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A Different Kind of Effect Pedal Question

Started by ImNotDedYet, March 01, 2015, 11:39:47 AM

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ImNotDedYet


I've finally gotten my 74 MKI Stage 73 in the shape I'd like it, tuned, etc.  It's a beautiful thing really.

Now I'm looking to explore different pedal options.  I know there's a bunch of threads out there on best pedals, must-have effects.  I've read them all - countless times.  So now I have a list of pedals that I'm thinking are the ones I'd like to get as well as a rough priority for getting them and I'd just like to bounce this list across you guys and gals to see if there's anything I'm missing or haven't considered.

But first, a bit about my current setup: Rhodes -> Moogerfooger MF-108M (Clusterflux for stereo/mono chorus) -> Moogerfooger MF-104M SD (usually bypassed, but sometimes I like the delay on the Rhodes) -> Blackstar HT-5R amp. (or sometimes I DI into my DAW after the effects chain and mess with some amp sims I have)  I also have a few synths that I like to use, so ability for the effects to be used by the synths is important.  I'd also prefer more of the classic Rhodes effect sounds, but definitely like the ability to get crazy, particularly when using effects with synths.

Tremolo - Fulltone Supa-Trem2 supposedly comes close to the classic suitcase/Twin Verb trem and has stereo capabilities

Phaser - Moogerfooger MF-103.  I was originally thinking EHX Small Stone nano, but further research claimed that the Small Stone's newer versions aren't necessarily as good as the older, vintage pedals.  I heard a Phase 90/Small Stone comparison and really preferred the small stone sound - it didn't appear to kill the sound/tone as much as the Phase 90 and seemed more musical to me.  The MF-103 which offers so many more capabilities for a phaser, but also CV possibilities, (I also have a CP-251 for further CV/expression pedal mayhem with effects) multiple phase staging options and according to everyone who's used it, one of the best sounding phasers out there.

Ring Mod - Moogerfooger MF-102.  But, ring mods can also do Tremolo!  Does anyone have experience with the tremolo on a ring mod, and even though it's not stereo, would the MF-102 (or another good quality ring mod) be capable of producing a classic sounding trem?  If a good ring mod could get me the classic trem sound, the ring mod would jump up my priority list as I'd really like my first additional pedal to be tremolo.

Wah - heard a CryBaby vs a Morley Power Wah and really loved the tone of the Morley.  It seemed more saturated in the low end and more agressive in the wah capabilities.  I've also tried out a friend's CryBaby 535Q which was nice, but really brought a lot of noise into the signal.  Apparently the Morley's are supposed to be less noisy?

So, can anyone weigh in on the classic Rhodes tremolo capabilities of ring mods?  And would anyone say any of these pedals really aren't an option I should consider and why?

Thanks in advance, but really thanks for all the great info I've found here.  A true wealth of knowledge for those of us in love with these classic instruments.

little george

The last tremolo option from ehx:

http://www.ehx.com/products/super-pulsar

Any opinions about it?

I would also love to ear a rhodes throught one of these:

http://www.ehx.com/products/b9

http://www.ehx.com/products/c9

They also seem to have a new uni-vibe:

http://www.ehx.com/products/good-vibes

Too many pedals I´d like to get, too little money  :'(

Ledbetter

Your choices seem top of the line to me, but I prefer stereo effects, and a compressor.  My current effect path is:

Mono to
BBE Compressor
Deluxe Cry Baby ("vintage"--controls volume when wah is not engaged)
EHX Stereo Pulsar tremelo
Then stereo to
TC Electronics Nova Modulator (stereo chorus/phaser/flanger/vibrato)
TC Electronics Nova (stereo) Reverb

I also have a TCE Nova Delay, but don't use it much for the Rhodes.  I guess the reverb is enough for me.  Good luck!

