The Electric Piano Forum

General => The Wurlitzer Electric Piano => Topic started by: cinnanon on November 23, 2014, 11:14:23 PM

Title: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on November 23, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
I am attempting (in my spare time) to model the 200A piece by piece, mainly for fun and to see if I can do it. I will have models available for download and update this thread as I go. Modeled in SolidWorks. Maybe someone can print the parts on a 3D printer one day and have a totally plastic wurly! Each piece will be measured down to the thousandths of an inch, so should be pretty accurate. I made these two tonight.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on November 24, 2014, 10:31:37 PM
Damper arm
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on November 25, 2014, 10:55:46 PM
building the base. legs aren't totally done yet.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pianotuner steveo on November 26, 2014, 05:52:08 AM
This is neat looking, but I guess I don't really understand what you are doing.

Is ths something you are making with a 3D printer?
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on November 26, 2014, 07:13:16 AM
The pictures are renderings of the solid models I'm drawing in SolidWorks. The end result will be a scale 3d virtual model of the 200A complete with moving parts. I'll do some simulations of the action and also find what it takes to break the keyboard in half (for some reason I am curious ).  Useless stuff unless someone wants to build the whole thing from scratch, now they can. And mainly for fun.  The lid will fold back, keys will move and engage the action.  Sustain pedal will lift the dampers. I can model an amp and see if it will fit before ever designing it.  I'm going to use this to help me design a sustain pedal for my 112 too.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: mvanmanen on November 26, 2014, 10:12:46 AM
This is a really neat project.
Thank you for sharing your progress.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: Dmacken1 on November 26, 2014, 02:51:17 PM
This is pretty awesome! Keep us posted on the completion of the design. I know that Cornell University has a 3D printer. I have a few connections over there and would love to get this piece built and see how it sounds!
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pianotuner steveo on November 26, 2014, 03:20:48 PM
You can't build hammer and damper felt or reeds with a 3D printer.... ;)
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on November 26, 2014, 04:54:00 PM
Haha yea plastic reeds would break pretty easily i'm sure. Let alone they aren't even conductive!
I can tell you how much force is exerted on the reeds though. When I design the reeds I will model each one individually and see how much force it takes to break them. I just need to know the type of steel that was used on the reeds and I can find the properties on it.

I will keep this up to date.  I plan on getting a good bit done this weekend.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on December 01, 2014, 08:37:42 PM
A little more.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on December 02, 2014, 10:22:37 PM
keypins
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: 8675309 on December 05, 2014, 03:15:34 PM
A strong recommendation would be to NOT post any of your solid files! Someone could easily go into business with what your doing here, its happened before on other forums where "DIY" recipes were posted and people with no morals just copy/paste and put the stuff into production leaving you stuck high and dry while they cash in. Good work though I tinker with solidworks from time to time its a difficult program to operate!

Nice work :)
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on December 06, 2014, 12:41:43 AM
I thought of that too. You are right.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pianotuner steveo on December 06, 2014, 05:35:25 AM
I love the hammer pictures!

Cool!
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on March 01, 2015, 02:42:00 PM
knob
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: David Aubke on March 01, 2015, 04:14:45 PM
I've modeled several parts (http://www.shadetreekeys.com/ShopChart/items.php?models=1) from Rhodes pianos in SketchUp. I'd love to complete an entire piano but I don't think I can accomplish that in one lifetime. My motivation is partly about documentation but also to provide references for folks trying to repair or replace parts. Heck, if someone wanted to download my .skp files and start production, they're welcome to them. My only fear would be that they might later turn around and claim copyright over my work. You guys are going to be my prior-art witnesses should that day arrive.

(http://www.shadetreekeys.com/Models/EarlyWoodenKeyM.jpg) (http://www.shadetreekeys.com/Models/EarlyWoodenKey.jpg)

SolidWorks does not appear to be software targeted to consumers. Is this something you do professionally? Can you give me a ballpark of how long it took you to create some of those models? I doubt it's something within my price range where SketchUp fits comfortably.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on March 01, 2015, 10:03:33 PM
Awesome sketch up! I've always wanted to try it out. Is it easy?

I use solidworks almost daily for work. It is a history based software, so you can go back and change anything and it will update all the following. It is mainly sketch driven extrusions and sweeps.  I draw each part individually piece by piece, make small assemblies of the dampers and hammers and such, then one finally assembly of the entire piano. I keep creating new parts and inserting them into the assembly. Can sketchup export parasolids (.x_t), step files (.stp), or .igs files?

 If you define the material for each component, you'll get accurate properties like mass. You can create BOMs too. Also a great simulation program. I've been trying to get the action working correctly when I press a key, but we don't have the full seat of simulation so i have to make do. 

