Messages

I've just salvaged a 1978 73 note stage and have about 70 working pickups.  Let me know how many you want....and approximately what you want to pay.  I'm not going to give them away, but I might be less expensive than ebay or elsewhere.

Rob

I would love to get my hands on a vox jaguar or continental combo organ.  I live in Eastern CT, I would drive with in reason.

Cascio Interstate Music in New Berlin, WI ( suburb of Milwaukee ) has a Vox Continental in very good shape.  I guess it even has the case for the legs.  Their phone number is 1-262-789-7600, or contact
Nick Perow. his email is; nperow@interstatemusic.com.  Nick is a really good guy.

Rob

I'm looking for a Peterson pre-amp for my 1976/77 Satellite Speaker System.

I've made the silly mistake of putting the damper pushrod dowel in up-side-down.  That causes the damper bar to be loose.

[I just need to know the height, or actually the thickness of the mod.  Once I get that dimention it's easy to figure out the nominal dimesnion using geometry.

But how would geometry be useful here?  Since these are half-rounds, the width is exactly twice the height. So, if you have either dimension, the other is self-evident.

Alan

Alan, You're right about the geometry.  I just wasn't thinking regarding the nominal dimensions.  The V.V. video shows the MM already installed.  It has a side shot of the key pedestal with the MM on it.  I could pause the video and use a ruler on the screen to get measurements of the pedastal - just the pedastal itself and then an over all measurment with the MM on it...then just do a proportional calculation and transfer that to the actual piano parts.

Alan, the actual kit from VV has plastic that is thicker than zip ties. I do not think a zip tie would be enough benefit to make it worth installing. I would estimate their bumps to be twice as thick as a zip tie, but also the shape of the VV bumps is more like a mini speed bump

That may well explain why Speakeasy doesn't seem to sell its zip tie kit any more. (I'll have to dig them out and look at them to see if they were thicker than a typical zip tie.)

How about these as an alternative?

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/pls/pls90885.htm

Not sure if the dimensions of that one would be right, but you can readily find inexpensive half-round styrene strips in a variety of sizes from hobby shops, since they are used for modeling.  To my eye, they look just like what VV is using in its YouTube installation video.

Which takes us back to one of the original poster's questions:  How tall is the plastic strip in the VV kit?

Alan

Alan,

Thanks for the link to the hobby site.  I live in Milwaukee and Wm. K. Walthers and their Terminal Hobby Shop is located here so I have a direct source for any building materials.  Plastruct is a nice product, but I believe the Evergreen Plastic has a wider variety of 1/2 round plastic strips.  I just need to know the height, or actually the thickness of the mod.  Once I get that dimention it's easy to figure out the nominal dimesnion using geometry.

Rob

Alan, the actual kit from VV has plastic that is thicker than zip ties. I do not think a zip tie would be enough benefit to make it worth installing. I would estimate their bumps to be twice as thick as a zip tie, but also the shape of the VV bumps is more like a mini speed bump

Remember that exact placement is crucial, and you should put new felt OVER these. The felt needs to be thin enough to retain the shape of the bumps.

If anyone wants to experiment with zip ties to see if there is a benefit, I suggest trying to slide them in underneath the pedestal felt somehow. ( xacto knife maybe)

Thanks for the input.  I'm restoring/refurbishing a 1977 suitcase piano with the felts on the hammers...not the key pedastal.  I've seen a YouTube vid from V.V. showing the MM on this type of key setup.  I was just wondering how high the bumps were to get an idea of clearance and escapement adjustments...if they need to be done.

Does any body know the dimentions of the V.V. Miracle Mod and what is is made of?  From the pictures that I've seen, it appears to be some sort of 1/2 round plastic or nylon.  Does it span the complete width of the key/hammer pedestel ( approx 3/8"), or is is shorter.  How tall is is approximately?

Looks like a cross between and old Fender Rhodes - wood harp supports - and an outside that is similar to a Whirly.

