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It's a real pain avoiding the plural form of "Rhodes" but I can't figure out how to do it.

Rhodeses? Or is it a self-pluralized word like "sheep"? (Apparently those are called plurale tantum words.)

I just had a conversation with a fellow on Facebook regarding the balance rail felts on his wooden-key Mark II.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1643405129261728/permalink/1895248177410754/

He says he bought his piano new and that it never included balance pin felts. Further, if he was to add them, the keys would lift up enough to leave a visible gap in front between the keys and the cabinet. They would also likely bump against the name rail.

1. Anybody else ever seen this? a felt-less balance rail?

2. Just what do those felts do anyway? Do they really affect the feel of the keyboard?

3. What are some of the ramifications of changing those felts? In the past, I've swapped in thicker felts when I needed to make up a gap between the keys and name rail. I tried conducting experiments with a simple mock-up of the mechanics in play. As best I can tell, raising the balance rail reduces key dip a little bit. What else happens?

Until about six months ago, I could always see at least one decent deal listed in my local(ish) Craig's List. Lately, not so much. And I could be mistaken, but it seems like ebay hasn't been as forthcoming as it used to be. I only see a handful of pianos and all for high asking prices.

I've been playing pretty fast and loose with pianos, assuming the next unit is always available somewhere in nearby classified listings. But I'm wondering if I need to adjust my values a little for a tightening market.

Hi folks,

A Pianet-T owner wrote to me asking how I grounded the keyshafts on a unit that came through my shop a few years back. I don't think it was a complicated task but I have no memory of carrying it out.

I found a reference in an old post to a Youtube video that discusses this but I can't find the video.
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7067.msg36222#msg36222

Can anyone explain the best way to proceed?

Has anyone ever concerned themselves with the key touchweight of a Rhodes? The first few hits on Google say standard acoustic piano touchweight is between 50 and 60 grams. I'm currently working on a late 70s with factory pedestal bumps and its action is about as light as any Rhodes. But the keys all require substantially more than 60 grams to depress.

I've begun adding weights to the fronts of the keys and sure enough, they feel very light. My main concern is I'm reducing the keys' ability to return quickly to upright. I think I'm going to have to wait until it's finished before I can decide whether this was a mistake.

Here's a rare recording taken right from the board before being cleaned up in post-production.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22i57u2eMDE




Sorry. But I found this to be hilarious and remarkably well done.

This is kind of a nitpicky thing but I thought I'd throw the question out just to see if there are any opinions.

Along with some other work I'm doing on a 1974 will be the addition of some Miracle Mod bumps. The customer supplied some felt for the pedestals but I'm not sure I want to use it.

The original felt on these pedestals was 0.080" thick. The supplied replacement is 0.060". I have 0.080" felt that I could use. Think it makes any difference? Is it possible that in '74, they were careful enough to choose a felt thickness specifically to complement the relationship of the keys and hammers or do you think they just used what seemed appropriate or what was on-hand?

All things being equal, I always will opt to reproduce the original configuration and will likely use my 0.080" on this piano. Again, I'm just fishing for thoughts on the subject, if there are any.

I just spent a very long time diagnosing a bum note. See if you can tell what's wrong.
http://www.shadetreekeys.com/Rhodes/10617/HauntedNote.mp3

It's the fourth and eighth notes. It's not a voicing issue.

I began referring to it as the "haunted note" because it defied explanation for so long. You might immediately identify the problem.

I've never dug into a Wurlitzer before and I'm just wondering if anyone could enlighten me about common issues or pitfalls.
I can see that the dampening material will need to be replaced.


Maybe the hammers? maybe just a 'voicing'?


As I disassemble, are there any areas where I should be extra-cautious? like, "if you take this assembly apart, you'll be all week getting it back together"?

Also, in an earlier thread, it was possibly suggested I could use standard preamp phantom power to get sound from this thing (which is missing its preamp). Is it simply a matter of connecting one of the xlr pins to the end of the reed bar?

