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Hi. Brand new to the forum.

I've started restoring an '81 (I think) 73 and hope to continue bringing other neglected pianos back to life.

http://www.shadetreekeys.com

Very Well Done Rhodes Info Blog!
thanks/giorgio

Hi all

I repaired myself here in Italy a mark I, now the piano sound almost fine and I'm pretty satisfied and also meverilled about the success.
Now, here attached a MP3 audio clip containing an improvisation; that's a soundcheck to test sustain pedal notes decays (I love so much):

http://solyaris4.altervista.org/soundcheck1502.mp3

Premising that:

a - I'm not a pianist, so sorry for bad playing

b - I know that notes are not perfectly in-tune (in the upper octaves) ...
I experienced not so easy to tune in the "right way" (despite I used a tuner...) probably that's a topic to start a part.

c - I realizing some notes (especially in the central octaves) sound "fake", despite the pick-up "seem" ok and the tine "seem" ok and of course I did regulations... so I concluded the illness is probably the case of "exausted tine"... isn't it ?


Your opinions:

1. Please let me know how you think generally about the sound quality ?

2. the pedal sustain / dumper seem to work fine, but I noted that when I quickly release the pedal after that many keys are pressed, I listen in the audio a mechanical "tonf" sound probably caused by the dumper sudden stop of tines vibrations ( by example listen at 2:36 , 3:25 ); it's this "tonf" normal / avoidable ?


Thanks to all in this forum for previous suggestions!
giorgio

I decided to bring back this thread, I was curious to know how did spaceduck and solyaris get on with their restorations? I'll start adding in mine on Sunday.

T

Hello

in facts I finished fase II restauration of my stage piano!
At the moment I'm satisfied by the result! generally every one of 73 notes sound pretty well now.

Here a two days ago sound check:
http://solyaris4.altervista.org/dumpeddelay.mp3

here two tracks of rhodes, passed on Digitech TSR24 5 sec delay patch...
please note I'm note a pianist, just a big lover of rhodes hypnotic sound ... possibly matching my music view ( http://solyaris.altervista.org ).

I retain it sound great!...Yes ...
1- some problems of lack of sustain on upper octaves ... (indeed lower octaves are amazing!)
2- and some problems here and there on the middle octaves where some very "hitted" seem to be affected of what I have see descibed as "exausted" tines syndrom ... possibly I'll detail this "minor" problem here in future.
3- Minor tuning difficulties especially on the two upper octave...


Even if I confess restauration have been hard. I do all by myself and I'm neither a pianist, neither a rhodes expert ...
and I thank you VINTAGEVIBE Video and all helped me here in this forum!!

Thanks to all!
giorgio

improvising...
just a sound check of restored rhodes;
two tracks overdub,
passing rhodes through a Digitech TSR24 delay patch programmed by myself.

http://solyaris4.altervista.org/dumpeddelay.mp3

ciao Fred

yes I replaced old screws and grommets with these in the vintagevibe kit:
realizing the substitution have been perfect!

BTW, I have to thanks You, at vintagevibe, for ALL your excellent youtube videos ;-)
you won't believe,  but I found genial that particular video that show how to repair the wood keys action,
moving a simple screwdriver in the holes ... really genialand so simple!!!
I just few hours I made my 73 keys all acting correctly in mechanical mouvement...

so thank you again ... !

my best regards
giorgio

ciao

grommets & screws replacement have been successul. Now the piano sound like this:
http://solyaris4.altervista.org/in%20a%20silent%20way.mp3
http://solyaris4.altervista.org/rhodes-soundcheck-0-Track%202.mp3



giorgio

beatiful animation ;-)
btw, myself I do not yet unserstood the reason why I love that sound ... I could say because it's at the same time a generator of "harmonic dissonaces" and "disharmonic consonances" :-)

Why Rhodes have a so magical, so magnetic sound ?
Please reply your feelings, technical or "philosophocal" reasons !

Pourquoi le Rhodes a un son si magique, si magnetique ?
Si vous plait disez votre raisons emotionelles, techniques  or "philofophiques"!

