Author Topic: Help with info about your Rhodes!  (Read 24415 times)

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« on: December 07, 2007, 08:18:07 PM »
Hi guys!  I’ve been meaning to do this for some time, and finally got around to creating a survey for production data on your Rhodes.  Basically, I’m trying to compile all data about Rhodes piano transitions, from Serial numbers which we don’t have a master list of, down to what kind of latches are on your case.  It's a shame that these records aren't available to us, and the only means to know is to gather it ourselves.  There’s so much to be gained from lists created from this data to post on the main site – for example, someone wanting to buy a Rhodes on ebay with a serial number listed, but no date code - and wants to know what they're getting.  Someone that wants to buy a Rhodes and wants factory lighter action.  Buying a hardshell case lid that will fit your piano.  Also great for someone that wants to make sure their Rhodes is original and not frankensteined.  The end goal is to have a usable timeline reference for us all.

I have 2 different surveys up here, one for Stage and a separate one for Suitcase Pianos.  I’ll have one for PianoBasses and student models up soon.  If you know your way around your Rhodes it could take you around 15 mins or less.  I understand that the Rhodes is very often modified or changed around from its original factory specs, but hopefully with a huge bank of info from pianos around the same time, inconsistencies would be apparent.  I appreciate any info you can help me out with about your Rhodes.  Also, if anyone can post on other forums, for example the yahoo groups - I'd love to invite them to fill this out as well.  Thanks for all your help!

-Ben

Offline Mark II

  • Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2007, 04:01:51 AM »
awesome work, bjammerz !
And all the pictures taken, A+.
Let's see how far we will get here.

Mark II
Rhodes Stage 73 Mark II 1980 / modified Peterson Suitcase Preamp

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 12:07:39 PM »
If the survey is too long for some people and you're not interested in taking time to do all the specifics, please just respond with the date codes and serial number at the top only (listed as basic info) and skip the rest.  The serial numbers and codes are really the most important of it all.  Thanks again!

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2008, 01:50:17 PM »
I'm still putting together a full timeline of production for Rhodes pianos, anyone that can fill out the survey to help with some points of interested again is greatly appreciated, thanks to all!

Pianos of particular interest:

anything pre-1974
early 1975 - hammers
early to mid 1977 - amps
mid-late 1979 - Mark 1 or Mk 2 transition
Any Mk2 especially '83s

Thanks again everyone!

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2008, 04:48:35 PM »
As an update, some interesting facts that have been confirmed from my search through all the Rhodes production.  My spreadsheet is coming together with a good range of serial numbers, date codes, and production info with picture backup to confirm, so hopefully in the coming year I'll have a good base by which we can see what is in each Rhodes:

1)  From start to finish a Rhodes took roughly at least 3 months to make it out of the factory.  On one particular Rhodes, The inside of the case is dated December 18th 1973, the harp start date of the Rhodes is 0474 (Jan/Feb), and completion date is usually 4 weeks later but roughly spans 2-10 weeks later.

2)  Hybrid wood hammers are in a 2375 Rhodes, meaning the all plastic hammer transition was closer to Mid year 1975, around June.

3)  All Mark IIs made in 1980 have wood keys.  Wood keys on a Rhodes dated 0981, white plastic on a Rhodes dated 1881, plastic keys were introduced sometime after March 1981.

4)  Beginning sometime in 1971, the Stage pianos were referred to on the badge as Mark 1A, Latest Mark 1A date I have is 0672.  This means the 88 was introduced sometime after Feb 1 1972 as the name of models "stage 73" and "stage 88" had to be used to differentiate an 88 key set.
 
5)  When 1970 stage pianos came out they used different rear leg ends where the crossbraces attach, compared to the standard set.  Also used 3 hinges for the case lid on the back.

6)  The 4 pin preamp and amp were used all the way up until late 1977, roughly October '77 around 40th week.

7)  Not all Black grilled suitcase pianos have legs that fold out flush to the edge of the speaker cabinet.  This was introduced sometime around 4078, Oct '78.

8 )  Not all 1973 Rhodes pianos had Full skirt Rounded Keycaps.  They introduced the now-looking-yellow 2 piece caps very late 1973, earliest date of these keys for me is 4973 ~December.

9)  Though I don't know what the initials TBJ stand for (or the purpose really, if it was for parts lists), it refers to the keyset model (seventy three, eighty eight, fifty four, etc).  TBJ numbers are the same on all Mark I 73 keysets, whether it's a stage or a suitcase: 010254.  Mark I 88 models have a different number: 010459.  Then, Mark 2 introduced new TBJ numbers for 73 (017249), 88 (017250), and 54 (017281) keysets.  If anyone can help me out with a TBJ number from a piano bass before 1979.  Late piano bases labeled 23646TBJ.

