Student Model/Suitcase Hybrid Build

[Ben Bove]

This sure is great work, thanks for the posts.

[voltergeist]

This sure is great work, thanks for the posts.

Thanks, Ben!

[voltergeist]

Wasn't happy with the flat black on birch for the shelf edging, so I removed it, replaced it with oak edging, and sprayed gloss black with clear coats to match the trim on the back.

[voltergeist]

The iron-on edging is pretty easy to work with, and fairly forgiving, btw.  For the radii, I used a heat gun to warm up the glue before sticking to the edge, rather than using an iron.  The iron I used on the straight runs.  It seems to stick well, but it's also easy to remove just by re-heating. 

I suspect getting the (walnut) edging around the power supply cutout will be a bit tricker, but I'm not too worried about it.  Walnut edging is on order but hasn't shown up yet, so that will have to wait a bit.

[voltergeist]

That looks excellent, really enjoy watching these posts.

Thanks!  I hope I'm contributing something to the collective knowledge base, and I'm glad you're enjoying the show.  It's nice to share with people who geek out on this stuff as much as I do.

[voltergeist]

Shelf edging after re-do and power supply mounted.

[Alan Lenhoff]

You do amazing work!  Hope you do a video playing it once it's done.

Alan

[voltergeist]

You do amazing work!  Hope you do a video playing it once it's done.

Alan

Thanks!  I'll definately post some demo videos when the time comes, though hopefully the demo will be by a better player than myself. 

[voltergeist]

Thinking I may change my plans as to what to do with the "Input".  I can run all the wiring internally, so what to do with that hole has been a question.  I'm thinking now of installing a jewel light, probably with an LED to keep brightness under control.  I'm entertaining the idea of fitting the tremolo LFO indicator LED's (it's got a VV Stereo Vibe pre-amp) inside the jewel, thinking maybe one would be able to see the LED's ping-ponging through the lens.  Those LED's are solid-on when the trem is off, and they ping-pong when trem is on, so they would double as power indicators and LFO rate indicators.  If that actually worked, it would solve my aesthetics problem with the hole and add some cool functionality.  Really, I don't think it's a question of *if* it would work, but rather a question of how much effort (ie custom parts and/or fabrication) it would take to make it work.

I plan to have two 1/4" jacks in the LH cheek block either way, and instead of making them line outs (which are already present on the power supply), I'll make them stereo inserts.  With inserts in the block, one would have easy access for patching in rack effects.  That would pretty much complete the package - mono instrument-level in/outs on the rail, stereo line-level inserts in the cheek block, and stereo line-outs on the power supply. 

[voltergeist]

Oddly, no one has pointed out the most vexing problem: How to pick it up?

Originally there were cutouts in the back panel for lifting, but I did not incorporate them into the new rear baffle for various reasons.  My tentative plan is to build handle rails onto the sides, and build new walnut or machined aluminum feet with integrated casters, like a Wurli 214. 

This configuration is not meant to sit against a wall, and any studio or performance space (or anyone else who might own it) would want it to be easy to move around and comfortable to pick up, so easy lifting and rolling are essential for practicality.  Adding handles and wheels is easy enough; doing it in a way that works aesthetically will be the trick.

These are the casters I ordered for it:
https://www.grainger.com/product/SHEPHERD-CASTER-Swivel-Stem-Caster-w-Brake-3ENV8

[David Aubke]

Dude, forty bucks a pop! They look cool though.

[voltergeist]

Dude, forty bucks a pop! They look cool though.

Yeah, I know, right?  Once you start to stack up requirements (sufficient loading spec, wheel height, locking mech, stem type, metal housing, quality wheel, acceptable color, etc) the options get slimmer, and you're just thankful to find something that works.  So, the price hurt, but I was happy to find a good quality caster that looks decent and meets the other reqs.  Never expected this project to be cheap, quick, or easy, so no disappointment there.

[Alan Lenhoff]

Just curious, watching all the time, effort, ingenuity, money and love going into this project: Are you building this for your own use?  Or is this something you plan to sell? 

(If the latter, I sure hope the buyer appreciates the transformation you've done.)

Alan

[voltergeist]

Just curious, watching all the time, effort, ingenuity, money and love going into this project: Are you building this for your own use?  Or is this something you plan to sell? 

(If the latter, I sure hope the buyer appreciates the transformation you've done.)

Alan

A little of both.  I'm building it as if it were for me, but planning to sell it when it's done.  I'm not trying to make a living doing this stuff, and it's not a commission, so I have the luxury of just doing things the way I want them done without worrying about how much labor is involved or even the overall cost (within reason).  For me, it's all about bringing an idea to fruition.  Awesomeness for the sake of awesomeness.

Finding someone with the desire, use case, and cash for an instrument like this will likely be challenging (to say the least).  Pretty much a subset of a subset of a subset.  I'm cognizant of the fact that the KMC is not well known, even among Rhodes enthusiasts.  The number of people who could look at this piano, realize the extent, quality, and implications of the modifications, and say, "That's the perfect Rhodes for me!" is probably vanishingly small.  But hope springs eternal.  At VV labor rates, it would probably cost over $10,000 to build this thing, so there's no way the price will be anything but a total fucking steal.  I'll be lucky to make back my cost, and there's no hope of making back my labor, but that doesn't bother me. 