Perchè il Rhodes ha un suono così magico, così magnetico ?
Dite le vostre ragioni emozionali, tecniche o "filosofiche"!

mmhhh... not cheap but seem sound beautiful
thanks Spookyman for your suggestion...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaIfbt7gYCk

giorigo

Rob!  
Sweet digs here!  Thanks for turning me on to Jan and Mahavishnu Orchestra.. He really goes off!  I heard a little bit of their music before, but remember it being much more guitar driven.  I had no idea  the Rhodes was such a prominent part of the sound as it is in the clips you posted.  Thanks for sharing!!

yes... indeed Mahavishnu Orchestra have been my preferred band when I was 20 years old ;-)
The keyboardist Jan Hammer played almost only a Rhodes! if i'm not wrong; and that times I loved his style;
he pheraps copyied a bit the Corea's Return to Forever magnificences, but with his one great personality and sound I admit ...
but immo many of harmonic-frames and compositional ideas was by the leader, the guitarist John McLaughin! one of my preferred guitaris all times.

In my opinion, it's curious and sad to see that after Mahavishnu experience Jan played music more oriented to pop-rock ...
I mean music that I define banal ... I'm feel sorry to say ...
Also McLaughlin didn't achieved that "ascension" that I could imagined ...
I do not love music he play nowadays ...

My possible error his that I always think that an artist have to improve his art during his life ...
Experience tell me indeed that's rarely happen ...
What do you think about it ?

Anyway: the piece "down" is beatiful as was in the studio version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdAgjRWic4Y

Inner Mounting Flame have been a work that absolutely entusiasmed me: there is the Davis session experience and vast compositional lyrism...
rock-jazz in a more intelligent and less cunning compared to the Return to Forever last "decandent" works ...

my two cents
giorgio

Hi guys!  I've been meaning to do this for some time, and finally got around to creating a survey for production data on your Rhodes.  Basically, I'm trying to compile all data about Rhodes piano transitions, from Serial numbers which we don't have a master list of, down to what kind of latches are on your case.  It's a shame that these records aren't available to us, and the only means to know is to gather it ourselves.  There's so much to be gained from lists created from this data to post on the main site – for example, someone wanting to buy a Rhodes on ebay with a serial number listed, but no date code - and wants to know what they're getting.  Someone that wants to buy a Rhodes and wants factory lighter action.  Buying a hardshell case lid that will fit your piano.  Also great for someone that wants to make sure their Rhodes is original and not frankensteined.  The end goal is to have a usable timeline reference for us all.

I have 2 different surveys up here, one for Stage and a separate one for Suitcase Pianos.  I'll have one for PianoBasses and student models up soon.  If you know your way around your Rhodes it could take you around 15 mins or less.  I understand that the Rhodes is very often modified or changed around from its original factory specs, but hopefully with a huge bank of info from pianos around the same time, inconsistencies would be apparent.  I appreciate any info you can help me out with about your Rhodes.  Also, if anyone can post on other forums, for example the yahoo groups - I'd love to invite them to fill this out as well.  Thanks for all your help!

-Ben

Hi Ben
if I well understood your request:
here data of the piano I'm repairing:
Rhodes Stage Piano 73 Keys

SERIAL NO. K 744529
010254-TBJ 1079

the '79 instrument have been here in Italy for probably 20 years inside a humid cellar and before probably used in a session studio...
I have no more info ...



more info on my facebook dedicated photo-story:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2042940&id=1169037408&l=e46cea71c5

hope this help
giorgio

Yes Rob! I played your triades: they seem to me absolutely that played in the original piece!
fourths-chords bit-dissonant progression...
it's funny that a part the dissonant "loop", there is also "implicit" a kind of bluesy cadenza...
very interesting also the whole improvvisation on further progressions ...

many many thanks!:)
giorgio

You also get to decide if you want to replace the hammer tips.  If you want the mellower sound that non-hardened-by-age, not-old-and-crusty, not-grooved-and-damaged new hammer tips can give you, then see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUNQZuBX8Sk (I love the bandaid on his finger, and Leon Russell in the background at 2:20),
http://www.vintagevibe.com/p-458-rhodes-hammer-tips.aspx,
http://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/parts.php,
http://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/hammer-tips.php,
http://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/dyno-tips.php,

Thanks Sean for very detailed list!

I have two questions regarding hammer tips:

1. do you know if exist some video/audio  that sho difference amongs damaged/old tips versus new tips ?
I ask because I'm repairing a Mark I stage 1979 ... remained in cellar for more than 20 years...
probably also some tips have been ... bad ... changed: see:




in facts it not seem to me a big problem in final sound ... I'm probably worng ?

2. where I can puchase hammer tips replacement (73 keys) ? Vintagevibe seem to sell huge amount of these ...
probabluy indeed I would change only the really exausted tips ...

thanks
giorgio 

box set reissue of "The Complete In A Silent Way Sessions."