Fantastic job on the Rhodes.  I've never thought of refinishing one in a different color.  That will really stand out on the stage!!!!

I'm in the Northeast (Painted Post NY near PA) where we had the Erie, DL&W, PRR, NYC, and Lehigh Valley.  I'm partial to the DL&W because the mainline ran through my hometown before I was born and the station still stands (Nichols).  Dad is the big train nut, has a large HO layout in the extension of his house.  My brother & I had an HO layout on a 4x8 plywood table when we were kids.  Learning to fix trains taught me to fix keyboards.  Bro & I started playing music in clubs and we dropped the modeling hobby.  Now his son is getting into modeling HO.  I am showing some interest in modeling but I want to buy a house first.  Music gear is a hobby that consumes time and $$$, modeling can be just as bad.

The difference for me between model RR and music...is that I can make money with music as well as collect and repair gear.  Model railroading is an "expense hobby", and unless you're into buying and selling it's all $$$$$ out-go.

Rob

Right then, I'm on the case...sort of.

Got the gloss sanded off the top which was a pig of a job. sadly there was some knackering of the finishing covered up, so I had to sand the whole leather finish off.  Now it's been primed and already looks so much better.

I'm having real problems finding neoprene contact adhesive of any description. The only vinyl adhesive around seems to be the spray-on aerosol which looks like it will work too quickly. Any UK brands you can recommend?

Do they have Elmer's White Glue in GB?  That's what I use to attach the vinyl covering when I re-do a piano.

Another train nut here    I used to model when I was a kid and remember that Goo stuff well.  These days I don't model but I am still into history of trains.  What road do you model?  Gauge?

Nice to hear from another TN.  Since I've gotten back into music, building speaker cabinets, and repairing and restoring Rhodes pianos, and along with my regular job, I haven't had much time to spend on model RR for about 1 1/2 years.  I don't have a layout ( yet ) but enjoy scratch building, kit bashing, and building craftsman kits.  I'm even going to try some resin casting in the future...if I can find the time. I had the typical Lionel set when I was a kid, which went by the wayside when I discovered Aurora HO scale slot cars....still have some cars and track.  In the mid 80's I got back into MRR and HO scale...then got into N-Scale.  I'm in the process of selling off all of my HO stuff and going to stick with "N".

I live in Wisconson now, but I'm originally from Michigan and am into three RR that were in my home state; The Pere Marquette ( PM ), Chesapeake & Ohio ( C&O ), and Michigan Central ( MCRR ).  I too am into RR history, and the little town that I'm from - Sanford, MI. - has some ties with the PM and the C&O RR.

I'd like to share this with everyone on the forum;  I have just realized that an adhesive that I've been using for many years in model railroading is also great for attaching hammer tips to either the plastic or wood hammers.  It's a produce called "Goo" and it's supplied to hobby shops by a model railroad supplier and manufacturer right here in Milwaukee, WI. - Wm. K. Walthers.  This stuff works great.  It comes in a 1 oz tube and sells for under $4.00 a tube. There is also a pack of disposable "micro-tips" that you can purchase that makes glueing small pieces easy.  Here's the link to the Walther's web site and the item. http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/904-299

Goo has been around for some time and has many uses.  Being a part time model railroader I've used it in the past for gluing a lot of different materials together; metal, plastic, wood, rubber , etc. It takes very little to mate the materials, hold very firm, and is easier to remove than ACC ( super glue). I haven't done a complete piano yet, but I think that one tube might be enough to do the job.

Rob

Are you still looking for the damper bar for the 73 note?

If so, contact me Robnatgeo   at   aol  dot  com.  I may have  alead on one for you.

I hadn't seen this.  Looks interesting....and it could be way to add power to the Peterson Rhodes Suitcase Pianos.  Did you find a price?