Hopefully this project will also serve as a demonstration of a KMC's potential, and provide a gold-standard example for others considering similar modifications.  Maybe it will save a few KMC's from the dumpster. 

I look at it like writing music.  I write it for me, and hope someone likes it- maybe even enough to buy it.  And like I said before, if no one wants to buy it, then oh well, I'll just be stuck with the world's most awesome KMC.  Don't cry for me, Argentina.

[David Aubke]

I'm not trying to make a living doing this stuff, and it's not a commission, so I have the luxury of just doing things the way I want them done

Hey, that's my business model too.

If you're also obsessive, you may be interested in my new shop management software.
http://www.shadetreekeys.com/ShopChart/doc/shop_chart.xhtml

The goal was to develop something that would allow me to track costs as accurately as possible with as little bookkeeping overhead as possible. It's still in Alpha which is why I haven't really announced it but you mentioned costs so...

[Alan Lenhoff]

For me, it's all about bringing an idea to fruition.  Awesomeness for the sake of awesomeness.

How cool!  I wish I had the time and skills to do this myself.  I'm cheering you on!

Alan

[voltergeist]

Walnut edging.

[voltergeist]

Relocating the power supply 4 - pin connector to the top of the chassis...

[voltergeist]

[voltergeist]

[voltergeist]

[voltergeist]

The banding adhesive needs 24 hours to cure before applying finish.

[voltergeist]

Built a connector mount to run the 4-pin cable internally.

[voltergeist]

Finished buffing the keys.

[David Aubke]

If you're also obsessive, you may be interested in my new shop management software.
http://www.shadetreekeys.com/ShopChart/doc/shop_chart.xhtml

The public version of ShopChart records visitors' IP addresses and browser user agent information - nothing personally identifiable, just the same stuff every web server records. Does someone here run CentOS?

Sorry for the off-topic tangent but I'm really curious if one of you folks is running that as your desktop operating system.

[sean]

Uh oh.  That was me.  What did I break?


I run CentOS... not exactly updated, but not too old and unpatched.


# uname -a
Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.18-194.32.1.el5 #1 SMP Wed Jan 5 17:53:09 EST 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

Sean

[David Aubke]

Uh oh.  That was me.  What did I break?


I run CentOS... not exactly updated, but not too old and unpatched.


# uname -a
Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.18-194.32.1.el5 #1 SMP Wed Jan 5 17:53:09 EST 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

Sean

You are hard-core. Although it looks like Cent merged with RedHat or something so maybe it's become more user-friendly.
Nothing broke, I really just wondered who the uber-geek was around here.

Did you see this story a few years back?
http://www.jaduncan.com/2006/03/centos-vs-city-of-tuttle.html

That's one of my favorites.

[sean]

CentOS is 100% RedHat Linux.  It is the RedHat software with the logos and branding removed, and the expensive pay-for license replaced with the open-source free license.

I have it running on an ancient Toshiba Tecra laptop, and it is remarkably stable and dependable.

Sean

[voltergeist]

Threadjacked!

[David Aubke]

I knew it was based on RH but now that you mention it, I remember hearing that it became the free version after RedHat began charging.

And now, back to voltergeist's most excellent conversion story.

Sorry voltergeist.

[PaulBuck]

"At VV labor rates, it would probably cost over $10,000 to build this thing."

That's a discouraging number.  My KMC project is on hold until I have the funds.  I was hoping I could get VV to do the work but 10K is WAAAAAAY over my budget.

[voltergeist]

"At VV labor rates, it would probably cost over $10,000 to build this thing."

That's a discouraging number.  My KMC project is on hold until I have the funds.  I was hoping I could get VV to do the work but 10K is WAAAAAAY over my budget.

Well, you should probably let VV give you their estimate for exactly what you want to do. 

That number is based on the hours I'll have into this particular project in its entirety (which could end up being well over 100 hours), which includes a complete overhaul of the piano, key buffing, custom machining, etc.  It shouldn't take 100 hours just to do the suitcase conversion part of it.  Plus, things like cutting back the shelf added labor but wasn't essential for the conversion. 

So, depending on what exactly you want to do, it could be done in less than 100 hours, perhaps much less.

[voltergeist]

Got the wheels today.  Pretty sure I've figured out how to mount them, too, more or less- without changing the overall height of the piano, still providing good ground clearance, and looking good doing it.

[David Aubke]

OK, coupla questions:
1. It looks like the keyframe is narrower than what I'm familiar with. The harp supports sit right at the edge. Is that an optical illusion or the way KMCs (and suitcases?) are built?

2. What's the red arrow-lookin' thing on the table?

[voltergeist]

OK, coupla questions:
1. It looks like the keyframe is narrower than what I'm familiar with. The harp supports sit right at the edge. Is that an optical illusion or the way KMCs (and suitcases?) are built?