I see! good news! thanks(btw, I still have to try your triades )

Ciao Parisiano,
following letter I sent you in French, here I briefly reply in English;
please note I'm a begineer on Rhodes me too and I'm just doing a restoration on a Mark I:

After a few days, I realize that refurbishing this piano is not an easy game.

ah ah! Yes right, but please note that this instrument is built as a tank   panzer ... it's made by wood, alluminium, screw, few plastic and solenoids ... you can repair all! Harold Rhodes was a genius! ;-)

I have 4 pickups dead

no problem...:
more difficult / less cost saving solution:
I realized that usually ... it happen that the thin wire of solenoid decame broken at the end ... you need in this case to re-wrap and resolder the wire ... is not difficult but need patience to do it ... a friend of mine did for me once to demonstrate the point! He stated it's a problem of soldering that after 20/30 years "crash" ..  
faster / more expensive solution:
buy used pick-ups on ebay: I did this (11 pick.ups dead)

15-20 upper keys are making a big clank (mechanical noise), maybe hammers hitting dampers.

the same for me ...
I suspect it's usual a critical action in the highest octave in this sense...
I get better doing simple regulations of ton bar screws, pick-up nearness to tine ...

The 3 extreme top right tines are not vibrating when hit. Is it a workaround for this ?

mmhhh really no sound ? how you stated theses tines do not vibrate ? it's difficult to say because hide are hidden by ton bar ... ?!

The global sound of every keys is not satisfying me at all.

no problem: the answer is REGULATIONS / RESTAURATION of all mechanical parts:
my rhodes remained in a humid cellar for more than 20 years here in Italy ...
I got it as a block of RUSTY! no one key emitted sound ...
now ALL key emit a decent sound!

Same problem for the tines, even if aligned with the tone bars, they have tendancy to go on the left. It make problem for the damper felts to silent them correctly. Is it a workaround ?

I feel grommets/screw substitution would help avoid strange adrift movement of tone bar... I have to do that me too.

Some of the keys don't hit the tines as strong as the other does. Is it possible to set the piano to have a quicker or lighter action ?

I feel this is a question of escapement regulations ... thta simply mean: regulate the two screw of every tonebar...

Is it profitable to unmount every part of the piano to clean it up indepth ? Any use of unmounting the harp or the tone bars ?

clean in depth! bring out the rusty! absolutely yes!  

If so, where can I found the right order to mount everything back ?

I suggest a step-to-step approach ... let your mind know the mechanic...  ;-)

Is it possible to get a nice sounding Rhodes piano at the end (even if it take mounths no problem) ?  

believe me: the answer is YES!

I'm asking all these questions, cause I realize that all the parts I need (legs / pedal / pickups) will cost a respectable amount, and I don't want to make to much buying if the piano won't be able to play correctly at the end.

regarding legs, as I wrote you in the letter I found a mechanic laboratory in Genova (Italy) realized these under my instructions: if someone (in Italy) is interested to have legs substitute or other mechanical part broken repaired (in my case the sustain pedal) .. I could keep in touch with these very good artisans (inside the Univeristy of chemistry ??!!!!) realized all in few days and for a reasonable cost.
BTW, I realized that original 4 legs (+2) are important for stability of piano and to have a correct behaviours of sustain pedal...
original 4 legs system is a must immo. X supports have been a disaster for stability in my experience...

I hope this help .. please note I'm not a big expert and here there are a lot of very very Rhodes-skilled-guys

regards (from Italy)
giorgio

thanks Andi for your interesting notes about the tube sound... I see!

in fact at the moment I use an active DI box (not so magnificient probably), to go in my mixer (an old small Soundcraft Spirit folio)
"having to" boost the low level signal of a rhodes, with a ST2 Guyatone (a not-so-bad booster-compressor pedal for guitar); at the moment is better tha nothing

giorgio   

WOW! thanks a lot Rob!

reading your notes, it sound correct ... I mean I was possibly never able to detect; i'm not a pianist and my ear on detecting chords on rhodes is not so good ... indeed all chords on rhodes sound wright ;-)  

There are two guys playing, so transcribing this is a major effort.

yeah, Chick and Herbie... even if in the "introduction" of chords progression I can datect just one piano ... (it seem to me Chick style...) but I'm possibly wrong and in the entire piece there are absolutely two rhodes playing.

The organizing principle is the ambiguity between major and minor thirds throughout this tune(listen to Miles' solo).

mhhh... I presume they use a "mode" where major and minor third are noth present in the scale...

