Restoring a 1974 88-key Rhodes (my findings)

[VintageGearFreak]

Hi guys, long time lurker on this forum.
I'm currently restoring a 88-key 1974 Rhodes with parts from Vintage Vibe and I wanted to share some of my findings (some of you probably know all of this, but I thought I'd go ahead anyway, just to get it out).

When I got the Rhodes the keys were extremely sluggish, but it had a nice sound and a fair amount of bark but bad sustain.

So what I've done so far is: Ease keys, change grommets, set escapement, change damper felts and look at the action (bump-mod).

Easing keys was no problem, the keys were very sluggish before but now they move freely.

Changing grommets: This really improved the sustain, but requires resetting escapement. Also look out for tines that are not centered horizontally. Ideally the tine should be straight under the tone bar but I've found that sometimes a slight offset in either direction can work better. It's balance between getting it straight under the tone bar and pointing right at the pickup. If it's off center from the pickup getting volume out of that note can be tricky.

Escapement: Easy enough to set but a few millimeters can really make a difference on how the whole keyboard feels. I started with about 1cm escapement and gradually increased it uniformly.

Damper felts: The older damper felts were wobbly and not firm at all, so I decided to change these. Removing the felts can put some stress on the damper and misalign it, so I had to keep it mind to take it easy. After the new felts were installed the dampers needed adjusting, but I later figured out that this is related to the action of the hammer.

Bump-mod: This Rhodes needs the bump about 3-4mm from the edge of the key pedestal (closest to the player). I've understood that the bump has two functions: accelerate the hammer blow by reducing friction and acting as a brake after the hammer has hit the tine. It needs to brake the hammer in order to avoid double striking. After bump-mod the dampers need to be adjusted again as there will be less damper bounce and reducing the tension of the damper can result in even nicer action. But make sure the damper felt is still contacting the tine properly. Messing with the tension can make the sustain pedal response uneven, so I need to take care of that.

I have not changed hammer tips, it's still using the original ones and I like the tone of these. I'm usually a bit disappointed when I change tips, so unless they are grooved or hardened I don't touch them. If anything these have gone a bit soft.

I'm still working on this piano, will attempt to put a sound example up when it's done. Still struggling with getting the dampers to work properly and a few bad notes to fix still (most likely need to replace the tines on those) but it's shaping up nicely.

So that's pretty much it.. thanks!

--Mike

[AFeastOfFriends]

I think this is the fourth or fifth 88 from 74 to pop up on here since I joined. Did they just make a whole to of them that year? I haven't really seen any 88s from other years either.

Also, welcome to the forum. Sounds like you've done some great work. I'm hoping to get my 88 up to speed soon, but I always seem to buy a new keyboard or something any time I get some cash.

[VintageGearFreak]

Thanks! Couldn't have done most of it without reading this forum.. I've had the '74 88-key for 5 years now but picked up a '79 73-key a few months ago. Kind of inspired me to finish restoring the 88. The 1974 has more bark to it but I haven't investigated the voicing possibilities on the 1979 yet..

I think I've seen 88-keys from various years, I've seen a Mk2 88-key at least. But the 73 is probably much more popular, the extra weight makes the 88 more cumbersome and you don't really need the extreme upper/lower notes most of the time.

--Mike

[VintageGearFreak]

So I ended up shimming the harp another 2mm. I shimmed 2mm after the key pedestal mod to compensate for the raised hammers but it was still not feeling quite right. After shimming it another 2mm (for a total of 4mm) the action feels much better and this thing packs some bite now!

Problem now is the upper notes don't have sufficient damping and the damper felts get caught in the pickups. I tried shimming the felts but its hard to get them in the exact right angle.

[Ben Bove]

If you're sliding the pickups much closer and the felts are colliding, you can carefully clip the front of the felts at a 45 degree angle, so that there's room for the pickup but still enough felt to stop the tine.

[Tine-E]

Greetings to fellow Rhodes enthusiasts!

A newbie here who would like to learn from the seniors of the site and hopefully be able to contribute a neophyte's 2 cents learning so far from refurbishing a recently acquired 1972 Eighty Eight Stage.

After jumping into the action and a month's (+) work whilst consulting available online videos, here is yet to be fine-tuned ... the 88:


Photo R1: In Red Bronco/Levant; the black accessories cover was untouched

R3: External hardware powder–coated semi-gloss black

R4: All bottom hardware powder-coated as well except for the chromed legs/braces

R5: Keys and cheek block buffed/polished

R6: Harp frame re-zinc-chromated (bright), looks bluish (aluminum-ish)

R7: Tines: rubbed clean (they were quite oxide-free as were tonebars);
Oxides were on the sound-generator (tine holder) as white powdery coating and dark spots but rather few.
Off-center tines were aligned to tonebars and likewise squared on the tips with a circular grinder
New felts, bridle straps, neoprene hammer tips plus miracle mod kit from VV

R8: Cleaned namerail; installed back check shown; pots were still great but I opted to install precision pots- 50k tone and 10k volume; made an erroneous cap change from the original 1.0mfd to a 0.0047mfd thus killing the lows; but then corrected it to a 0.047mfd resulting to both open with crisp highs but maintaining a good bass foundation

I had never touched a Rhodes before nor had thorough familiarity with the sound. At the moment am getting wet on the fineries of the action – dampers, sustain concerns, vibrating dampers, 2nd strike (using the term in a previous post) quality, etc.