Rob

Nothing wrong with being French...that's my heritage. I'm not sure if the plastic/wood hammer will not work in your piano.  You would have to contact the manufacturer to find out.  I'm not sure if the striking line would be affected because of the difference in the hammer angle.  Plus, the older hammers each had seperate flanges for each hammer, where as the newer hammers have a 12 hammer flange.

Sorry,  Just sold a 73 bar last Saturday

One word of caution: if you have never replaced a pickup in a Rhodes before, be very careful about how long you apply heat to the pickups terminals. The white plastic melts very easily and gets deformed if you are not careful.

Just curious, why do you think that you need to rewire them?

.

What kind of iron do you recommend?  I've always used the standard Weller pencil type with the pointed tip. I think that it concentrates the heat in a smaller area. I also use a bulb type solder sucker.

Once I finish the restoration project on the "77" Suitcase, I'm going to delve into one of the "76" stages that I bought.  One doesn't produce sound and it may be a wiring problem with the pickups...not sure.  It could also be a problem with the wiring or the pots.

I may have to rewire the pickups on a Rhodes I'm restoring. What kind of wire is used to connect the pickups.  Any supplier ideas?

Try this link direct to the online shop Real MC was using..
http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_192_20/3m_weatherstrip_adhesive___black_3m_8011.html

Thanks lots guys, you've been a big help.  Today I order a couple sets of hammer tips and grommet kits from Vintage Vibe.  I'm pulling the workings out of the case and will be redoing the vinyl.  I lucked out on this one as the vinyl on each end is good, it's just the center sections on the piano cab and cover that need replacing.

Robert

Mod: fixed image link .. no.. still broken.. remote linking is being blocked for this image. Seems to work sometimes though
Try direct link.. seems to always work.. http://www.denlorstools.com/shop/images/Minnesota_Mining_Manufacturing_3M_8011_LG.jpg

The link doesn't work.  Any suggestions at to the best glue to use to attach the hammer tips to the plastic hammers?

Rob

In the early 80's Al Jarreau released his "Breaking Away" album with "Morning" and other songs.  The Dyno Rhodes is very heavily used on the album.

"Breaking Away" was not the Dyno Rhodes. 

Tom Canning, who played on the album, confirmed it was the famous "E" model rental rhodes from Leeds Rentals.  The "E" model was the inspiration for the Dyno Rhodes.

Thank you, I stand corrected and will remove my post.

I'm starting phase two of my 1977 Rhodes Suitcase refurbish/restoration and need to replace the hammer tips.  Anyone have any tips ( no pun intended ) as to a good way to remove the old tips from the plastic hammers, and what kind of adhesive is bet to attach the new hammer tips?

Rob

If you like the MXR Phase 90, try a Behringer PH9.  Nice copy of te MXR and inexpensive too.  Usually on eBay for $29.95 and some sellers have no shipping.  Runs on 9V battery or external power supply from Behringer.

If you like the sound of the MXR Phase 90, try a Behringer PH9.  Nice inexpensive alternative to the MXR ( $29.95 on eBay and one sellor has free shipping).  Runs on 9V battery or with a Behringer power supply.

Try a Behringer PH9.  Nice copy of the MXR Phase 90 and sells for $29.95 on eBay.  Some sellors have free shipping.  Runs on 9V battery or power supply.

I guess Wisconsin would be out of the question for a pick up? I have a 1977, Suitcase 73 that I'm in the process of a restore/refurbish.  Should be finished in about 6 weeks.

Rob

congratz on a great find and getting a great deal!  keep us posted on their restorations...

Thank you.  I'm 60 years old and have been playing and repairing Rhodes ever since 1973.  I now have 4, all of them 73 note, 1 Suitcase and 3 stage pianos.  All will be refurbished/restored and put up for sale. I love the sound but I'm getting too old to carry them around any longer.

Acting on a tip from a fellow musician, I went to the local vintage guitar shop.  The owner of the shop had 2 Rhodes 73 note stage pianos that he had acquired through trades.  Since the store is into selling only guitars, amps, and related gear, he didn't want to have to deal with them and said they were taking up valuable floor space in the store.  He made me an offer I couldn't refuse...$600.00 out the door for both!!!