It is three bars long, which adds to the tension, since they repeat it and it forms a very long hemiola against the overall 4/4 feel and the two bar bass ostinato that eventually enters.

do not know what a hemiola is ... but you gived the idea ...

Thanks again! as soon I can I will try your suggestion! and I feedback!
giorgio

I just realized this partilly give the answer to point 2: http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=6114.0
anyway any more info / suggestion welcome: so what the better tuning method ?
thanks/ giorgio

premising that probably this is a topic already discussed ... eventually please forward me in a good thread.
Now, I finished "phase I" of my Rhodes mark I stage piano 73 keys restauration:
(all keys now "play") and I started a overall tuning; here my experience/premise:

I do not had good feeling with the tuning method suggested by the manual (put the harp vertically) ...
I got "fake" vibrations ... and I have difficulties to tuning with automatic tuner (I already use for my for guitars)
so I got better results just loosen the "internal" screw of tone bar, so moving the tine string with fingers ...that usually allow me a good overall exception with some problems that I expose here below and I ask your opinion / suggestion:

1. I have problems in tuning highest octave notes with the method above described is impossible, so I have to remove the tone bar completely
and the biggest problem is that tuning is "critical" also because spring are very narrow the end of the short lenght tine ... and a very small distance (less than a millimeter) change tuning of a semitone almost ...
there is some drawback / solution ?... that's normal that upper notes are so "critical" (not only in tuning but also in tone and sustain ...) ?

2. Considering that I used this cromatic guitar tuner: http://en.euroguitar.com/accessory/cort/e205/125074.html
It happen that ... suppose in the middle octaves (in the center of keyboard) every key alone seem well tuned (the tuner blink a green led telling that the note is in the correct tuning)

but playing chords:

it happen that sometime if I do "consonant" chords ... let consider just consonant triads like suppose A - C - E - G ... I got some "beats" ... I mean some little "detuning" of chord...

Is this dependent by the fact the tuner is possibly not so precise ? I need a a more precise tuner; maybe one with a Hertz-scale ?
there is some method to solve these tunings anomalies ?    

thanks for your patience reading my English so&so...
giorgio

Can I say Joe Sample ?

of course

BTW, just to possibly enjoy people here:
a Return To Forever rare recording: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f72L9oijJig&feature=fvw
with a superb (immo) Steve Gadd on drums... and great Stanley Clarke, as usual!


That for say that I Hate ... but also I Love... Chick Corea, a part some opinable adrift of Return to Forever project ...
I think his percussive way to play piano was a perfect match with the sound of Rhodes...:
in this recording the overdriven-percussive use of a (Fender) Rhodes is paroxistic; isn'it ?!


giorgio

Correct impedance matching basically ensures that the full tonal spectrum of the Rhodes makes it through. Impedance mismatch mostly causes a loss of high frequencies, making the sound dull.

Thanks... mmmhh... a bit off topic: in facts my rhodes is full of high frequencies and low frequencies too ... ;-) the problem is, in my restauration, to balance sound on the entire keyboard... even if I replaced pick-ups and clean tonebars/tines, do regulations ... I still have "problem" (but also a virtue in a cretain sense...) on the fact every note sound with his different "spectrum" ;-) ... but that's another topic ok.

Any other suggestions on preamps are welcome:
BTW, premising that I like TUBE sound ... at the moment my preferred choice in the above list is this device:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/studio_projects_vtb1.htm

just for my curiosity: a friend suggested to use a transistor preamp instead of a tube preamp to save money and maintain sound quality ...
he stated that cheap tube preamp are noise-generator ... ok... so I asked to him: "really?! what brand/model ?" .. no answer ...
so, my question is: there are good transistor preamp suitable for our use, in the Eurpean market ?

Generally speaking:
please  let me know "how" you put Rhodes in the mixer:
directly on the mixer ? with a DI box ? passing through a preamp and so to the mixer ? passing to an acoustoi amplifier and so to the mixer through a micro ? passing to a multieffect processor before or in the loop of the mixer ?

My possible choice is to use the same chain of my guitars: instrument -> (preamp / DI box) -> mixer (effect processors in the mixer loop)

giorgio

do you mean "using rhodes" I presume; my prefered here are: ... Chick Corea ... and of course Joe Zawinul ... 

hi all

when I was young ... I was obsessioned by this chord progression:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1MqKhBuAzo&feature=related

does someone could tell me what chords are ... i'm not a pianist, but I know jazz terminology ?