Oh an id say the knob took about 20 minutes or so to draw. I measure and sketch at the same time.

I think it would be cool to 3D print these knobs with glow-in-the-dark plastic.

PSS. Dassault systems, the owners of solidworks, released free CAD software called Draftsight. It is identical to autocad and totally free. Great 2D drafting software.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: Student Rhodes on March 02, 2015, 12:24:13 AM

(http://www.shadetreekeys.com/Models/EarlyWoodenKeyM.jpg) (http://www.shadetreekeys.com/Models/EarlyWoodenKey.jpg)

I like that you modeled it on the late '71 to early '73 shell with the extra angle in the side panels. 

For my money, the pianos from this era, with the earlier Torringtons, have the most desirable definitive Rhodes sound.  They still have some of the the punch found in the Raymacs, but have a little more air to them for the pretty stuff.   Yet, they don't seem as "ting-a-ling" as the later Rhodes keys, which seemed to progressively sound thinner with each passing year. 
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: David Aubke on March 02, 2015, 07:33:59 AM
Awesome sketch up! I've always wanted to try it out. Is it easy?
Exceedingly. At least it's easy to learn to use but...
Oh an id say the knob took about 20 minutes or so to draw. I measure and sketch at the same time.
That knob would have taken me many hours to draw. Creating those curved surfaces and grooves is a very time-consuming process for me. There are built-in tools and also user-created extensions that provide shortcuts but they always end up causing issues that require sloppy fixes to clean up. I pretty much draw each line by hand so that I can maintain control. The only shortcuts I use are copy and paste.

PSS. Dassault systems, the owners of solidworks, released free CAD software called Draftsight. It is identical to autocad and totally free. Great 2D drafting software.
My dad used to design retail store display fixtures and I have some experience with AutoCAD.

I like that you modeled it on the late '71 to early '73 shell with the extra angle in the side panels.
Many of the individual pieces are drawn from the same 1973 but several others are from different years.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on March 02, 2015, 12:10:27 PM
I watched a few videos of sketchup and it looks great for quick sketching. Is it editable after you make a change, as in "un-doable?"

Here are the steps I took to create the knob. See picture below.
First I made a cyclinder by extruding a circle. Then a revolved extrusion of the knob head sketch. After that I drew the"V" for the ribbing cutouts, swept that profile along a path (blue line) to cutout the groove. And finally, did a circular pattern to copy that groove 160 times around the part, spaced evenly.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: David Aubke on March 02, 2015, 12:20:17 PM
First I made a cyclinder by extruding a circle.
Same sorta thing in SketchUp.

Then a revolved extrusion of the knob head sketch.
Don't know what that means (but I guess I can see from the image).

After that I drew the"V" for the ribbing cutouts, swept that profile along a path (blue line) to cutout the groove.
Supposed to be able to do that in SketchUp - they call it the "Follow Me" tool - but I can never get it to work for me.

And finally, did a circular pattern to copy that groove 160 times around the part, spaced evenly.
This sounds like trouble to me. I'd never be able to get that to work out exactly right. I make screw threads by building a single lap around the shaft then copying that piece until I have the length I want but beyond that, I got so tired of trying to finagle the special shape tools that I would just rather sit there and draw each line myself.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: David Aubke on March 02, 2015, 12:28:45 PM
Is it editable after you make a change, as in "un-doable?"
Well, SketchUp does have the standard Undo command but it does not maintain a history outside of volatile memory - i.e., you can't open an old file and start stepping back through changes.

I use solidworks almost daily for work. It is a history based software, so you can go back and change anything and it will update all the following

I'm not certain I understand what this means. In SketchUp, I create "Components" for things like the hammers for which many duplicates are needed. If I change one instance of the Component, that change will be reflected in all other instances.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on August 29, 2015, 10:54:54 PM
pedal - kinda
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: jbennett on August 30, 2015, 08:21:42 AM
These are looking really great.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on September 10, 2015, 08:30:51 PM
The last of the pedal
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: robert on September 15, 2015, 12:46:11 PM
great project! keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on September 16, 2015, 12:01:11 PM
look at that piece of action!
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: robert on September 20, 2015, 04:23:18 PM
wow could you use this model for an animation? I bet it would be very cool to demonstrate the action as part of a video explaining all about how the wurlitzer works. very detailed work you've done!
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on September 20, 2015, 08:36:50 PM
I can use this model for animation, but sadly we don't have the full seat of Solidworks simulation; we just have simple static loads. So I can tell you how much force would break the wurlitzer in half, but I can't tell you how hard you need to play a key to break a reed (yet!).
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on November 06, 2015, 11:45:40 AM
action coming together
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on February 24, 2017, 08:56:21 AM
Behold the (probably) first 3D printed Wurlitzer volume knob! Next will be the jewel light.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: David Aubke on February 24, 2017, 09:19:50 AM
That looks really good.