10)  Piano basses were still being sold in the Mk1 style when the Mk2 models were introduced.  The earliest Mk2 I have on record is 4879.  I have one bass confirmed dated 5079 that was completed (sold after) 20th week of 1980.  I do have a strange PianoBass dated 2982 but it has a lot of red flags (gold "Rhodes" badge, red date, old fender rail logo) which means I can't confirm if it's legit or not.

The only point of discussion would be that the start date on the harp isn't the "Date" of a transition - for example, if the harp dated 1881 has white plastic keys, maybe the transition took place before18th week of 1981because it looks as though the factory built the chassis before the harp was started.  However, In my opinion the transition date should really be according to the harp completion date, as we've seen rare cases where harps that are started say 1677 sit around for upto 6 months before they're paired with a box and completed in 4677.  In this case, the start date shows it should have a 4pin suitcase amp, but when completed it was paired with a 5pin amp.  The only problem is that completion dates are tougher to come by, so hopefully serial numbers will help here.

The only real challenge is to get everything all together onto one easy-to-read sheet or timeline.  Hopefully when this spreadsheet is posted, there'll be no more buying "keys that don't match," or "Whoops the top I bought doesn't fit."  Or having to ask an ebayer "What's the date code you only listed a serial number" and you'll be buying exactly the Rhodes you want.

Offline Mattia

  • Sparkletop
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
    • http://www.bsharp.it
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2008, 05:12:57 AM »
BJ, you're doin' a really great job! Sorry I still haven't posted my data, as soon as I have a little time to open my Rhodes, I'll do it.

Bye,
Mattia

1979 Mark I Suitcase 88
Hammond B3
Leslie 760

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2008, 03:36:36 PM »
See, here's why harp start date codes aren't the best:

Here is a satellite 88 on ebay.  The start date in the upper right is 4474 according to the guy.  This should group it as a "Fender" Rhodes before the label change.  However, it has Rhodes only labels.  The harp completion date is 7th week of 1975, obviously when it would have Rhodes labels.  So it's a grey area without all the info :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230221851131&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2008, 04:24:31 PM »
Here is a very rough compilation of data from about 200 Rhodes.  Serial Number, year of piano, start date, some end dates, model, and some comments (and some of my notes way off on the right).  It's not organized and sorted 100% as it takes a long time to do it properly, and every time I add a new one it messes things up.

Unfortunately, the serial numbers are not in the sequential order I was hoping for.  They're relatively close to start/end dates, but not entirely perfect to the number.  I'm not sure how it worked, for example how the factory workers went about stamping the badges, if a shift had a certain range of numbers so none would duplicate, and therefore a serial group are a certain date range etc etc.  I guess it wouldn't matter that they were in order as the serial is more for the customer's purchase in relation with the Rhodes company.  Harp swapping wouldn't matter as when you swap a harp, the dates and badge still go with each other.

Anyhow, it's a start to a long process.  I'm hoping as I add more pianos things might narrow down or appear differently as 200 pianos among thousands isn't yet a good representation.  I'll make a list so far of what facts result from this later.  Some might find this beginning excel sheet interesting, any corrections or comments let me know.

http://triadsmusic.com/rhodesserials1.htm

Offline pcola_rhodes

  • Fiesta Red
  • **
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2008, 03:01:22 PM »
how interesting...my rhodes in on your list.  just curious to know how you got the info...
1979 MK I Suitcase 73
1980 MK II Stage 73 w/Suitcase Preamp
Janus I Speaker
Fender Twin Reverb Reissue

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 03:54:20 PM »
possibly ebay auction.  If a serial number / date code is displayed I take it for my own records of production parts on the piano.  

Serial number etc. wouldn't be able to be used maliciously at this point in time as there's no company to honor a warranty etc. but if you'd like it removed let me know.  Thanks!

Offline Mark II

  • Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 1202
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 03:57:20 PM »
he's got that magic chrystal ball.
I am still waiting for my numbers of saturday night lottery

greeting

keep replaying myself but it has to be said more then once: awesome work, Ben

kind regards

Mark II
Rhodes Stage 73 Mark II 1980 / modified Peterson Suitcase Preamp

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2008, 04:01:46 PM »
Thanks!



...   12-14-27-55-89

HAHA.

Offline pcola_rhodes

  • Fiesta Red
  • **
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2008, 04:04:29 PM »
that's right, i forgot the ebay seller displayed the serial # on the auction.

i was going to submit the info, but i was surprised when i saw it was already there :)  keep up the good work!
1979 MK I Suitcase 73
1980 MK II Stage 73 w/Suitcase Preamp
Janus I Speaker
Fender Twin Reverb Reissue

Offline jim

  • Mark I
  • ****
  • Posts: 743
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/cyberjimpatterson
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2008, 05:37:04 PM »
Ben that data sheet is beautiful. i want a big poster of it for my wall.


oh with pictures!!! how cool would that be!?

like those posters they make with "instruments of the orchestra" but ALL rhodes pianos.