If the pedestals on this KMC 1 have the Marcel curve, they'll be the first set I've seen in person. So I'm not certain whether they are.


It's a very subtle curve.

I'm trying to decide whether to proceed with a Miracle Mod but..
1. The consensus appears to say it may be unnecessary.
2. The action doesn't feel too bad as-is.
3. A quick check suggests I'd have to place the bump forward of the flat part. That is, the hammer cam sits right at the front edge when at stop-lock.


So I'm likely to leave well enough alone.

Hi folks. I've never spent much time on the Wurlitzer side of this forum before but a 700 just arrived in my shop so it looks like I need to get up to speed.

http://www.shadetreekeys.com/15271-photos/

My first question: The owner kept the amplifier to work on himself. He said I could take sound from the RCA cord dangling out the back. It worked but I had to crank everything way up to hear it. Should that be an instrument-level signal coming out of there? Do I need a special preamp to make it sound right? Or should I be able to plug that directly into an amplifier and the weak signal I'm getting is because something's wrong with the piano itself?

This is a KMC 1 I'm working on for a customer. It's the first one I've seen in person and I have some questions.


1. Does the serial number really include the letter I or did they just use the I stamp instead of getting a "1"?


2. Any ideas as to the year? I can't find the standard manufacture date stamp on the harp.

3. How does the keyframe attach to the cabinet? I haven't even had the keys out yet but I'm guessing it's screwed down from the inside.
  Answer: four screws of the same sort that go in the front of the cheek block, down through the front of the keyframe. Four 1-1/2" oval-head screws down through the balance rail. And two of the same sort that attach wood harp supports to the action rail up from below at an angle through the back.

4. What's the deal with this capacitor and resistor (obscured in this photo) wired into the circuit?


5. There is no pin and screw assembly at the center of the damper release rail - the one that keeps the rail from bowing upwards. By the rail's appearance, one should be there unless someone knows otherwise.

6. Does the damper mechanism normally include a galvanized carriage bolt where the pitman dowel would be on a Stage piano? It works pretty well and fits perfectly, just looks a little rigged. Is that the way Suitcase pianos work as well?


More pictures at
http://www.shadetreekeys.com/kmc-1-10617/10617-photos/

This relates to a question alenhoff asked recently.
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7924.msg49464#msg49464

I've been using black super glue to repair damage to both black key tops and cheek blocks with varying degrees of success. My most ambitious project so far has been the cheek blocks from a 1976.


After an initial sanding, this is where I was (they've swapped sides).

Does anyone know where I can find oval front guide pins that are 0.135" at their narrow dimension?

I found one place selling 0.129" but everything else is 0.146".

As I begin to take in customers' instruments, I've been wondering about this.

After reinstalling tone generators, I make a voicing pass across the instrument. This gets everything about 80% of the way there but the overall job is a bit of a Long-Tail situation. Over the course of weeks and even months, I'll continue to tweak notes as I play the piano. Even weeks later, sometimes a note will jump out at me in the middle of a tune.

I'm sure I could make a more concerted effort to get it set up faster but I'm curious about others' thoughts, both as customers and service providers.

Service providers: do you feel you're able to define a stopping point for tweaking voicing? I'm expecting to allot a reasonable amount of time to the job but it will be spread out over the course of at least days if not weeks.

Customers: What do you expect from your service providers? Do they claim to get it all set up and voiced in a matter of days? and do you think they succeed?

Hi folks,
Later today I'm expecting a KMC1 to show up at my shop. For me to provide a reasonably accurate service estimate, I feel I need to be able to pull some keys.

I've never seen a KMC1 in person. Will I run into any complications when I attempt to remove the name rail and pull out a few keys? I'd rather not make the guy stand there and wait while I figure out how those things are assembled.

Hi all,

Up until now, I've only worked on pianos that I've owned myself. Now that I've got a little experience and have performed most of the common repair and restoration procedures a few times, I've decided to begin accepting work from other owners.