Both are 1976 vintage.  The outsides are in average condition with a couple of rough spots here and there, but the insides are clean.  Both have complete legs sets and cross braces ( although one front leg need some repair ), original black sustain pedals and the sustain rods.  Both are missing the cross brace lock knobs, and one is missing 2 handles.   One of them does not make sound but I think its the controls or a broken pick-up wire, and there are a couple of broken tines in each piano. All in all they are solid and restorable.

Tuning a Rhodes has always had it followers in two camps; to stretch or not to stretch.  Personally I use a tuner to do the range from about A 220 to A 880...then use my ear to tune the octaves, which turn out to be closer to equal temperment than stretch.  Everyone's ear is different, but I think that tuning to equal temperment octaves is the best for a Rhodes. Then on the other hand, is the Rhodes set up primarily to fundimental tone settings, or do you have a lot of overtones dialed in?  That also affects the tuning to some degree.  

Remember that stretch tuning is used for accoustic pianos due to the nature of the way an accoustic piano vibrates, and the sympathetic vibrations of the un-dampened strings affect the final sound. Also and accoustic has multiple strings throughout most of it's entire range.  This affects the way we hear sound pitches.

A Rhodes is an electro-mechanical instrument with one sound generating source per note so equal temperment seems to be the prefered tuning method.  After all, an organ or synthesizer are not stretch tuned.

Aren't the alignment cups the same as the stage sustain rod guide bushing?

I'm not sure if they are.  I'd have to see one to compare it to the alignment cup that I have. 

Thanks for the idea.

Rob

Some people fall into it and come out smelling like a rose.  CONGRATS!!!!

I'm looking for a pair of the allignment cups that fit on the top of the Suitcase Piano bottom.  These are the plastic cups into which the sphynx glides / metal feet on the bottom of the Suitcase Piano top fit into to keep the top from sliding, and to allign the top so the sustain rod is in proper allignment.  I've tride to find sliding door pulls, but nothing that I've seen so far will work.

Rob

Gotcha.

Obligatory reminiscence of bygone era:
My 80's rig had a pair of JBL 3-way cabinets with a 15. Sensitivity rating on those was in the mid 90dB range (1W at 1m blah blah blah). It would split your wig with even a 50W amp driving it. Never bothered to biamp that setup.

I know what you mean about the older speaker and their SPL.  The S4115H that we used were rated at 101 db at
1w/1 m.  Had 4 of them in a stereo setup - two per side.  Older JBL Cabarets and other JBL speakers, and the older Yamahas were really efficient...but were hernia makers.

Can anyone name some hit songs that used a Dyno?  Can only think of one, and I'm not 100% sure if that even was a Dyno. Richard Tee played it....

Dyno's were absurbly expensive.  Back in the early 80's, Samson - the same company that makes the wireless microphones - came out with a 9V battery powered active circuit board called the WY Frequency Booster which enhansed the presence of the Rhodes sound. The board replaced the stock Rhodes stage controls. It had a volume knob and a set of concentric Treble/Bass cut and boost controls that looked like the vibrato controls on a Peterson pre-amp Rhodes - the ring was bass boost and cut, and the center knob was treble.  Great sound, and at the time was only $119.00.  Since I was doing Rhodes repairs at the time, I installed a lot of these for other musicians.  There were other companies that made something similar...but they did not compare with the Samson. I put one in my 1976 stage in 1981....it's still there and works great. The only thing that had to be done was to adjust the pick-up volumes ( the WY made the signal really hot) and adjust the overtones.

I suppose that the easiest would be to borrow/rent an active crossover and try your proposed biamp configuration.

I'm positive it will work, I just highly doubt there's a benefit.