K-man

 Hi,
I'm on the same part of the Rhodes road. Now I building my effects from scrap - MXR phase 90, Boss chorus CE-2 and Maestro stage phaser.  8)
1973 Rhodes 73 stage
Hammond x-2 + Elka leslie
2014 Kurzweil MPS 20

mvanmanen

The MF-102 is a beautiful pedal and I love to use it for out-there sounds. And I can definitely get a nice tremolo out of it....but I have one amp with a really choppy tremolo that is just awesome with rhodes that the MF-102 cannot duplicate. I bet the Fulltone Supa-Trem2 could do it based on the reviews.  ;)

The Fulltone Supa-Trem2 is on my want list. And stereo tremolo would be sweet.
If you do get the Supa-Trem2 please let us know what you think about it.
Wurlitzer 200a
Wurlitzer 145
Fender Rhodes (1966, 1971, 1975)
Hohner Clavinet Pianet Duo
Hohner Clavinet D6s and C
Hohner Pianet T
Hohner Pianet N and Combo Pianet
Hammond B3

ImNotDedYet

Quote from: mvanmanen on March 01, 2015, 09:55:50 PM
The MF-102 is a beautiful pedal and I love to use it for out-there sounds. And I can definitely get a nice tremolo out of it....but I have one amp with a really choppy tremolo that is just awesome with rhodes that the MF-102 cannot duplicate. I bet the Fulltone Supa-Trem2 could do it based on the reviews.  ;)

The Fulltone Supa-Trem2 is on my want list. And stereo tremolo would be sweet.
If you do get the Supa-Trem2 please let us know what you think about it.

Will do my friend.  You just convinced me 4% of the remaining 5% that while it would be nice to kill two birds with one stone, (ring mod) it's just likely not going to be the trem I'm looking for.  Sweetwater has them at a bit of a discount right now.

Stereo anything is really so much better, maybe not in a mixed song.  And there are some other really nice stereo trem options out there.  This one just seems to check all the boxes for me.

I'll be putting the 102 on the list, probably after the 103 at this point.

mvanmanen

Moog makes some really nice pedals. But it is nice to mix it up a little with some different pedal builders.
I have a Fulltone OCD that I use on my Wurlitzer. Fulltone makes great stuff.
Good Luck!
Wurlitzer 200a
Wurlitzer 145
Fender Rhodes (1966, 1971, 1975)
Hohner Clavinet Pianet Duo
Hohner Clavinet D6s and C
Hohner Pianet T
Hohner Pianet N and Combo Pianet
Hammond B3

Student Rhodes

#7
Quote from: ImNotDedYet on March 01, 2015, 11:39:47 AM
Tremolo - Fulltone Supa-Trem2 supposedly comes close to the classic suitcase/Twin Verb trem and has stereo capabilities

I have one of these, and I'm pretty happy with it when used with my Stage model. I do have a couple Suitcase models, and to my ears the Supa-Trem2 is sonically much like the Peterson, only with more range and options, which enables it to also recreate the hard Ping-Pong of a Janus (MkII) preamp.

The SupaTrem2 is not cheap though... If I recall, they're somewhere between two hundred and two-fifty?  I've paid less fore an actual Peterson pre-amp.

I might have bought the EH pedal, had I not seen the SupaTrem2 in a youtube video first. I suspect the less expensive Electro Harmonix Pulsar is equally adept at recreating the Peterson wave form, and may even have more features.  However, my experience with EH pedals is that their build quality isn't as rugged as the Fulltone.   

Student Rhodes

Quote from: K-man on March 01, 2015, 05:37:16 PM
Hi,
I'm on the same part of the Rhodes road. Now I building my effects from scrap - MXR phase 90, Boss chorus CE-2 and Maestro stage phaser8)

I am in LOVE with the Maestro Stage Phaser.  I bought one about two years ago, because I liked user friendly foot controls.   It also gets a great Leslie type ramp up, and wind down.  Everyone that's heard it invariably has an "oh, that's how a Phaser should sound..." epiphany.   