Are you able to provide any information about how a fella like me might go about having a small run of widgets printed? Are there services? Or is 3D printing still not used for actual production runs, regardless of how small?

I've toyed with the idea of having a batch of simple Rhodes pickup mounts for DIY winding rigs made up.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: Tim W on February 24, 2017, 10:40:48 AM
Looks great Cinnamon!

We actually had our prototype knobs 3D printed about 4 years ago before committing to purchasing injection mold tooling.
However, the resolution and finish of 3D at that time was not quite as nice as it is now (ours had fine lines in it, like it was printed by an old dot matrix printer (rememebr those?).  I still have the prototypes somewhere...

The harder part of that whole project was actually getting the springs and the inlays made.  You can get cheap, or you can get good.  Rarely both.

We did the same for the lamp jewels also, we have them in original orange and clear- and the clips that hold them in too!

3D printing services are available in many places now, just Google it!
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on February 24, 2017, 10:42:22 AM
Im sure there are services out there that would print them up for you, in larger quantities. You can print as many parts as you can fit on the table at once, it just takes longer. How many are you looking for?  I may be able to print you one.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on February 24, 2017, 10:46:53 AM
Looks great Cinnamon!

We actually had our prototype knobs 3D printed about 4 years ago before committing to purchasing injection mold tooling.
However, the resolution and finish of 3D at that time was not quite as nice as it is now (ours had fine lines in it, like it was printed by an old dot matrix printer (rememebr those?).  I still have the prototypes somewhere...

The harder part of that whole project was actually getting the springs and the inlays made.  You can get cheap, or you can get good.  Rarely both.

We did the same for the lamp jewels also, we have them in original orange and clear- and the clips that hold them in too!

3D printing services are available in many places now, just Google it!

Thanks Tim! But I guess you beat me to it! This was done on a Form Labs Form 2 printer at a resolution of .001" layers.  The finest it can go. Virtually no lines. I like this printer over the typical "3D hot glue gun" style printers. I really just did it to see how good it would look.  The clear looks cool too. They have glow-in-the-dark resin too.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on March 03, 2017, 08:47:34 AM
Some more parts
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: Tehu on March 07, 2017, 03:00:36 PM
Great work!! I'm planning to 3D print knobs too, which material do you use?
Expecially for the fit with the pot pin?

Thanks
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on February 01, 2018, 05:35:20 PM
Bass reedbar partially complete.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: robert on February 20, 2018, 07:10:44 PM
Looking great! I'm just imagining a world in which you could 3d print the majority of a wurlitzer in clear plastic now :)
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pianotuner steveo on February 21, 2018, 07:31:21 AM
You could sell that outer cable part that you made (the piece that goes on the outside of the pedal cable and touches the bottom of the piano)  you can not get this (original) part anywhere.... 206's did not have this part, so people who chop them need this.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: Tim Hodges on February 21, 2018, 07:48:02 AM
I love seeing the progress on this, really impressive stuff.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on February 21, 2018, 01:26:28 PM
You could sell that outer cable part that you made (the piece that goes on the outside of the pedal cable and touches the bottom of the piano)  you can not get this part anywhere.... 206's did not have this part, so people who chop them need this.

Vintage vibe and Ken Rich actually make this part, and have been for some time now. The VV ones are cast like the originals and the Ken Rich ones look totally CNC machined.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pianotuner steveo on February 25, 2018, 03:53:18 PM
I meant that you can't buy originals anymore.

I don't ever look at those websites so I didn't know that reproductions were being made by others.


Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pianotuner steveo on February 25, 2018, 04:08:21 PM
Ok, so I looked at the VV and Ken Rich sites, and those parts are $30 and $45 respectively, plus shipping.
You or someone else could make these with a 3D printer and sell them for less. I certainly wouldn't  pay $30-$45 plus shipping if I needed one- I'd make something first- and I'm pretty sure I did make one once out of an L bracket for a 120.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on February 26, 2018, 01:41:42 PM
Ok, so I looked at the VV and Ken Rich sites, and those parts are $30 and $45 respectively, plus shipping.
You or someone else could make these with a 3D printer and sell them for less. I certainly wouldn't  pay $30-$45 plus shipping if I needed one- I'd make something first- and I'm pretty sure I did make one once out of an L bracket for a 120.

