Author Topic: Loud high overtones (zing) and release noise (Rhodes Mark I 73 1973)  (Read 136 times)

Offline levdave

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Hi here !

I'm still working to make my Rhodes better, and I don't know how to improve these two points :

-A "zing" overtone on some notes (the whole left side of the keyboard, and particularly F2)
When I change the voicing or echapment, no change on this sound...

-A release noise, probably caused by the damper, but I can't stop it even after bending the damper bar...

I made this video to show the issues : https://youtu.be/cPlca4JjpDk

(The last changes I made to my Rhodes where : 1) change all grommets and screws 2) set micros further from the tines (I wanted to improve dynamic range))

Thank you in advance for any suggestion, about these two points, or even about any other thing you would notice watching the video !!

  David.

Offline sean

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Re: Loud high overtones (zing) and release noise (Rhodes Mark I 73 1973)
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 12:33:28 AM »

The release noise is definitely the dampers.  It is hard to eliminate, but endless fiddling with the dampers may lessen it somewhat.  Good luck with that.

If your 1973 piano still has the original damper felts, they may be shaped like tooth roots instead of sugar cubes.  The sides of the V-shaped damper felts are usually somewhat misshapen and have lost their original stiff upper lip.  You can try to trim off the sides of the damper felts on those two most-offending notes.  I honestly don't think that this will help.  But stare at it long enough to see if the sides of the damper felt are touching the tine at all... they don't.

The noise is created by the tine flapping against the damper as it succumbs to the felt embrace (the dampers actually bounce off the tine before they settle).
I personally have come to like this noise and feel that it is part of the Rhodes sound.  We even have an endearing name for the sound - "Damper Kiss."


I think the high overtones that are bothering you are a factor of old hardened hammer tips, the strikeline (which controls where the hammer hits the tine), and a bit of dumb luck.  Maybe softer tips wouldn't produce the pingy overtone.  Maybe a different strikeline wouldn't produce the pingy overtone.  Maybe a longer or shorter tine (with the tuning spring in a slightly different position) wouldn't produce the same pingy overtone.  Maybe.

The strikeline is the easiest thing to modify.  You can try sliding the left side of the harp a tiny bit forward or back and see if the overtone goes away (or changes to a more harmonically pleasing note).  It may be hard to find a new strikeline that fixes your problem and still makes the other notes sound right.  See the striking line section of the repair manual at http://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/ch4.html#4-5

That overtone that is bothering you is a pretty subtle resonance.  You might get lucky by installing new grommets on that note, or try adding weight to the tonebar (try a binder clip temporarily).  Replacing the tine might work out too, but that is expensive. 


Sean

Offline levdave

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Re: Loud high overtones (zing) and release noise (Rhodes Mark I 73 1973)
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2017, 05:13:37 PM »
Thank you Sean for your rich reply and great advices !!  :)

I changed dampers and hammer tips last year.

Old dampers were bigger in the middle of the keyboard. Maybe should I try to glue again old big dampers on notes with big "Release kiss" ? (I keep each original part of the Rhodes ;-)

About the high overtone, I just tried to change the strikeline, but it had no effect infortunatly... and no more when adding weight :-(

Thanks again !!

I'll keep you informed :-)

Offline Bassics101

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Re: Loud high overtones (zing) and release noise (Rhodes Mark I 73 1973)
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2017, 07:24:20 PM »
It seems that this noise only occurs on release of the key.  The replacements damper felts are thinner, as you say, and I’ve seen that too when I got replacements for my 73. I never put them on.   Betting those replacements are not doing there job,  Since you have the originals, take one or two and put the old thicker felts back on and see if the sound  goes away.

Offline Bassics101

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Re: Loud high overtones (zing) and release noise (Rhodes Mark I 73 1973)
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 01:45:57 PM »
One other thought, could the damper arm tension be low? Not sure why that would be on all lower keys, but just another suggestion.

Offline levdave

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Re: Loud high overtones (zing) and release noise (Rhodes Mark I 73 1973)
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 02:04:13 PM »
One other thought, could the damper arm tension be low? Not sure why that would be on all lower keys, but just another suggestion.

Do you mean that the damper arm tension could de the origin of the high overtones ?

Offline Bassics101

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Re: Loud high overtones (zing) and release noise (Rhodes Mark I 73 1973)
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 03:59:33 PM »
I was referring to the release noise.  That buzz when the key is released.  Am I hearing the wrong thing. When the key is released, the damper pad comes back into contact with the tine.  It sounds to me like when that happens, there is a buzzing sound, and that could be that the felt is not dampening the tine.  You should be able to see that by watching the tine as you release the note.  Hope I’m answering the right question.

Offline levdave

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Re: Loud high overtones (zing) and release noise (Rhodes Mark I 73 1973)
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 04:08:44 PM »
OK, yes we are speaking about the same thing 😉. But in your previous post you spoke about "all lower keys", witch is the area where the overtone is produced, that's why I was confuse... 😀

Offline squarebubble

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Re: Loud high overtones (zing) and release noise (Rhodes Mark I 73 1973)
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 04:46:50 PM »
I wonder if what you are describing is a chirping sound by not having the damper felts orientated the correct way. Have you checked if the felts are orientated with the grain horizontal? They should all be horizontal except the trebles.