Back in my stage days, we biamped our (itty-bitty) FOH rig. The goal was to achieve clarity (mostly of the vocals) without excessive volume.

I'm not clear what your biamp "goal" would be.

Rob A.

Thanks for your input.  Back in my stage days ( 1976 stage 73 - Samson WY Frequency booster - stereo phase shifter) I went directly through the main stereo sound system ( played in duos and trios so this was acceptable ).  We were using Yamaha S4115H speakers / 15's and horns.  Sounded great.  But now I'm trying to make my rig smaller.  I'd like to run a pair of Satellite slaves for EP and organ and would like to get a wider range out of the cabs using 12's.  I was hoping that by running a 12" bass speaker, and a 12" guitar speaker like a JBL K or E 120, that I could get a wider frequency response and more clarity.

Rob,
   take a look at the other Robs details on what he did to his suitcase for a bright mod. Bound to be the same approach here with the satellites.

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=3217.0

Thank you for the link to the information.  I'm not a big fan of Piezo's, and since the Satellites had two 12's I though by splitting the frequency..say about 200 or 300hz...between a bass and regular speaker a good separation could be achieved without haveing to go to tweeters.

Thanks,

Rob

Has anyone ever heard of the Satellite Speaker Cabs being modified so that there were two different 12" speakers - one for bass and one for highs - and then have a passive crossover to split the signal frequencies between the two?   The original speakers would have to be replaced. Any ideas as to if it would work or not  I'm thinking a JBL 2022 for the bass side and maybe a JBL K-120 for the highs.  That modification would be very expensive using JBL's.  Can anyone think of other speakers - Jensens, Celestions, etc.  that might do the job?

Rob

Vintage Vibe will be selling our replacement tines at some point next month in April-

 It's been a long 3 years in unraveling the mysteries of tine making. Unfortunately there was no recipe left for anyone in the world it seems. After years of interviews with techs, scholars, past Rhodes employees, machinist and metallurgists we have a tine that sounds dam good, better than any aftermarket tine we have heard and on par with the originals to the point you cannot tell an original from a reproduction.

We fashioned the look after my favorite era of tine which was 1974-75, I call it the golden era. They plated the blocks yellow zinc for one year and I think they look great, it's always a special occasion when I open a Rhodes and see a full set.  We can sell them with the gold plate or in white zinc plate if you prefer.  Ultimatly the tone is what matters. We hope this will put an end to Rhodes pianos being butchered for tines and to put ebay butchers to bed. In the past it has been a necessary evil, but hopefully with a well priced tine this will end.

We have been testing them in our pianos for some time now and we are very happy with the results. We think we brought to the Fender Rhodes tine what we brought to the Wurlitzer reeds and that is a dead on replacement.

Our Tines are made in the USA with the original Torrington swaging dies made by the head die maker at Torrington before he retired.

Now the $64000.00 question....where do we order...and ho much$$$$$

Rob 

Would a Z stand be strong enough?

A cheap one no...a good Ultimate Support "Z" stand works just fine.  I have a Suitcase Top sitting on one right now.....no problems.  The 73 note suitcase piano top weighs in at around 140# with the case top off.  The heavy duty "Z" stand will support over 200#...no problems.

[mod edit: sections removed for rules compliance]

I'm not sure why there is any debate at all regarding the Rhodes' Mk I, II, V, etc. and that new thing that calls itself a Rhodes.  
[...]
 I much prefer the nice warm mellow tones of my 1976 Stage and my 1977 Suitcase.  Even the treble has a nice round tone...[...]


_{mod edit: sections removed for rules compliance}

There's my 1980(?) Rhodes Mark 1 Stage Piano(lot of work to do), i paid 200$CAN for it 1 months ago. i'll make restoration inside(tuning, adjust..) then outside (brand news hardware, logos etc..) for now he didn't get the perfect sound, but it'll come!! in 4-5 month i'll post other pictures to show  all the work!