The printer I used prints plastic that is sort of brittle, so I wouldn't recommend using that material. There are other softer materials (even castable materials! hmmm...) that 3D printers can use.

I've use the VV ones and they work great. I've see all sorts of gizmos and gadgets that have been used in lieu of that piece but IMHO none work as well as the original or their replacements. Have yet to use the Ken Rich one; they look completely CNC machined.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: Tonewheel on March 28, 2018, 05:23:29 PM
Hi Cinnamon,

Just caught this thread.

As a hobby, I have a CNC router, using ArtCam Insignia as the software. You could very easily do every wooden part in a Wurlitzer and Rhodes using this method. And with precision. You could also do key caps starting with the flat stock and have the CNC router do this. And you don't need to pay the heavy cost of ArtCam software as there are less expensive competitors.

Congratulations on your progress.

Dave
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: elihu252 on April 20, 2018, 07:45:11 PM
Are these models for download yet? I'm a 3D animator and would love to make some cool Wurly animations in my free time.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: mickeyziggyk on April 29, 2018, 01:42:26 PM
Great stuff; do you do it by taking measurements from real pieces? Or is that just part of the process of rendering it virtually?

Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on April 29, 2018, 08:33:47 PM
Yea I measure them with a CMM. Which models do you want? I may not want to give out certain ones 😜
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: mickeyziggyk on April 30, 2018, 05:54:52 AM
Wow, I never knew these machines existed. I thought you'd be using a compass and a ruler lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinate-measuring_machine

I was curious about the process you are following to achieve these results you have been sharing; thank you for the kind offer. I may take you up on that one day.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pablotiburcio on June 07, 2018, 09:24:40 AM
Are these models for download yet?? Thank you!
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pablotiburcio on June 11, 2018, 09:44:07 AM
Is there a 3D model for a stacker?
Would be nice to print it and stack up a keyboard on top of Wurly!!
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pablotiburcio on June 13, 2018, 07:14:40 PM
Here is the 3D model of the stackers, with the measurements I found of a Wurlitzer 200a in sketchup.
However, I think these measures are not correct. If you can pass the top cover model with the exact measurements, I can adjust it. The idea is to print them on a 3D printer.

If someone wants the template in skp, request via message.
I'm trying to convert to Cura.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pablotiburcio on June 13, 2018, 10:45:09 PM
I just need to confirm the measurements to print it  ;D

Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: pablotiburcio on June 17, 2018, 09:15:52 PM
Updates:
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on February 22, 2019, 11:45:46 AM
Working on the reedbar now. Baby steps...
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: Alex Billbao on March 23, 2020, 02:35:06 AM
Hello, i'm Alex, 33yo french musicien. I bought an incomplete 200. Several parts are missing (more than 1300€ if i buy and import from US all that is missing). I try to rebuild what i can, especially parts that can't be bought.

I try hard to find a complete 200 or relative to mesure, but up to this day, those who have one did not allowed me to open and do surgery for anatomic measurement ! And nos i'm un confinement (Coronavirus!).

So i call for help here. I saw the great Cinnamon's 3D work, and Tehu's DIY humshield rebuild done.

I need dimensions of:
. Hum shield
. Reed bar Shields
. external Squares witch holds the dampers axis (not sold on the web)
. All harps's screws  (a friend gave me 4 Airbus screws that fits for external fixation, that's a start !)
. little metal parts joining the 2 harps, and its RCA wiring
. 3 keybed's wood block (1 close to Output plugs, 2 on the back)
. 2 knobs
. 1 speaker
. pedal, legs, bench and musical rack are also missing.

PICTURES OF MY RESTORATION PROJECT:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nm2mfqE7Crhpoqh4A

@Cinnamon, i wrote to you a private message 1 week ago. If you or anyone can share with me some measurement or 3D parts models, it would be great.

Friends of mine have 3Dprinter and metal turning/cutting machines, all i need is .. Measurement of original parts !

Alex
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: cinnanon on March 23, 2020, 06:17:25 PM
Oh sorry I’ll look for the message.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: Tim Hodges on March 24, 2020, 05:06:43 AM
Alex, have you tried Marcel at EP-Service.nl

He may be able to source you a few parts, he has done that for me a few times.
Title: Re: Wurlitzer 200A - 3D model
Post by: Alex Billbao on March 28, 2020, 10:58:06 AM
Thanks guys .

@Cinnamon if you have a moment, i guessmy friend can extract quotes from your solidworks models .. Or if you have paperplans mare before modeling ..

@Tim, i'm abouy to find that "Marcel" from EP-Service NL.

See you next steps,
Enjoy your time "at home"
Alex