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2008, 06:41:57 PM »
Maybe!  And then a poster of charcoal drawings of Rhodes artists in a circle, like the "circle-of-4ths" style classical composers.


Offline martin

  • Mark I
  • ****
  • Posts: 159
    • View Profile
    • http://soundcloud.com/user1354663
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2008, 05:45:28 AM »
bjammerz, from what you said above about the date code regarding the fender rhodes/rhodes change over, i'm not sure if '74 was the change over, i have a 1973 "Rhodes" with plastic hammers, which seems strange.
'77 stage rhodes mark 1>'73 traynor ygl3a mark III>'60's selmer pa100sv>Wurly200a>Nord Stage Compact>hh ma100>1x12 fane twin cone speaker>smartlight pa>2xhz speakers>selmer pa100>Samson Auro D210 active pa cab

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2008, 12:15:47 PM »
Hey Martin!  Yes it does seem strange.  At this point I have narrowed down the all-plastic hammers to 1975, and the service manual as well states there is a change in the later part of '75.  

What this means maybe is that someone has swapped a harp out of an earlier rhodes on your piano.  The body might be from 1976 say, with a 1973 harp.  All the date codes, serial number, everything of course is on the harp so that makes it difficult to judge :)

If you'd like to upload pics of the Rhodes, I can tell you if this has happened.  Besides the basic exterior shot, Make sure to take a pic of the keycaps up close, of the keybed inside (where the keys are punch-numbered), and of the sides of the Rhodes where the latches and hinges are.  One of the harp's date codes too just for fun.  

Thanks for checking in!

Offline nord3

  • Pre-Piano
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
suitcase 88 just purchased
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2008, 08:33:06 PM »
Hi, I see everyones knowledge of Rhodes on this site, and being a new owner of a used one, I have some questions to ask. First off I know it is a suitcase 88, but having trouble with dating it. According to that question survey you posted, the harp production date is 50  85 in like a greenish blue stamp with alot of space
between the first 2 and last 2 digits. Then the end date is 0664 (bottom right) next to the gold bagde with "rhodes"logo. The tbj is 010459.
So I am totally confused but thinking maybe that something is not original?
She playes awesome and in perfect tune so I know someone took good
care of her. Is it possible someone changed the part with the top stamp of
"50  85" ( cause i dont think its from 1985)  If you need, I can probably send some pictures.
thanks
christine

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2008, 03:49:26 PM »
Hi Christine!  I'd love additional pictures of your "85" date.  There was a time when the dating was incorrectly marked for 1975.  A span of pianos was made with the date ending in "85" when it was supposed to be 75.  As seen below:



Probably as simple as a worker not checking his stamping.

your 0664 date says the piano was finished 6th week of 1976, meaning a pickup rail date of 50 "75" would make sense.  Also, the greenish-blueish stamping is also indicative of a piano before 1976.  So your Rhodes is definitely from the late '75 early 1976 era.

Offline nord3

  • Pre-Piano
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2008, 06:37:28 PM »
I am so happy to here the news about the year stamp problem! I will definately
take some photos and put them on. I think its really in great shape considering
the year and the price I paid. Being in New York, these dont come cheap. Thanks so much for your quick response! I am really motivated now to find out
more about it, but playing it is the best part. I have it hooked up to my pa system for now because the amp doesnt seem to be working. It has a loud hum and is very distorted. But amazingly enough, it is in perfect tune and a few sticky keys have seemed to work themselves out (with alittle help).
So I'll be posting some photos. Thanks again,
christine

Offline nord3

  • Pre-Piano
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
photos my 1976
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2008, 07:50:48 PM »
http://images.kodakgallery.com/photos4942/1/93/81/99/13/1/113998193112_0_ALB.jpg
http://images.kodakgallery.com/photos4942/1/93/81/99/13/7/713998193112_0_ALB.jpg
http://images.kodakgallery.com/photos4942/1/93/81/99/13/3/313998193112_0_ALB.jpg

I TRIED TO UPLOAD THESE PHOTOS, BUT COULD NOT GET IT TO WORK. CLICK ON THE ABOVE LINKS. ........ I TRIED MY BEST TO ZOOM INTO ALL THE NUMBERS WITH MY CAMERA, BUT AS I GOT CLOSER, IT GOT TOO BLURRY. I WILL TRY MORE WITH ANOTHER CAMERA.  CAN YOU SEE THE NUMBERS STAMPED IN THE LAST PHOTO - THEY ARE ONLY ON THE FIRST TWO? I ALSO TOOK THE COVER OFF THE AMP, MAYBE I COULD DATE THE POTS.
WOULD LOVE ANY HELP.
CHRISTINE
CHRISTINE

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2008, 05:56:40 PM »
Yes this is a definitely late-1975 early 1976.  Besides the finish date which confirms, the harp is resting ontop of a metal frame in the last picture, introduced after Sept. 1975.