I mean the 6-steps piano bit-dissonant chord progressions, played on rhodes by Chick Corea (If I'm not wrong).

BTW, In a Silent way (the Joe Zawinul theme and all the album of course) is immo unequalled...

Last but not least, someone know what model of organ Joe played here ?

thanks
giorgio

thanks SWANG! any suggestion by users did screws/grommets replacement using vintagevibe kit?

Hi all

I'm restoring a 10-1979 Mark I, remained in a humid cellar for 20 years almost ...

Now, I got the vintagevibe screws/grommets replacement kit.
and I have few questions:

1. I noticed that these new grommets appear a bit "small" in the head-diameter / thin than original ones (see photo below, the new grommets are in the right)... these grommets are pheraps "less good / strong" than the originals... ?

2. screws supplyied in the kit appear to have a different screw thread that the original screws ... now I read in a vintagevibe explanantion that that these are slightly more thick and long to make more "grip" in the "used holes ...
BUT, I feel these a bit too much thick when I'm screw-in ... that's normal ? It's what planned ?

3. In the low octave (first 5/10 keys) the spring around the (keyboard side) screw is doubled (see photo below): I mean there are two springs twisted togheter ...
I presume this is to give a more hardiness / elastic power to the spring system... it's normal and I have to remount these as I found it ?
or this double-springs is useless with the new screws .. ?

Sorry, I suspect my English is a bit rough to explain clearly  this technicalities ... so I add some photos here below:









Anyway I thank you in advance fgor your suggestions.
giorgio

I own a Studio Projects VTB-1 preamp. I bought it because it was available to me cheap. (More or less why I buy any gear.) It's a unit that originally sold for around 200 USD, so maybe (or maybe not) a cut above the Behringer and Presonus entry level stuff that retailed around 50 USD. It's certainly well built.

I use it with my clav, not Rhodes, but I can post some Rhodes samples later on. I view the tube feature as an effect, no more no less. It has a blend knob that you can use to attain a mix of solid-state and "tube-effected solid state" tones. You'll find a bunch of tube guys posting rude things about it if you go reading reviews on the interweb--I just view it as an effect, not as the holy grail of tone or anything. If you like it it's good in my opinion. It has a balanced out, which for me is a crucial feature, and there's even an FX loop on it, although it's implemented as a TRS jack, so you have to build a cable to take advantage of it (instructions are in the manual). The FX loop is also kind of clever in that I can record the pre- and post- tube output simultaneously if I have the channels available.

Since we are talking input impedance these days, this unit lists 1.5Mohm for the Hi-Z input, an a switchable mic input that's 2000/300 ohms, so it's nice and flexible.  I have no complaints with mine.

Yes Rob!
it's interesting and in a range of price acceptable for me.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/studio_projects_vtb1.htm

it seem it have all good characteristics of other preamp here pointed out  ...

BTW, my opinion about tube controls: I like "tube" sound of course... in fact I associate in my mind the term "pream" with a tube pre-amplifier

thanks for the detailed info!
giorgio

You could also think about the SM Pro Audio TB101 oder TC01. They're not significantly better than the ART products but have a higher input impedance (1MΩ as opposed to 650kΩ if I remember correctly) and are only moderately more expensive.
Also, have a look at the M-Audio DMP3 – it's said to be one of the best in its price range.

Another idea would be to look out for a clean booster pedal, such as the MXR M133 Micro Amp.

thanks Andy

the SM Pro Audio TB101 ( http://www.smpalma.it/dettaglio.asp?id=947 ) and the TC01 (  http://www.thomann.de/gb/sm_pro_audio_tc01.htm )

feel good ... a bit of EQ and compressor could help also for use it with a mic.
BTW, the higher impedance possibly mean less background noise ?
BTW, you are used these with a rhodes ?

about the pedal booster: in fact at the moment I alredy use this solution ... a Guyatone ST2 ... it's a compressor/sustainer for guitar indeed ... with a good sound BTW ....


bye
giorgio

Thanks Emielskey for your proposal.

A note about Line-6 gears:
you are right associating my music with line-6 ... in facts I used a DL-4 on my last two works...
I admit that the "sound" of this looper is very interesting ... (even if delay emulations are awful immo)
Now, the DL-4 suddendly crashed one week ago ... no sound on output ...
I already listen about this possibility by some users ... I would'nt believe ... but it happened to myself...
I tryed to open the pedal ... absoultely bad made ... all is "digital" inside ... awfule   
So I decided to do not purchase any more line6 stuff ...