Nice Rhodes Stage...but I think it is older than 1980.  By 1980 the Mark II was in production.  Check on the upper right corner of the harp...there should be a 4 digit number in black.  The last two digits will be the production year; ex. 4777  would be 1977,  2676 would be 1976.

Rob

Excellent, thanks Rob.

I hadn't really thought much about replacing the screws/washers but after seeing your pictures there's no doubt it's worth doing.  I've got an Ace nearby so I'll check them out.

I know that partsisparts.net has a grill cloth that appears to be very similar to the one you used, they refer to it as "Fender Silver with Blue" and it's about the same price.  It's really hard to tell if there's any difference from the pictures on the internet so I just need to decide which one of those to go with.  Thanks again for the detailed info on the screws/washers.

I just checked out the silver/blue grill cloth on Parts-is Parts, and it looks nice.  The blue isn't as pronounced as on other silver/blue cloth that I've seen.  It would make a very nice looking cabinet.....just don't buy the turquoise 

Very nice!  I'm in the process of restoring a '77 suitcase as well and have just recently been thinking about doing the grill cloth.  Mind if I ask who you sourced your grill cloth and the screws/washers from?

I bought the grill cloth from parts-express.com.  It's part number 261-805 / black-white-silver Fender style grill cloth.  It's on sale now for $15.90 per Yd.  It's 36" wide and you will need to purchase 3 yards to do both sides of the speaker cabinet.

The screws are #8 - 1 1/2" oval head phillips stainless steel.  I bought mine at my local True Value Hardware, but you can also get them at Ace Hardware. Their about $.25 each, but I like them much better than the standard steel screws.  Places like Lowes, Home Depot, and Menards do not handel these.  The cup / finishing washers are #8's.  I bought those from the same hardware store.  Home Depot and Lowes carries cup washers  in 100 count packs, but the ones I got at the hardware seem to be made of a little heavier gauge metal with a nicer finish.  they were about $.18 each..but well worth the extra.

Rob

Rather than trying to cut up a suitcdase bottom, why not build one from scratch.  It isn't that difficult.  You could used the factory bottom as a guide for the construction of your ""54" bottom and you could build it so both front and rear baffles were removeable.  I think you may have a problem getting 4 speakers in the shorter bottom with the power modules, but I would have to do some measuring to to see if it could be done.  All the hardware and parts from the factory bottom could be used.

[Both the baffles are completely removable, the front baffle (facing the audience) has roughly 14 screws which keep it in place all around the edge. The baffle nearest the player is held in using velcro tabs and some more screws too.]

1)  Both the baffles are completely removable, the front baffle (facing the audience) has roughly 14 screws which keep it in place all around the edge. The baffle nearest the player is held in using velcro tabs and some more screws too.  I beg to differ with your statement.  You are correct regarding the front baffle..which is held in place with 12 screws; however, the rear baffle is built into the case...only the rear gril cloth frame is held in place with the velcro tabs.  I've just finished restoring a 1977 suitcase bottom and several of the machine screws for the rear speakers were stripped.  The baffle was not removable and I had to drill out all of the mounting holes and use insert nuts as a way to secure the speakers.  Actually, this is a better way to mount the speakers that the original comfigration.

Rob

To Dresdner353

How about puting the words out wuith the chord changes in.

I'm still trying to figure out the lead-in chords.  Getting old and my hearing isn't what it once was.  Also, Anyone hve the chords to "Compaired to What" off the same album.  I want to learn that catchy riff that leads into the vocals.

Rob

Judging from the speaker dates (not serial #) I place mine at 1977. Since your master
serial # is sequentially before my slave I would guess your master is a 1977 also. The
serial# on your slave is pretty high so I don't know what to make of that. Keep in mind
I believe it was 1979 when the Janus system was introduced, so I figure you're looking
at 1978 for the latest. Pull the backs off and get the numbers off the speakers to
narrow it down a little more.

Thanks.  Now how do i determine the dat by looking at the speakers?

Rob