Modding Rhodes for weight saving

goldphinga · December 10, 2012, 06:14:27 AM

Im starting to look into ways to make Rhodes more portable.
Anyone successfully modded theirs to get the weight down? I know vintage vibe have saved a log of weight by cutting the amount of wood on their piano harps down, cutting the depth of the keybed, and using plastic cases. So, if i could get a case mould outta abs or fibreglass and then work out a way to reshape the harps that might be interesting!
If I could get a Rhodes down to 60lbs I'd be very happy and vv have shown its possible. Be interested to get your thoughts!

The Real MC · December 10, 2012, 09:08:25 AM

I think the harp assembly alone weighs close to that. Then there's the wood keys.

goldphinga · December 10, 2012, 01:06:52 PM

But the entire vv73 weighs 60lbs so taking chunks off the harp seems to pay dividends.
They also use wooden harp supports instead of metal-

Ben Bove · December 10, 2012, 01:30:19 PM

I always drive home the easiest way to cut out the weight is to separate the harp and the case in transport, which doesn't require any extra labor or mods. You can pick up the harp with one hand, and the case with the other - they weigh about the same, if not the harp actually weighs a bit more.

So long as you have a good strike line set, just unscrewing the harp, taking it with you, and then reinstalling at the gig - you can do it completely by yourself. I've wanted to make a case for the harp section, you know maybe with a handle.

Give it a shot once and see how it works!

Rob A · December 11, 2012, 08:30:42 AM

I can't remember if there's a picture around here or not, but didn't someone lighten the harp considerably by drilling several sizeable holes in the plywood?

Thinking out loud, it wouldn't be too tough to swap the angle iron harp frame out for aluminum angle.

goldphinga · December 19, 2012, 03:27:26 PM

yep an aluminium harp frame would work. As would cutting the extraneous bits of wood off the harp. But carrying the harp separately isn't a possibility for me- too many wires to connect and disconnect and too much risk of setup problems at the gig. so- the options are- install a vv harp or cut down the existing harp and get an Alu frame made.

Tim Hodges · December 20, 2012, 07:54:08 AM

Quote from: Rob A on December 11, 2012, 08:30:42 AM
I can't remember if there's a picture around here or not, but didn't someone lighten the harp considerably by drilling several sizeable holes in the plywood?

Image 1 - Swiss Cheese

&

Image 2 - Swiss Cheese

goldphinga · December 21, 2012, 08:08:04 AM

Honestly I give up- think I'm gonna have to get a vintage vibe. Just done my back in again!

Ben Bove · December 21, 2012, 03:40:41 PM

Try separating harp!

goldphinga · December 21, 2012, 10:10:52 PM

theres an earth soldered to the harp so would need to find a way round that

onthegreenline · December 24, 2012, 05:14:29 AM

Hey there! "Swiss cheese" guy here. Drilling the holes didn't save a ton of weight, I was more going for every little bit I could find. I was able to get my custom piano down to 64 lbs, but that was after chopping it to 54 keys, building an entire custom case, etc. Took a lot of work and I have a piano I can gig with in my rock band. Not sure what to recommend to you, I saved most of my weight on the case and by losing the two octaves...

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7306.0

Here's the link to the thread if you want to peek...

goldphinga · December 24, 2012, 10:10:57 AM

Thanks man, yeah minimal weight lost by drilling the wood...

Im going to rehouse the rhodes in a bespoke lightweight flightcase made of astroboard and aluminum...will document it on here once i get the design nailed and the right dude to build it for me...

goldphinga · December 26, 2012, 01:43:50 AM

Another possibility is getting a bespoke plastic thermodyne case made, much like the mk v case.

goldphinga · May 11, 2013, 03:12:00 AM

I think it's crazy that nobody apart from VV has really looked into modding an existing Rhodes to lose weight. Case aside- here's what I can see losing weight-

1. Losing the back half of the keybed like VV did and like a Wurlitzer
2. Drilling holes in the aluminium harp supports, action rail and damper release bar
3. Replacing the harp frame with aluminium and ditching the the front part of the frame
4. Cutting down the wood in the harp to contour with the tonebars

Anything else that anyone can think of?
I'm about ready to go ahead with the help of an acoustic piano builder to get this weight saving project underway!

Fred · May 14, 2013, 12:28:51 PM

Hey wait a minute! (insert record scratch sound effect here) ...That custom 54 is really a custom 53 ; )

goldphinga · May 14, 2013, 02:28:13 PM

Actually screw it I'm gonna buy a VV

Ben Bove · May 14, 2013, 03:57:20 PM

Now you're talkin'!

goldphinga · June 05, 2013, 04:55:20 PM

So i weighed my Rhodes harp. 26lbs. I wonder how much weight could be lost cutting pieces out of the alu action rail, harp supports and by cutting wood from the keybed frame...

thoughts?

goldphinga · June 07, 2013, 05:39:33 AM

Harp frame weighs 5.6 lbs. Making it out of alu would lose about 3lbs. Plus cutting out the wood on the pickup and tone rail, maybe another 5lbs. So potentially about 8lbs could be lost off the harp.