Offline keysandslots

  • Mark I
  • ****
  • Posts: 231
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2008, 05:08:38 PM »
My Stage 88 was purchased in the fall of 1974, information is as follows:

On the harp - 3355
s/n - 50210
Model - Stage 88
Keys - wood
Hammers - plastic

Photos:





I have no idea what all this means of course.

Randy
Some of my stuff can be checked out at tune and tune and CD and even tune

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2008, 08:44:47 PM »
Thanks Randy!  If the serial numbers did follow the order with no exceptions it should mean that your piano is the 210th Rhodes with plastic hammers, and a metal support frame for the harp instead of wood blocks.  

Thanks for posting the finish date of 33rd week 1975, day 5.
I'm guessing then that the faded blue stamp in the upper right hand corner of the harp is 2975?  Helps to narrow the window!  Thanks!

Offline keysandslots

  • Mark I
  • ****
  • Posts: 231
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2008, 09:47:28 PM »
I didn't even notice that blue stamp, good eyes!  Thanks for the information, and it is 2975.

The part I don't understand is that the piano was purchased in 1974, October I think.  I was 16, just joined a rock band and my mom bought the Rhodes for me.  I was classically trained so I wanted an 88, and it was the first 88 key Rhodes that particular store (Sparling and Maurice in Downsview, Ontario) had ever sold.

I had the warranty card in my hands a few months ago after doing some cleaning up of some old records but now I can't remember where I put it.

Randy
Some of my stuff can be checked out at tune and tune and CD and even tune

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2008, 04:41:11 PM »
Hmm, that is pretty strange.  Just going by the stamps on the piano, it says it was completed on August 15th, 1975.  This is the 33rd week of 1975, day 5 being Friday.  A handy online calendar:

http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/index.html?year=1975&country=1

It would make sense for it to be sold in the fall of 1975... maybe check again, or if you see the warranty card - I'd be very interested.  Thanks again!

Offline hammertime

  • Fiesta Red
  • **
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
I have acquired two Rhodes 1974 Stage 73 + a mint 3363
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2009, 06:54:47 PM »
The 1974 Mark 1 Stage 73 has the hybrid hammers. The action is real tight...almost factory still. It came from a middle school..barely used. It was like opening a time capsule. Tolex is shot..so is hardware. But the keys and all hardware are there..looks like it needs grommets only,  I am thinking of making this my "keeper" Rhodes and parting with 1975 of same style. UNLESS there is something inherently bad about the 1974 units. Any advice on coveted years or models in the 1970s..or 80s even?

Next...can anyone helop me put a value on a very well kept Rhodes Electronic Piano..made by ARP I have read..commonly called the "four voice".. the 3363 model...What can it be worth? I don't see any for sale anywhere.

I hope that I posted this in the right place. If not, please forgive me.
I am just one last thing from having this thing in tip top shape. One last thing. Awww yeah.

Offline bjammerz

  • MIDI Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2009, 07:12:04 PM »
sadly because the 3363 isn't an actual Rhodes, the value just isn't there.  I commonly see them for sale anywhere from $100-$300 ish (of course people ask more but they're not sold).

If you do have the legs from it though, you can sell them separately on ebay as "rhodes legs" as that part is the same, and get a good buck for them.

Offline hammertime

  • Fiesta Red
  • **
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
I have gathered all of the salvagables on a 3363
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2009, 07:38:02 PM »
Salvagables form an Rhodes/ARP 3363

Rhodes legs and crossbars $125-$255
 
Case clips and corners and strap handles are worth llike $65.00 if you bought on other sites.
 
THEN, maybe, you have the working piano that you can still sell in tolex bottom case with no corners.
 
Lastly.. the compartment lid where the legs go....a lot of people loose them.. you could sell that. it can be cut down to fit a Stage 73
 
AND.. if you have a bag for the legs.. you are filthy rich.

Thanks for answering me. I am going to use my 3363 parts to complete my missing latches and strap handles and legs on my other projects,

I wish I could find someone wanting to trade my 3363 minus all hardware, but still in the tolex case..for a nice sustain pedal and push rod for a stage 73. Even without the pushrod.

Anyone interested?
I am just one last thing from having this thing in tip top shape. One last thing. Awww yeah.

Offline roger barcelona

  • Fiesta Red
  • **
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
Help with info about your Rhodes!
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2009, 01:47:46 AM »
Hi bjammerz,

I have a stage piano with janus system. Original set of legs.bag...

Stamped on the harp 3578
serial number K 735370
010254 TBJ
no more numbers...
is this an strange model?