I'm offering repairs and restorations for both Stage and Suitcase pianos. I've only worked on Stage up to this point but I've contacted a local amplifier tech who happens to have been tech for the local Rhodes dealer and he's agreed to pick up where he left off if I should find myself with any Suitcase pianos in need of amplifier work.

Hi folks.

I'm reassembling a 1974 Stage right now and I find myself with a nearly 1/8" wide gap between the key tops and the name rail felt.


The only adjustment I can think to make would be to shim the hell out of the balance rail felts. It's true that after leveling the keys, as is always the case, I was left with many extra punchings I did not reuse. But there are certainly not enough left over to raise all of the keys the amount that would be necessary. I actually checked.

Can something be done? I don't think it affects the playability and it's not as though the keys are falling off their guide pins. But I do notice it while I'm playing. It just don't look right.

The recent thread about rewinding pickups reminds me of a question I've wondered about.

Has anyone ever tried different pickup winding techniques? Primarily, I'd be interested in trying thinner wire for more wraps and a hotter pickup. Or how about reverse-winding every other pickup or something like that?

I've always wondered why Rhodes generate such a weak signal - around 1.5K ohm compared to more like 5K to 8K for a typical electric guitar. I assume the engineers decided the weaker pickup generated a more pleasing tone.

Someday, I may get a batch of dead pickups and try winding them with thinner wire to see what it sounds like. There's a batch on ebay right now calling my bluff but I can't bring myself to spend $50 on dead pickups.

No, not Peter Frampton. This is pretty incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muCPjK4nGY4

Look who topped the chart
http://www.uksoulchart.com/

The question of how much torque to apply to tine block screws arises with some regularity. The official service manual is silent on this topic but common sense and most advice I've heard suggest this screw should be installed as tightly as possible. Indeed it was recently said that the job can only be performed properly with an impact driver. But along with all of this, there have been reports of heads shearing off from overzealous tightening.

I decided to sacrifice a few screws for science. At first I thought I'd need to forfeit some tines as well but I was actually able to finagle the stumps back out with little trouble.

Hey folks,
Do you feel that you get similar results when installing the Miracle Mod on both hybrid (wood and plastic) and later all-plastic hammers? I don't.

I like the way the older pianos sound but I like the way the newer ones play. I've been using the same technique to install the Mod on all pianos, both old and 'new'. The plastic hammers feel awesome to me after the Mod. The hybrids feel much better but still have a little mush to them.

One of Athens Ohio's oldest bars The Union burned up along with several other businesses in a big fire at the end of last weekend. It's pretty big news around here but I post to the forum because apparently one of the bands that lost equipment was "Speaking Suns" from Yellow Springs, Ohio. A Nord fell victim to the flames.

That wasn't yours was it Peter?

I'm working on a 1974 Stage Seventy Three right now. When it came to me, several hammers were already broken at their hinges. Now I've discovered several more with cracked hinges. The flanges on these hammers are so brittle I cannot disconnect them without first applying a little heat.

Should I go ahead and replace all of these hammers? The piecemeal replacements I've already installed have been of more ductile plastic that doesn't snap as easily. Were all these old hammers this brittle or has the plastic on these gone through a petrification process?

I always prefer to retain original parts but I'm afraid these hammers are going to continue to break (and I don't like the slight color difference of my replacements). Or do you suppose this piano just had a particularly hard life and as long as I replace all of the cracked pieces, I'll be OK?

What's the deal with the lapel pins that are always for sale on ebay?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rhodes-Keyboard-Lapel-Pin-lg-Black-/150764506537

Where did these come from?

A friend of mine was groovin' to some Carpenters - really, I'd admit if it was me - and asked me about the keyboard Richard was playing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryHQx_kdOas

I only watched through to the second tune and it seemed to go from reed organ to electric piano.

I noticed this hammer for sale on ebay.


Was that standard at some point? I'm talking about the L-shaped wood used for the tip. It looks like the neoprene wrapping (is it still neoprene on those wood tips?) is still triangular leaving a gap between it and the wood.