Next, i want to see how much weight i can lose by drilling holes in the damper bar, action rail and harp supports.

Please chime in guys with your thoughts.

So far i can lose... 8lbs cutting the wood down on the harp and making an alu frame

Cutting holes in damper bar=?
Cutting holes in harp supports=?
Cutting holes in action rail=?
Cutting sections of wood from the keybed frame=?

4kinga · June 07, 2013, 02:31:13 PM

I always wondered about making an aluminum case or at least bottom.

goldphinga · July 09, 2013, 02:25:36 AM

Bump!

Nobody else considering making their Rhodes lighter?

goldphinga · July 22, 2013, 11:09:30 AM

Bump!!!!

Anyone know if cutting away wood on the harp has any effect on the sound? I presume not as VV have done it on their piano to no ill effect.

Any thoughts on this?

Max Brink · July 25, 2013, 07:25:36 PM

At some point the density and mass of the wood should affect the tone of the Rhodes so I feel that the question is at what point does it become significant and is it worth it?

I'm not an expert when it comes to wood but my main concern with removing majority of the mass or structure would be how will the wood age over the coming years? My basic understanding is that wood shifts around and the wood grain can have an impact on what ways it may slowly warp or settle over time. With less wood or modified/drilled wood I would imagine that the instrument would slowly become disposable rather than the serviceable instrument that it is meant to be.

goldphinga · July 27, 2013, 03:37:39 PM

Absolutely. So with that in mind...how have VV pulled it off on their pianos? If the tonebars, tines and hammers are the same weight as the old Rhodes then, surely that requires the same amount of wood to keep it all in shape?

Max Brink · July 29, 2013, 11:50:33 PM

I haven't had more than a glance under the hood of the VV piano but if I recall correctly the wood was thicker and this may make up for some of the warping threats. And it may also be to add more resonant mass while cutting down on the overall surface area of the harp.

The VV definitely nails it for the tone to weight ratio. I was blown away that I could comfortably carry the 73 on my own without a problem--though having a 6'4" wingspan probably helps as well. And actually I recently made a lighthearted joke on their facebook page about their pianos having cup-holders but if you look at their hammer rail it employs a similar weight saving technique to the design I have seen posted here with a circular cutout.

My honest opinion on the topic of Rhodes weight saving is that the Rhodes just isn't that bad of a weight--certainly not bad enough to put a 1" drill bit into it a hundred times over. As long as you have bandmates that can lend a hand in exchange for a beer at the gig then it's well worth hauling out to the show. Or just help them with their gear... With two sets of hands a Rhodes is hardly a hassle. If your bandmates are unwilling to lend a hand moving a totally groovy vintage electro-mechanical instrument then they probably aren't worth being called bandmates, right?

...And if you want something lightweight I agree with the previous posters to check out the VV. It seems to be a hell of a value for a brand spanking new electric piano!

goldphinga · July 30, 2013, 02:28:23 AM

Great post Max! However! I have to lift the Rhodes on my own as the stairs to my studio are very narrow and only one person can fit at a time. Also the stairwell is too narrow to get a carry cart into. Hence I need to make the piano lighter. My band mates help me on the other side but I can't see why I couldn't do what VV have done to my piano. if I do the work it'll be done properly so not a hack job. Ill cut the wood properly, and get a new Alu harp frame made with new metal supports that run up from the Keybed like vv. the problem is in the UK the vv piano I want (73 with midi) is running at about £7000+ with import and tax. That's just impossible to do so I have no choice but to go down the weight saving route myself as far as I can see. What vv have done isn't rocket science but it just needs thinking about carefully before I apply it to my piano. Any more thoughts please let me know as I need help on this as much as poss. But I am going to go ahead.

Max Brink · July 30, 2013, 10:06:46 AM

It may not be rocket science but it certainly takes a lot of craftsmanship to do it right. My thoughts this morning over coffee would be to try starting from near-scratch and make an alternate tine piano from the Rhodes parts in a way that allows you to drop them back into the Rhodes in a worst case scenario (no one wants to see any #rhodesfail here)...

Maybe transfer over the key bed, pickups and tines and install them into a harp system that you design from scratch. It will take a lot of careful planning but by starting from scratch I'm sure you could drastically reduce the weight...

I would imagine something like the 110-145 Wurlitzer model design with a latch that removes over the keys would be one of the most practical designs to imitate.