However, I think after all these years, it can be a matter of finding a "good one."   (Much like the Rhodes itself, I guess)  I've bought three others, and none quite has the character of the first one I bought.  My main concern is a noisiness issue.   They do have additional internal trim pots that may be the answer to my concerns, but I just haven't made the time to tear into them and sort it all out.

These pedals require finding or creating an adaptor that will fit into the 1/8" mini-plug jack, but I've found the AC adaptor seems to add noise (i.e. hummm) to the signal, so I've been running them on batteries.     

Here's a great demo of one that really lays out all the features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEVGqDBGCHY

I'm still planning on hunting down a Small Stone Phaser, like I used on my guitar thirty years ago, mostly because I love how they sound in this, perhaps my favorite Rhodes clip on youtube.  I've watched/listened to it at least fifty times.   It's a good sounding pedal on an absolutely fabulous sounding Rhodes.    Tell me what you think of this guy's keys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD1nBPRZc-I

Ray

Ledbetter

#9
Regarding the EHX Stereo Pulsar, I think it's solidly built and a very good deal at $90.  But I see that the Supa Trem 2 has tap tempo, better chips (optical) and "true stereo" whatever that is.  It's $275, but probably worth checking out.

ImNotDedYet

Quote from: mvanmanen on March 01, 2015, 10:48:16 PM
Moog makes some really nice pedals. But it is nice to mix it up a little with some different pedal builders.
I have a Fulltone OCD that I use on my Wurlitzer. Fulltone makes great stuff.
Good Luck!

You are correct on that.  A little diversity may actually do me some good.  The Ring Mod by Moogerfooger has been on my must-have list for a while now, but I could see trying the EHX Small Stone.  It's cheap after all in case I'm not into it.

I've heard good things about the OCD.

Quote from: Student Rhodes on March 01, 2015, 11:44:55 PM
Quote from: ImNotDedYet on March 01, 2015, 11:39:47 AM
Tremolo - Fulltone Supa-Trem2 supposedly comes close to the classic suitcase/Twin Verb trem and has stereo capabilities

I have one of these, and I'm pretty happy with it when used with my Stage model. I do have a couple Suitcase models, and to my ears the Supa-Trem2 is sonically much like the Peterson, only with more range and options, which enables it to also recreate the hard Ping-Pong of a Janus (MkII) preamp.

The SupaTrem2 is not cheap though... If I recall, they're somewhere between two hundred and two-fifty?  I've paid less fore an actual Peterson pre-amp.

Yeah, they're not cheap.  I've found them online for anywhere between $220 (Sweetwater, although they're out of stock currently) and $270.  They don't seem to be sold used at all. (don't even see many of the Supa Trem first versions used)

Thx for the confirmation on it though.  Looks like that will do the trick here in the very near future.

Quote from: Student Rhodes on March 02, 2015, 12:04:15 AM
Quote from: K-man on March 01, 2015, 05:37:16 PM
Hi,
I'm on the same part of the Rhodes road. Now I building my effects from scrap - MXR phase 90, Boss chorus CE-2 and Maestro stage phaser8)

I am in LOVE with the Maestro Stage Phaser.  I bought one about two years ago, because I liked user friendly foot controls.   It also gets a great Leslie type ramp up, and wind down.  Everyone that's heard it invariably has an "oh, that's how a Phaser should sound..." epiphany.   

However, I think after all these years, it can be a matter of finding a "good one."   (Much like the Rhodes itself, I guess)  I've bought three others, and none quite has the character of the first one I bought.  My main concern is a noisiness issue.   They do have additional internal trim pots that may be the answer to my concerns, but I just haven't made the time to tear into them and sort it all out.

Here's a great demo of one that really lays out all the features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEVGqDBGCHY

I'm still planning on hunting down a Small Stone Phaser, like I used on my guitar thirty years ago, mostly because I love how they sound in this, perhaps my favorite Rhodes clip on youtube.  I've watched/listened to it at least fifty times.   It's a good sounding pedal on an absolutely fabulous sounding Rhodes.    Tell me what you think of this guy's keys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD1nBPRZc-I

Ray


Holy crud that Maestro sounds amazing!  And I thought I had it all figured out...