I'm working on a 1974 with individual hammer flanges right now. I notice the action rail is sticky where the hammer flanges attach. Were they originally installed with double-stick tape (in addition to the screws of course)? There doesn't appear to be a finish on the wood so I don't think there was anything to react and turn gooey. It's evenly distributed and certainly not remnants of a beverage mishap.

I've often wondered about the background of many of the regulars here. I hope I'm not being intrusive but I'm curious how folks ended up in this particular niche. If you prefer playing your cards close to your chest, feel free to pretend you didn't see this post.

bjammerz - I gather you're a professional musician. Do you also work on Rhodes pianos as a side gig? just for fun or for customers? When/how did you gather all of the Rhodes knowledge?

pianotuner steveo - You've been a professional piano tech for many years who's applied his skills to a personal interest in vintage instruments.

The Real MC - I've visited your personal site and can see that you're an electrical engineer and a "prosumer" audio enthusiast who just digs equipment and vintage keys.

sean - As far as I'm concerned, you are a huge enigma. You drop in occasionally and lay some incredibly useful information on us - information that suggests a thorough familiarity with Rhodes pianos, but from where? Are you a hobbyist? a professional technician?

voltergeist - I think you've given us some background information in the past but what I want to know is, where did you get that incredible shop you work in? Just an extension of your day job, or were you a fabricator in a past life?

My story is that I bought a Fifty Four when I was in high school. I didn't know what a Rhodes was, only that it was an affordable keyboard with weighted keys. I played it for many years then stored it for many more. A few years back, I pulled it out and worked to make it playable again (many dead white-tape pickups). I enjoyed working on the Rhodes and thought such a hobby would be a good excuse to develop my garage into a shop. And it has.

Just found this nice article about Max Brink's operation.

https://reverb.com/blog/vibrating-parts-geeking-out-on-the-rhodes-electric-piano-with-max-brink

Were single hammer flanges ever paired with all-plastic hammers? Or is it the case that all hybrid hammers used single flanges and all plastic hammers used octave sets?

In a recent discussion, I mentioned that I'm slowly working on developing a key-striking mechanism to aid in adjusting the voicing and volume on a Rhodes.

I've got roller rails, carriages and various pieces of machined aluminum that I'm hoping can be arranged in a useful fashion. I'm missing the most critical component though - the actuator. I purchased a 12VDC solenoid from MSCDirect (they don't seem to sell it anymore but it's similar to one they still offer) but I don't think it's going to cut it. I hooked it up to a wall-wart 12VDC transformer. It worked but it barely had enough force to make the note sound.

I don't know how to find something that will fulfill my needs. Is a solenoid the way to go or should I be looking for a 'linear actuator'? I've searched but found few options. I don't know where to find more solenoids and the linear actuators I've found are prohibitively expensive.

I'm in the process of cataloging the parts that make up the various Stage pianos that I've had and I need help naming some parts. I also maintain a screw size list on my website and I'd like to use names that make sense to as many people as possible.

First off - pianotuner steveo, I know you've posted the name of the damper dowel and that it's a standard term for that type of device but I'll be darned if I can find that post anywhere.

Otherwise, I'm primarily concerned with screws right now.

1. Oriented horizontally, connecting the harp supports to the action rail. On wood pianos, it's a round head wood screw (#12-11 x 2-1/2" Phillips round head). On aluminum, it's a bolt.
2. Vertical, connects the key frame to action rail and harp supports on wood pianos. (#12-11 x 1-1/2" Phillips flat head wood)

...and while Fred's around the forum:

Is Vintage Vibe using their Tine Stabilizers on all bass tone bars now?


This is from the recent listing for a 1972 on ebay.

Would anyone running a repair/restoration shop care to share information about any management software they may be using?

I used the opentaps implementation of OFBiz for a couple of years. It's a full OMS/CRM solution and much more complex than what my needs call for. I carelessly lost my database during a system overhaul and now I'm not very keen on setting it all back up.