Including having to purchase tools and taking a woodworking friend out for dinner for consultation you could come up with something for a fraction of that cost that also looks great.

goldphinga · July 30, 2013, 10:46:52 AM

Or maybe i should buy a Rhodes just to experiment on...i might just do that! Im speaking to a piano repairer to see if they can assist with the project anyway so theres no way its gonna be anything but high quality.

Ill keep you posted anyway! I dont understand why more people arent thinking about this..Look how much a VV costs. But if someone could come out with a cost effective new case design with a way to mod the inside of any rhodes to save weight too then offer that service that would be a winner of a business model. I mean, im already speaking to SKB to see if they can build a new Rhodes MKv type case but with a production run in mind so that its cost effective...It would have pilot holes drilled in the base to fit any model or era. Its a shame as ive asked VV several times to sell me a modded harp and i said to them i thought it would be a good business if they sold their lightweight harps and modded action rails to install in all rhodes but they said 'it will never happen'. But if theyre not gonna do it theres a business there for someone else. i.e. me! Theres about 250,000 Rhodes across the world and i dare say most players that have them dont gig with them because of the weight, but that could change yet!..i could roll out a mod service transplanting the modded innards into a new light case. You heard it here first .©Goldphinga 2013!!! lol

vanceinatlance · August 01, 2013, 10:36:02 PM

Don't know if it helps or not, but I noticed on pictures of a MkV harp and one I saw on what I think was a 82 suitcase, the upper tone bars don't appear to have (escapement?) screws at all. Probably not much weight saved at all, but interesting none the less. Maybe they are not necessary, or have some type of brace that compensates for the missing screw.

goldphinga · August 02, 2013, 01:53:32 AM

Yeah I think that's a minimal weight saving there. They use a rubber standoff instead to keep the bars aligned. by the time I've completed this project I might actually have the lightest Rhodes I'm the world!

okdk · August 03, 2013, 11:36:28 AM

I just picked up a '74 stage 73 that needs some work. So while it's out of it's case, I was curious how much weight the case is, top and bottom without the legs/pedal. 48.5 lbs!!

I'm in the same spot as Goldphinga, have stairs to get my rhodes out to the car so really can't handle it myself on the home end of taking to a gig. I've thought about just keeping a "gig" rhodes in the garage next to the car so I can load it fairly easy and then get the help on the other end.

goldphinga · August 03, 2013, 02:00:42 PM

How much does the piano part weight then?

goldphinga · December 14, 2013, 04:00:20 PM

So, still not had the bottle to cut up my Rhodes harp and keybed, so im going to buy a case for transporting the harp separately to the piano part. That way I have a the harp in a case total weight 35lbs approx and the Rhodes without harp at about 65lbs. Works for me until i find a better way. Thanks Bjammerz! Great advice!

Ben Bove · December 16, 2013, 03:37:13 PM

Let me know how it works out. Was just an idea but haven't gotten around to testing how it works out myself. Good luck!

goldphinga · December 16, 2013, 04:43:53 PM

Well I've been thinking on it for a while and there aren't any issues that I can see so far apart from the earthing but I'm working on a plan for a remove able earth wire and some quick release pins to replace the harp screws. It certainly makes the piano a lot more manageable! Great idea!

Mark S 1 · December 30, 2013, 10:03:29 PM

Right now my Rhodes is out of the case for rebuild (Stage 73) and that case is one heavy beast! I'm restoring this one to be a studio instrument, so weight isn't a concern, but if it was, I'd start with building a new case using extruded aluminum and either aluminum skin or very thin plywood. I'd also make the new case much smaller - loose the lid (make it part of the case), and don't store the legs and pedal in the lid (assuming it is a stage model).

I just went to my shop and lifted my Rhodes sans case (i.e. complete keybed, keys, action, harp, everything but the case and lid) and it was very manageable - certainly less weight than many guitar amps I've owned.

zoooombiex · June 24, 2015, 12:02:10 PM

Curious if there is any update on this? I switched from gigging a Mk1-73 to a 54, and now to a MkV. A little better each time, but overall it does seem like there should be a way to mfg an aftermarket case that you could use in place of the original wood...

goldphinga · June 24, 2015, 01:11:50 PM

Aha! The thread rises again. Well, I had my mk2 rehoused in a lighter flightcase, knocked the weight down to 102 lbs, much more manageable and its fully touring ready- so couple of pounds more than a mkv currently but thats with a Janus front rail installed with the heavier rail/preamp and the case is much more sturdy than a mkv. With a normal rail it weighs 99lbs fully cased. Im planning on modding the innards next and once thats done (cutting down the damper rail, the harp wood and making new harp frame sides the weight will hit about 90lbs fully flightcased.

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Modding Rhodes for weight saving