From multiple (dozen++?) attempts at voicing, I believe I have been able to squeeze out quick barking keys at not so strong key depressions; and while lightly played, the bells ring especially on the higher octaves.

Now there's more than meets the eye here...especially on the feel and play (action) which I wish to post hereafter.

Hope I contributed some with this debut post.

Luis

[Rob A]

Welcome to the boards. That's beautiful work. I think the 88 is more difficult to voice and adjust than the 73, the extremes are harder to control. I've got no doubt you'll get it the way you like it.

[The Real MC]

Beautiful restoration job.

And that would be the first 88-key Rhodes I have seen with the early namerail.  And the tines are RAYMACS!

[David Aubke]

And the tines are RAYMACS!

Can you tell because of the taper, or lack thereof?

[Tine-E]

Beautiful restoration job.

And that would be the first 88-key Rhodes I have seen with the early namerail.  And the tines are RAYMACS!

Welcome to the boards. That's beautiful work. I think the 88 is more difficult to voice and adjust than the 73, the extremes are harder to control. I've got no doubt you'll get it the way you like it.

Thank you for the appreciation!!

Are those Raymac tines? How can one tell?

[The Real MC]

And the tines are RAYMACS!

Can you tell because of the taper, or lack thereof?

My sparkletop has raymacs, and a couple of keys have replacement non-raymac tines.

It's the thickness of the tine and the hefty tuning spring on the end of the tine.  Pretty obvious to the naked eye.

Raymacs were used up until the early 70s in early MkI pianos, guessing 1971 as my first Rhodes was a stage 73 made in 1972 and that did not have Raymacs.

[VintageGearFreak]

If you're sliding the pickups much closer and the felts are colliding, you can carefully clip the front of the felts at a 45 degree angle, so that there's room for the pickup but still enough felt to stop the tine.

Thanks for the tip! I'll try doing that.

[Tine-E]

VintageGearFreak,

I took the escapement measurements at both ends of the piano -

First key was a tad under 1/4" (6.35mm).

Extreme right was difficult to measure but an occular estimate would easily pin it to be under 1/16" (1.6mm).


I still have issues with the sustain pedal depressed causing many keys to also lightly dip. While the pedal depressed, successive strikes on the keys are choked (if that is the proper way to describe it).

[VintageGearFreak]

Thank you Tine-E..! I'll try to take some measurements of mine. Also planning to do a video overview which I will post here.

--Mike

[Fred]

I do not believe those are Raymac tines... Eighty Eights had heavier (or doubled) tuning springs on the first 7 tines to achieve such low pitch.

[The Real MC]

I do not believe those are Raymac tines... Eighty Eights had heavier (or doubled) tuning springs on the first 7 tines to achieve such low pitch.

I knew that, but look past the first seven and the tuning springs are heavy ones.  Also they all appear thicker than Torringtons.

[Fred]

  All appears consisent with a '72 to me... Try enlarging the jpeg titled "tines" and scroll all the way to the right... You will see the sharper taper of the tines where they meet the generator block.

  The latest Rhodes I've encountered with Raymacs was an early '70 suitcase 73. It had 1st generation "twisted steel" tonebars without the additional bend in the extreme bass that allows the later, more flexible tines to swing past the tonebar without hitting it. Really sweet tone. Slightly longer decay than a Silvertop, but with that quick Raymac attack. Think Stevie Wonder's "You Are the Sunshine of My Life"

[David Aubke]

the additional bend in the extreme bass that allows the later, more flexible tines to swing past the tonebar without hitting it.

There's a gem I hadn't picked up on yet. I assumed the extra bend was to help them reach lower pitches.

[The Real MC]

the additional bend in the extreme bass that allows the later, more flexible tines to swing past the tonebar without hitting it.

There's a gem I hadn't picked up on yet. I assumed the extra bend was to help them reach lower pitches.

Yep... The bends allowed the mass to be closer to the fundamental frequency, while preventing the tine from extending too far beyond the harp assembly.

[VintageGearFreak]

Some new discoveries: I've always thought the key dip on this Rhodes has been too shallow and have been trying to figure out how to fix this. Also the action has always been a bit sluggish even after doing the "miracle mod". So I tried shimming the action rail by inserting some thin washers. What I discovered is that this drops the hammers a bit and raises the keys but it didn't really improve the action. And the strikeline got messed up so I decided it wasn't worth it and went back to having no shims.

The other night I was experimenting with the action again and decided to take a look at the balance rail for the first time. My keys have always been level so I never felt the need to do anything about them, but I took one key out and started removing and adding paper shims to see how that affected the action. It did affect key height but wasn't really affecting the action much. Finally I took the felt washer out and it seemed kind of compressed. So I rolled it a but to fluff it up, put it back together with the original amount of paper washers and WOW! - this really made a difference! After fluffing felt that key sat 1-2mm higher than the surrounding keys.

I proceeded to do the rest of the keyboard and I can tell you guys the action problem is solved! The keyboard feels much more fluid now! The keys are sitting a bit uneven now so I'll have to even them out but the action is so much improved now.

Out of curiosity, I removed the miracle mod from some keys to see how they feel after refluffing the balance felt, and felt good even without the pedestal bump! I guess this is how the Rhodes felt when it was brand new. That said, the action is even better with the bumps so I put them back, but it's interesting to know that the action was _not_ that bad out of the factory even without the bumps.

--Mike