2. What's the red arrow-lookin' thing on the table?

1.  This is an early Mk1, and I'm not familiar with really early Mk1's, so I'm not sure what is 'normal' for this vintage.  Notice it only has one metal support on the harp, for example, rather than two as on every other Mk1 I've seen.  There's no date stamp I can find.  The frame of the keybed is attached to the cabinet differently than a stage or suitcase; two big screws come in at an angle from the back, and many small screws are used across the balance rail and guide rail. 

2.  The red arrow thing is a magnetic holder thingy for metal fabrication.  Holds your workpieces for welding.  In this case, it was my magnetic caster wheel holder-upper.

[voltergeist]

First draft of plan b for caster brackets.  Plan A was to mount the back wheels on the back, but if I did that it would be too wide to fit through a 27" door. 

There are four copies of each wheel on each corner to help visualize the wheel rotation.

[voltergeist]

Put finish on the Walnut edging and refined the wheel bracket design.  I angled the rear bracket to get the wheel closer to the back edge for better stability.  I'll probably try a different design for the front bracket to avoid overlapping the baffle.

[voltergeist]

Redesigned the player-side brackets.  Moved them away from the side panels for mounting reasons.  About ready to start cutting.

[voltergeist]

[voltergeist]

I need to order more metal, but it's enough to get started.

[Student Rhodes]

Hey V,
Are you sure you want to put casters on this thing?
I know it's nice to be able to move something around, but isn't this piano going to pretty much be a "set and forget" type of piece?
It seems like a lot of work, and not without its cosmetic downside, to be able to move this with slightly more ease than slipping a dolly under it ever six years when it needs to move.
Just sayin...
I'm sure you have your reasons.  I'll shut up now
Ray

[voltergeist]

Hey V,
Are you sure you want to put casters on this thing?
I know it's nice to be able to move something around, but isn't this piano going to pretty much be a "set and forget" type of piece?
It seems like a lot of work, and not without its cosmetic downside, to be able to move this with slightly more ease than slipping a dolly under it ever six years when it needs to move.
Just sayin...
I'm sure you have your reasons.  I'll shut up now
Ray

Fair points, but it's not intended to be a 'set-it-and-forget-it' type piece.  If I were intending it to get put in once place and not moved for six years, I wouldn't have put speakers on the back.  I'm designing it to maximize practicality in a studio or performance space.  A typical KMC sits in one place because a) it's heavy and hard to move, and b) 15W into a single 10" speaker with no tremolo isn't exactly a dream for recording or performance.  A 4x12 KMC w/ 80W stereo and tremolo that's easy to move around, on the other hand, is pretty much ideal for a recording studio or performance space. 

As for perceived cosmetic downside, yes, it would look cleaner without wheels.  The guiding principle is making it practical as attractively as possible, not making it attractive as practically as possible.  Dig?  There are a number of design constraints that dictate the look of the wheel brackets.  Such as:

1. Don't change overall height of the keybed/damper pedal above the floor
2. Fit through 27" door
3. Mount to cabinet where machine screws can be used (as opposed to wood screws)
4. Mounting screws attach from the outside (so the cabinet doesn't have to be opened up to tighten the brackets, if they ever come loose)
5. Maximize ground clearance
6. Maintain stability in all directions of travel
7. Keep mounting screws accessible (for ease of maintenance, if mounting screws become loose, or brackets need to be removed for any reason)
8. Wheel brackets shouldn't interfere with removal of baffles
9. Adequate strength, proper load distribution
10. Buildable within reasonable time with tools on hand
11. Whatever I'm forgetting

Obviously there are a lot of constraints in that list.  So, yeah, my goal is to meet the above requirements in an aesthetically pleasing way, and that is not a trivial task. 

[sean]

Is it too late to switch to http://www.rockler.com/workbench-caster-kit-4-pack ??

I think there are other lever-activated casters out there on the internet too.

Sean

[David Aubke]

Is it too late to switch to http://www.rockler.com/workbench-caster-kit-4-pack ??

I think there are other lever-activated casters out there on the internet too.

Sean

You know, just yesterday I snapped a picture of casters like this on my table saw. I was going to suggest the same thing but then thought "actually, these don't work that well." Perhaps the ones you linked to perform better but mine only barely lift the unit off the ground and the legs still catch and shudder when you're trying to move it around.

[Student Rhodes]

Obviously there are a lot of constraints in that list.  So, yeah, my goal is to meet the above requirements in an aesthetically pleasing way, and that is not a trivial task.

...And I'm sure you will.
I look forward to seeing the completed piece.  I'm enjoying watching all your restorations and mod jobs.
Thanks,
Ray

[voltergeist]

Is it too late to switch to http://www.rockler.com/workbench-caster-kit-4-pack ??

I think there are other lever-activated casters out there on the internet too.

Sean

I had considered those and decided against them.

[voltergeist]

Wheel bracket machining in progress.

[voltergeist]

[voltergeist]

Finally finished basic machining on the wheel brackets.  Still need to cut the curves on the side pieces, but the structure is done.  The holes for the casters are cut and threaded, too. 

[voltergeist]

Cutting curves.  Made MDF template, cut close to the line on the band saw, cut to the template on the router, then finished up on the oscillating spindle sander.