I'm working on developing my own system that will suit my needs but before I put too much work into it, I thought I'd check if there's anything appropriate already on the market.

I'm looking for suggestions for a good built-in amplification system for my shop. I don't gig so I don't need a portable amp. I also don't have much floor space and would like to suspend speakers from the roof trusses.

I'd like to be able to use the stereo tremolo effect - it gives me vertigo but it's an iconic Rhodes sound and I want to be able to produce it. I'd just be looking for a set of the Rhodes or Leslie cabinets that do this but I'm afraid they'll be too big and I need controls that are separate from the speakers.

I'm thinking of installing the Vintage Vibe Stereo Tremolo in a stand-alone cabinet and using it to drive a couple of decent amps and small-ish speaker cabinets.

Anyone have a lot of tuning and/or tone bar springs they'd be willing to sell? I'm just looking to stock up a little bit. I know I can purchase these new but I want pieces that aren't zinc plated so they don't stand out next to the originals.

I've worked on a few pianos now ranging in age from '73 onward. I have yet to recognize a need for new bridle straps.

As I understand it, the little tooth protruding from the shaft of the hammer is there to provide a built-in length gauge. All of the bridle straps I've encountered have been quite taut when hooked there.

In a recent thread, Max Brink indicated that the straps should be taut when the hammer is at rest. This is not always the case for me but perhaps it's is due to other factors such as the addition of Miracle Mod bumps or the way the damper arms are bent.

I'm currently working on a set of hammers and if I'm going to replace the bridle straps, I'd like to do it now. This piano has seen heavy use but the straps still barely reach their sizing pins. Should I leave them be?

I just purchased key bushing cauls from Spurlock Specialty Tools. I measured the guide pins on my 1976 and found the fronts to be 0.137" and the balance were 0.145". I purchased a set of cauls for pins sized 0.137" and 0.146". As stated in the website copy, the cauls are supplied one to two thousandths oversize. The sets I received are exactly in those tolerances.

Using the felt I got from Vintage Vibe, these cauls fit very tightly in the key mortises. One test key even began to split.


The VV felt measures about 0.050". I measured an original piece from the piano and it seemed to also be around 0.050".

I'm inclined to get another set of smaller cauls, particularly because I think I'd like to take advantage of the two-caul method described on the Spurlock Specialty Tools site. Also, as can be seen in the above image, I've got miles of the VV felt. Does anyone think I should instead purchase thinner felt and use the cauls that are theoretically correct for the pins?

On From Left to Right, Bill Evans plays a Rhodes which at times sounds as though it has a peculiar setup. Particularly on The Dolphin, it's especially bright and metallic.

Here's a short mp3 clip that features the sound I'm talking about.

Is that a Dyno-My-Piano sound?

Here's what I've been doing:

I begin with only white felts on the balance pins - no punchings. I look for any unusually high keys and sand the underside to bring them closer in line with the rest of the keys. I then stand a 12-inch steel ruler on edge across the keys. Except within six inches of the ends, I center the ruler over the key I'm working on. If there's a gap under the ruler, I add punchings to eliminate it.

Using this method, I end up with nicely leveled keys but I also end up with many leftover punchings that were originally installed on the piano. Of the seven different thicknesses that came with the piano (on my current 1976), I only use the thinnest four or five - never any of the very thick ones.

My key dip is 13/32. On the high side but within Service Manual tolerance. My understanding is that key dip is set at the keybed felt. What other concerns should I have about all these leftover punchings?

I've been watching ebay for months...
Would anyone be willing to part with a set of the small take-apart cabinet hinges found on earlier Rhodes models?

According to a reliable source, 1976 was a particularly bad year for white keys that develop cracking and crazing. Well, I've got three sets of keys from that year and I need to come up with some solution.