Among us: What I like so much about rhodes piano is that is something electro-mechanical ... all is made by wood, alluminium, screws, solenoids... and I'm restoring myself an instrument dead for almost 30 years ... ;-)

About effects for basses: Yes: I already noticed that''s a good idea just the reason you pointed out! thank-you for remind me

giorgio

thanks,

preamp: any suggestion about something in between the Art Tube MP and the MindPrint EnVoice ?

Here it's all about the pianos, ok?

really !!! (((((((((((((((((((

MindPrint EnVoice seem magnificient

hey there

I found the mx200 is noisy, even on the S/PDIF. that is why i don't use it anymore. the plate reverb preset is very good for the rhodes though.

Ah! Really ?! that's surprise me ... regarding Lexicon stuff I thinking about the  "grain" of sound ... not about noise... arghh!
but I belive you... Lexicon is probably no more the myth of some years ago ;-)

bye
giorgio

Actually I forgot to mention where I use the effect loop.

I have a cheap Alesis mixer which introduces noise in the gain and effects loop. I regret ever buying the damn thing but I've read that cheap mixers in general are terrible for inducing noise. The more expensive ones are better but still can introduce noise.

So I now use the Art preamp to boost the Rhodes signal direct from the harp, route that through my Lexicon MX200 effects unit and then enter the mixer as a line-in stereo signal. This means that I'm avoiding the noisy on-board gain (pre-amp and fx loop) stages of the mixer.

I apply EQ from there which does add a little more noise. Mostly to up the 2.5Kz Mid and get a bit more treble. I also reduce bass a little.

I've read that some people use an approach with mixers to use the fx send but loop back through another stereo input and then bypass gain on the fx return. Normal mixing of the original input and return input is then used to balance as required.

Thanks for details! Trhe configuration schema was already clear to me ...
I would use the same routing, maybe just leaving my board effect processors in the mixer effect loop... it does not seem noisy.

BTW, just a question about the ART preamp you mentioned: it come with his power supply (AC adapter) ?
And a last minor question: do you feel ok with the Lexicon MX200  ?

take care
giorgio

Better use? We all have different taste, and there is no need for judgements about "better or worse use" here I think.

Rob's channel shows pianos he's serviced and restored. I don't think he tells his clients how to use their pianos. At least, I don't.
Freddan

Hey Freddan be calm!

1. nothing against Rob works; I was referring to the song.
2. I already express my feeling in few post already linked, so ... please try understand forward the single "word" meaning ;-)
3. I do not feel to "rate" music I do not love.

giorgio

yes, that could be ok for me, I'd use it in the same way you descibed;
just it seem too cheap to be good ...
but if you tell me that it is quiet.. it could fit!

BTW, I got a very similar one (in the case) from behringer... I spent more money indeed
and that one is too noisy (

BTW, I'm already be a thomann customer

Thanks
giorgio

mmhh... yes, even if
there are better example of use of rhodes, see also:
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=6244.0

anyway the song you reported show the "perfection" of rhodes use on background ...
that's I call "the glue": the rhodes here just plays few chords in background,
apparently you could eliminate it but without it the song would not play "good" ... ;-)

giorgio

Despite the fact I play sort of ambient music with guitars ...
http://solyaris.altervista.org

I'm doing a restoration of a Mark I for future use ;-) (see other post in this forum)

And incidentally I love deep house music and I noticed that in 99% of tracks ...
the basic structure is built-up from two rhodes chords! ;-)
see for example beatiful mixes here: http://www.deephousepage.com

Why ? In your opinion ?
I mean: I love so much the rhodes sound that I'd put it everywere myself ... ;-)
But why nowaday, in the era of "power" of electronic syntetizer, we still love so much that instrument
that is still the most used in DANCE music ??!!!!

BTW, just for talk ...my answer is implicit
giorgio

Hi all

I'm doing myself a restauration of a Mark I (10-1979),
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2042940&id=1169037408&l=e46cea71c5

BTW, output signal is a bit low so a preamp it's almost mandatory to come into the mixer;

do you suggest any external preamp / multieffect suitable for a rhodes ?
I would think about a multieffect that act also as a preamp (low level signal input) ...

I do not mean a special high-level sophisticated preamp,
but indeed something medium-quality ... purchasable in Italy (Europe)

maybe a "standard" multieffects digital processor... ? Any suggestions ?

P.S. I will use the rhodes for my "ambient" music: http://solyaris.altervista.org

thanks
giorgio

Hi all

here photo-story (as a blog) of my complex repair:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2042940&id=1169037408&l=e46cea71c5

sorry, it's in Italian laguage.