But seriously, I'm going to try out a Small Stone Nano.  That last video and others today have convinced me.  They just sound so musical with a Rhodes, and cheap enough to give a try without breaking the bank.

Quote from: Ledbetter on March 02, 2015, 03:08:34 PM
Regarding the EHX Stereo Pulsar, I think it's solidly built and a very good deal at $90.  But I see that the Supa Trem 2 has tap tempo, better chips (optical) and "true stereo" whatever that is.  It's $275, but probably worth checking out.

Sweetwater at $220 when they get them in.  I'll probably pull the trigger this week for a Small Stone Nano (I really hate batteries) and the Supa Trem 2.

Ledbetter

If you're going to order a Supa Trm 2, consider pre-ordering to lock in the current Sweetwater price.

mvanmanen

Wurlitzer 200a
Wurlitzer 145
Fender Rhodes (1966, 1971, 1975)
Hohner Clavinet Pianet Duo
Hohner Clavinet D6s and C
Hohner Pianet T
Hohner Pianet N and Combo Pianet
Hammond B3

Student Rhodes

Quote from: Ledbetter on March 02, 2015, 03:08:34 PM
Regarding the EHX Stereo Pulsar, I think it's solidly built and a very good deal at $90.  But I see that the Supa Trem 2 has tap tempo, better chips (optical) and "true stereo" whatever that is.  It's $275, but probably worth checking out.

I was speaking of the stereo version of the Pulsar, with tap function.  They're in the similar $200 range from sweetwater on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/electro-harmonix-Super-Pulsar-Stereo-Tap-Tremolo-Pedal-EHX-Stereo-Tap-Tremolo-/261785809988?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf3a67444

ImNotDedYet

Small Stone Nano and Supa Trem 2 have been ordered, although who knows when the Supa Trem will arrive since Sweetwater's waiting for new stock of it.

And I checked guitareffectscanada to support our Northern brothers and sisters.  But they only seemed to have the Supa Trem1, not the 2.

mvanmanen

http://guitareffectscanada.com/effects/effects-by-brand/fulltone/supa-trem-st2?cPath=117_1_171&

just in case someone else wants to support Canada  :o

oops they only ship Fulltone within Canada...nevermind
Wurlitzer 200a
Wurlitzer 145
Fender Rhodes (1966, 1971, 1975)
Hohner Clavinet Pianet Duo
Hohner Clavinet D6s and C
Hohner Pianet T
Hohner Pianet N and Combo Pianet
Hammond B3

ImNotDedYet

Quote from: mvanmanen on March 03, 2015, 05:49:56 PM
http://guitareffectscanada.com/effects/effects-by-brand/fulltone/supa-trem-st2?cPath=117_1_171&

just in case someone else wants to support Canada  :o

oops they only ship Fulltone within Canada...nevermind

Hmmm...not sure why that didn't show up when I searched for it.  That's a great price.

Unfortunately, there's also a line at the bottom that says they're agreement with Fulltone only allows them to ship within Canada.  Canucks only in the case of Fulltone pedals.

voltergeist

My $.02 is that any tremolo without tap tempo is obsolete and undesirable.
Restored or Overhauled: '65 A-model Sparkletop, '78 Suitcase 73, early-'75 Satellite 88, '81 MkII Stage 73, two '77 Mk1 Stage 73's, '74 Mk1 Stage 73
In Progress: 1 '78 Suitcase (2nd one), '70 KMC - Customized w/ Peterson 4x12, '77 Wurli 270

yorgatron

Quote from: voltergeist on March 05, 2015, 11:15:52 AM
My $.02 is that any tremolo without tap tempo is obsolete and undesirable.