I purchased a set of keys from a 1979 for sacrificial use and I've been experimenting with repair methods. My best results so far have come from widening the cracks to a V channel using an X-ACTO knife, backfilling with powder harvested with a rasp from another cap, then drizzling acetone over top. I was able to get a seamless patch but the replacement material isn't as opaque as the original and there's a shadow where the channel was.

I've tried pre-mixing the acetone and key powder but it sets up so quickly this doesn't seem a viable method. Air seems to get trapped inside the mixture and is clearly visible in the finished product. Now, if I had a way of retarding the acetone's evaporation...

I've tried replacing cracked keys using the good keys from the 1979 but I can't get the color to match. The 79s are more yellow. I've tried sanding down through the surface layer but the difference is still apparent. I'm considering trying this whitening solution suggested by adcurtin but even if it works, I don't have enough replacements to go around.

I'm up for trying to re-cap the keys if that's what it'll take. Where would I go to find appropriate caps?

Looking at tjh392's recent photos, I'm reminded of a question:

Is there a method to the placement of the Sphinx glides on cabinets - specifically those on the back surrounding the logo - throughout the years? Due diligence turned up only this inconclusive thread.

My assumptions based on the cabinets I've seen is that early models with four latches and small hinges placed all four glides on the lower half of the cabinet. Two shared screws with the corner caps and two were mounted independently an inch or so in from the opposite corners. Late cabinets with two latches and big hinges placed all four glides over the corner caps, two on the lower half and two on the upper.

I figured it may have been done this way because the old, small hinges couldn't support the load if it was split between the two halves.

I'm having trouble getting from my Rhodes to my computer. Short story: I've run direct from the piano to the microphone input on my sound card and this usually works. On the computer I'm currently trying to use, I can't get the levels anywhere near where they should be. Basically, the sound is very quiet and distorted. I've tried every adjustment control and alternate input I can find. Without extensive testing, I'm concluding there's something wrong with my sound card.

My question is, can someone recommend a decent, reasonably priced audio interface for a computer? Either an internal card or an external USB setup. I'd like to keep the solution to ~$100 USD. I'd like to run direct from the Rhodes with no preamp in between. My goal is to record the unadulterated sound for demonstration purposes.

[edit: I'm talking solely of Stage pianos]

Does anyone know a source for accurate reproductions of these Excelsior latches?

I've been working on the harp cover from a Mark I for a while now. I've got it sanded down below the leatherette texture but am unsure how to proceed.

I've seen several threads about repainting the cover. While these have all looked good, I have a fairly strong aversion to the addition of a surface coating. For some reason, painting represents to me a much larger departure from "original" than settling for an imperfect texture. I don't expect to be able to restore the original texture (unless anyone knows a trick?). My goal was to somehow establish a satin surface on the.. ABS is it?

As it's going, it looks like my only option is to buff it to a high gloss. Anything less, and I'm left with visible sanding marks. I've got it down to about 600 grit right now and it looks good from a distance.

Anyone know of a way to create a matte or satin surface on this material?

The Vintage Vibe replacement top may end up being my final solution but I would very much prefer to use the original part. My top isn't in bad shape, it just doesn't look right

As I mentioned in a recent thread, I've really been getting into Google SketchUp lately. As subjects for my 3D modeling projects, I've been using various parts from some of my pianos. I just finished up a weeks-long effort to model the key frame from my 1973 Seventy Three.


The models are as detailed and accurate as I was able to make them. Even the screws are modeled with the correct thread types and sizes.


My main motivation for doing these is simply that I just seem to really enjoy using that program but I also hope that these models might be of use to someone someday. SketchUp is a free program and apparently even runs on Linux under Wine. Anyone can download these models into SketchUp and get any measurement they might need from these parts. I figure the cabinets are likely to be of the most use since they're something that often needs to be rebuilt or replaced.

Here are all of the models I've made so far.

Been thinking of working on this tune.. gotta grow a few more fingers first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdUy70dh8LY#!

This is a mechanical player piano being driven by a computer over a midi connection. The tune was apparently written to test the piano's functionality.