During repair I recorded yesterday this: http://solyaris4.altervista.org/rhodes-1.mp3
in the clip you can listen a sort of static/ground noise  that appear and disappear apparently random:
last night  I probably discovered the reason: there are pick-ups' screws not correctly tighten up ...

giorgio

As for getting hold of pickups Giorgio these are you best bet for now, this is an auction for 5x pickups for your Rhodes (they are the shorter pickups, not the longer ones)

Pickup Auction Link

yes Tim,  just arrived bought 12 pick-ups from a.d.skies
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31463811&l=538b535bdb&id=1169037408


giorgio

The liquid inside the pipette? this is a guess but I know some people add glue to the lower part of the damper felts to improve damping. I'm I remember correctly Speakeasy use damper felts with two layers, the first being quite tough and the top layer being the same as usual felts, this gives it more rigidity but also the necessary softness to envelope the tine:



So my guess is he's adding glue to create the same effect (which works)

T

yes, the liquid inside the pipette... a glue ? ... anyway I understand the reason ...  iteresting the "two-layer" modification...

Indeed, at the moment I have teh opposite problem ... I mean: the damper  felts seem working .. at countary I have "low sustain" here and there ... notes "damp" too much ...  probably a issue due to the rust everywhere and possible need to do grommits update ...   ?!

cheers
giorgio

yes, thanks Tim!

Hi Giorgio

Just to clarify is the damper bar grounded?

Hi Tim,
no, I mean not with a wire as in the photo I attached.

best thing to do is to power up the Rhodes listen for the static then touch the damper bar with your hand, if the sound disappears then it's a grounding problem with the bar.

you are right , I'do the test!

Secondly about the tine tuning, you'll find that on the extremes of the piano i.e the bass and the treble the tines are quite difficult to tune (even when the grommets are replaced) it just takes a lot of time and patience to get that sorted :-)

Yes, I realized that on trebles ... generally speaking the tuning is not so easy as many people state ... or maybe it depend by my piano very bad conditions ... anyway Iìll going in deep with voicing in a secon step

thanks
giorgio

Hi all

I'm starting repair a mark I in bad conditions (probably remained for years in a humid place):

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2042940&id=1169037408&l=e46cea71c5

and premising that I have 12 pick-ups dead, and a lot of rust inside,
I now have a minimum of good signal out of internal jack, nevertheless I have is a strange static noise ... with a sort of "pick envelope" ...?! ... I fair this is due to the many dead pick-ups ...

two questions:

1. could help to renew black long ground wire and to use electric-contacts cleaner spray over pick-ups wires ? Or the liquid coukd be coorrosive and it could damage pick-ups internal solenoids ?

2. I saw here below that damper rail have been grounded ... maybe a compelete grounding wire will help ?

http://picasaweb.google.com/fenderrhodesla/WalterF1975Suitcase#5444598817659952018


Any suggestion welcome
thanks
giorgio

Hi all,

sorry for myignorance about technical terms; anyway my question:
what is it the liquid you can see in ths photo ? I mean: can this liquid repair ?

http://picasaweb.google.com/fenderrhodesla/ThomasMauriello#5429679856340608514


thanks
giorgio

Hi Spaceduck, thanks a lot for your help.

I grew up playing one of those rehearsal Rhodes in highschool. It was awful how we (myself included) abused that thing. This was in the 80s when all I wanted was a Yamaha DX7  :roll:

[OT] more than ten years ago... I have been a DX7II "programmer" ...  ( http://solyaris.altervista.org/dx7.htm ), and this is the ONLY ONE digital synth I kept during years... that's pheraps because this synth, even if digital, possess some "analogic" mistery as many electrical instruments possess ...

I happen to have my Stage legs and a measuring tape right here. The rear legs are about 27" (68.5cm) including the 1/2" thread at the top. The front leg is slightly longer, about 27.5" (69cm) with the telescoping part pushed in as far as possible (see pic).

Back leg is 4 octaves, C# to D
Front leg is 4 octaves, C# to D#

very kind of you for detailed info!
and congratulation for the unit of measurement in octaves!

just a last question if I'm not too boring: whit the legs mounted on the piano, what is the lenght (approximately, in cm)  between the floor and the piano bottom layer (the flange), with with the telescoping part pushed in as far as possible  as in your pic ?