that's about what it's worth.  ::)

tap tempo is just a gimmick to me.
Wurlitzer 206A, Hohner String Performer, Clavinet/Pianet Duo, C, D6, Elka X-55, RMI 300A Electra-Piano & Harpsichord, Korg MS-10 & MiniKorg, Arp Axxe & Omni I.
sold; Wurlitzer 200, Vox Jaguar, 4 different Fender/Rhodes Stage 73, Yamaha CP-35/SK-30 x 2, Elka Rhapsody 490, RMI 368X Electra-Piano & Harpsichord, Korg DW-8000, Baldwin Electropiano, Roland HS-60, Roland Alpha Juno 2, Roland Juno 6, Clavinet II, Moog Prodigy, Moog Opus 3, ARP Quartet.

voltergeist

#19
Quote from: yorgatron on March 05, 2015, 03:09:50 PM
Quote from: voltergeist on March 05, 2015, 11:15:52 AM
My $.02 is that any tremolo without tap tempo is obsolete and undesirable.

that's about what it's worth.  ::)

tap tempo is just a gimmick to me.

Of course it's just an opinion with its well-known commonality [mod removed].  That said, tremolo is a rhythmic effect, and the ability to match the rhythm of the effect with the rhythm of the music on the fly qualifies as much more than a gimmick in my mind.  The same applies to delay. 

Note: Moderator removed profanity.
Restored or Overhauled: '65 A-model Sparkletop, '78 Suitcase 73, early-'75 Satellite 88, '81 MkII Stage 73, two '77 Mk1 Stage 73's, '74 Mk1 Stage 73
In Progress: 1 '78 Suitcase (2nd one), '70 KMC - Customized w/ Peterson 4x12, '77 Wurli 270

voltergeist

Now that I think about it, a tap tempo switch input on the cheek block would be a nice addition to an aftermarket Rhodes preamp.  (Hint hint, VV)
Restored or Overhauled: '65 A-model Sparkletop, '78 Suitcase 73, early-'75 Satellite 88, '81 MkII Stage 73, two '77 Mk1 Stage 73's, '74 Mk1 Stage 73
In Progress: 1 '78 Suitcase (2nd one), '70 KMC - Customized w/ Peterson 4x12, '77 Wurli 270

Ledbetter

#21
Tap tempo's a gimmick unless you want use the tremolo musically.  Ever tried to synchronize a tremolo?  (Maybe not . . Just a "gimmick.").

mvanmanen

#22
I do not tend to use tap tempo functions on my pedals.
This is not to say that tap tempo is not valuable.
But rather that tremolo and other effect pedals can be used musically without tap tempo.

::)
Wurlitzer 200a
Wurlitzer 145
Fender Rhodes (1966, 1971, 1975)
Hohner Clavinet Pianet Duo
Hohner Clavinet D6s and C
Hohner Pianet T
Hohner Pianet N and Combo Pianet
Hammond B3

Student Rhodes

I have the SupaTrem2, which has tap tempo.  I found it most interesting with the square wave setting, where there's a hard left right ping pong effect.  However I don't think I'll be using it that much as the sine wave function is smoother and reduces any/all metronomic shortcomings.   I don't know if I'd go so far as to say trem without tap function is unusable or undesirable.  The Peterson preamp is certainly not known for it's clocklike accuracy, and people have been making pretty musical stuff with it for decades.  Rather than being purely rhythmic, it has more of a textural function that I still treasure.

Oh, and guys, can we not turn the forum into yet another place to swear at strangers?  I'm pretty sure the allusion to the adage about opinions being like assholes -- everybody has one, was not meant to be a personal attack.


voltergeist

I was attempting to make a humorous reference to the saying, "Opinions are like assholes: everybody's got one."  That was referring to the opinion I myself expressed, and was not directed at you in any way, Yorgatron.

Granted, "undesirable" was probably going too far.  Certainly non-tap tempo tremolo is better than no tremolo, and still useful.   "Obsolete", I think, is defensible.  All things being equal (say two pedals with equally good sound, capabilities, and price), I see no reason to choose a non-tap tempo tremolo over a tap tempo tremolo.  In the past, tap tempo was not even an option.  People used delays for a long time without tap tempo, but nevertheless, delays got better with tap tempo.  Delay can also be used texturally and unsynced, but the ability to tempo-sync is a major improvement.