* Another problem I now have is a strange static noise ... with a sort of "pick envelope" ...?! ... I fair this is due to the many dead pick-ups ...
I saw somewere that damper rail have been grounded ... maybe a compelete grounding wire will help ?

I had that problem, too. I tightened the grounding screws at both ends of the black wire & re-soldered the red wire at the jack (on the harp), and that fixed it.

yes, I just ordered used pick-ups to replace the 12 deads... hoping that  with all pick-ups working, these strange noise effect (probably due to some impedence result) will go out.  Me too yesterday I thought about replace the long ground  black wire :idea:

giorgio

Hi all

that's how the inside of mine looks. Everything's there intact, but there's a lot of cleaning to do. The outside looks great in those 2 pictures. Did you do that yourself?

* honestly, is my new camera and a lucky light that generated this apparently perfect oustide ... indeed the piano is not clean at all also outside.

* inside, is a disaster, only one tine broke but 11 pick-ups dead, and a lot of rust everywhere and main electrical cable to be re-done...

* Surprisingly the mechanic of keyboard have been repaired successfull in few hours! I followed suggestion by a vintagevibe.com video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU4E7osDm6M&feature=related

* Yes I decided to do myself the reparation, because I'm in Italy, and here is difficult and expensive to find someone that have competences to rapair, so I decided to skill myself ... and I'm not a keyboard player ...

* The sad  thank about this 1979 mark I is how stupidly have been keep ...
probably in a basement or anyway in a humid place, not working for years...
I know the piano have been played mainly in a Rehearsal studio...
it was usual in Italy in pop-rock-jazz rehearsal studios in '80s to have a rhodes as (almost) only keyboard in the studio ... and the players wa all sort of people...

Also it seem to me that the instrument have been repaired ... in superficial way ... probably for tines substitution, but without knowledge and with superficiality ... by example I found two tone-bar inverted! ... how that's possible ?! you can see with a trivial visual inspection that one tonebar is longer that another ... :-(

Anyway I'm confident to restore soon or late this magical sound-maker;

now I need parts ...
* a part tines and pick-ups, that's annoying that I lack 4 legs :-(

BTW. could someone give me the lenght of original legs (closed) thanks!
I think I ask a lathe turner to build this in a simpler form (no telescopic).

* Luckly I have the sustain pedal! brocken but I guess I could repair it.
BTW, I'm a ambient music composer ( http://solyaris.altervista.org ) and I'd love to realize open-sustain chords / clusters... :-)

* Another problem I now have is a strange static noise ... with a sort of "pick envelope" ...?! ... I fair this is due to the many dead pick-ups ...
I saw somewere that damper rail have been grounded ... maybe a compelete grounding wire will help ?

* Last but not least, tuning is not so trivial ... I used a guitar electronic tuner and do some regulations moving springs ... it happen that some notes appear    slightly out-of-tune and a small spring regulation rebring in tune the note, BUT for certain notes, the tuning is very instable ... probably a bad tine oscillation ? ... I'll investigate.

* Probably the vintagetube suggestion to substitute all grommets is right for the correct vibration of tine/tonebar .. I guess I'll do this.

* About escapement, probably this is one of last point to verify because all before must run corrctly to do the right voicing regulation.

All suggestion is welcome! :-)
thanks
giorgio

My restoration work-in progress photos:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2042940&id=1169037408&l=e46cea71c5

sorry for story report in Italian there.

giorgio

Hi all

premising that I'm newbie on rhodes "insides",
finally I decided to open my rhodes to repair it myself (I'm in Italy and here is difficult or too expensive to find a good person to repair it), so I found an "hell of rust" inside

here some photos:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2042940&id=1169037408&l=e46cea71c5

Now, a part a broken tine, I unfortunately realized an apparent dead of many pick-ups, but I'm perplex about the effective dead of some pick-ups:
sometime it appear that the sound do not come out from a pick-up; even if the "click test" with a screwdriver giev an apparent good feed-back (I hear a click, even if with low volume in comparison to a good pick-up CLICK) ...
in this case, is the pick-up anyways dead ?

I do not measured the resistance of these apparent dead pick-ups, but what if I would realize a correct resistence (170 - 190 ohms if I well understood) and still no sound ?

Removing the rust from the pick-up head could revive the pick-up ? Or the rust on pick-ups and tines is only a question of loss of volume/sustain ?

Considering I possibly have to substitute a lot of pick-ups, do you suggest some internet seller that propose a good price (vintage vibe ask $15); there are other reliable web vendors with possible cheap prices?

thanks
giorgio