So, yeah, I still maintain that non-tap tempo tremolo is obsolete.  What is obsolete is not necessarily useless, and the desirability of obsolete but still useful equipment is a personal judgement. 
Restored or Overhauled: '65 A-model Sparkletop, '78 Suitcase 73, early-'75 Satellite 88, '81 MkII Stage 73, two '77 Mk1 Stage 73's, '74 Mk1 Stage 73
In Progress: 1 '78 Suitcase (2nd one), '70 KMC - Customized w/ Peterson 4x12, '77 Wurli 270

jean-papa

Hi Guys,
My favorite phaser is the ehx stereo polyphase, the smooth sound of the small stone, but with many more possibilities to adjust the effect to what you like.
Here's a link for Maestro Lovers:
http://www.heptode.com/fr/pedale_d_effet_virtuoso.php
I brought an amp that needed some fixing to this guy, he's very good.
I think you can buy this pedal in The US(Heptode is near Paris...Where I live)
www.youtube.com/TheMrJeanPapa
www.soundcloud.com/jean-pa

JVC (Mark V)

I've been using MXR M159 Stereo Tremolo Pedal.

ImNotDedYet

Quote from: jean-papa on March 06, 2015, 11:22:35 AM
Hi Guys,
My favorite phaser is the ehx stereo polyphase, the smooth sound of the small stone, but with many more possibilities to adjust the effect to what you like.
Here's a link for Maestro Lovers:
http://www.heptode.com/fr/pedale_d_effet_virtuoso.php
I brought an amp that needed some fixing to this guy, he's very good.
I think you can buy this pedal in The US(Heptode is near Paris...Where I live)

I hadn't realized they had a stereo version.  You had to post this the day I received my Small Stone Nano.  ;)

Which, by the way is beautiful!  I'm really loving it.

ImNotDedYet

Quote from: mvanmanen on March 01, 2015, 09:55:50 PM
The MF-102 is a beautiful pedal and I love to use it for out-there sounds. And I can definitely get a nice tremolo out of it....but I have one amp with a really choppy tremolo that is just awesome with rhodes that the MF-102 cannot duplicate. I bet the Fulltone Supa-Trem2 could do it based on the reviews.  ;)

The Fulltone Supa-Trem2 is on my want list. And stereo tremolo would be sweet.
If you do get the Supa-Trem2 please let us know what you think about it.

I did pull the trigger on the Supa Trem2 with Sweetwater while it was $220.  It was out of stock and recently went up to $240 while it was still out of stock.  I finally received it late last week.  I've only been able to give it a bit of a go as I got a few other things and have to get everythign "connected," but it really is a beautiful pedal.    I have no regrets at all, in fact this one's a keeper to me.  Not only is the tone beautiful, but the options with the different waves, phase of the stereo and tap tempo make this a really well rounded pedal given my limited playing.

This being my first Sweetwater experience, I must say their customer service is excellent.  They called immediately to say it was out of stock, called and emailed immediately when they finally received them and shipped it, shipped 2 day and it came with a little bag of candy.  ;)

Julian

Quote from: ImNotDedYet on March 06, 2015, 07:58:41 PM
  You had to post this the day I received my Small Stone Nano.  ;)

Which, by the way is beautiful!  I'm really loving it.

Agreed! I've also just purchased a Small Stone & am very very pleased with it  ;D

I have to admit, personally I'm not a huge fan of pedals or effects of any sort, as I really love a 'pure' Rhodes for its natural tone... *but* the Small Stone definitely adds a different kind of 'loveliness'  :)

Regards,

Julian

Babysquid

Quote from: Ledbetter on March 02, 2015, 03:08:34 PM
"true stereo" whatever that is.
It has stereo inputs as well as stereo outputs so you can run a stereo source into it.