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Messages - cinnanon

#1
I replaced a Wurlitzer felt hammer with a Rhodes hammer (I 3D printed the adapter) and it sounded funny. That's where I stopped. The Rhodes rubber hammer just wasn't hard enough to get a Wurlitzer reed to ring out. There were more harmonics than actual sound output. Very metallic sounding. I also modeled a new reedbar that goes an octave lower because I dislike the highest octave of Wurlitzers. The swing of the reeds would have been an issue so I stopped there as well!

As for the mass issue, I always speculated that a steel reedbar would fix all resonance problems, but I have yet to try. I have friends with CNC machines and could easily write the programs, just haven't done that yet either!
#2
If you convert the jack from Mono to Stereo, BE CAREFUL. If someone unknowingly plugs in a Mono jack, the Amp signal will be shorted to ground and you'll likely blow the amp. The safer option is to make an external "Mono-to-Stereo" converter using an aluminum Hammond box or something similar.

Most amplifiers these days have dedicated Headphone circuits that can be shorted to ground without issue. The Wurlitzer Headphone signal is tapped directly off the amplifier's power output.
#3
The 6CA4 is the rectifier so your amp shouldn't be making sound (unless someone modified it with a solid-state rectifier internally.

You can absolutely convert the Speaker Out to a Line level for plugging it into your Vibro champ. The RCA Phono is  input I believe, so don't use it. The attached photo is from Vintage Vibe's 120 manual, but will work with your 145B.  "A" is your speaker signal.
#4
Try to isolate the problem by disconnecting the treble reedbar in the middle (just the pickup connection, not the ground connection). The gap on either side of the reeds is quite small, so that's normal. You should see daylight between either side of the reed and pickup when shining a flashlight underneath.
#5
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: 200A Key Reset Issue
November 30, 2022, 08:13:27 AM
In addition to the letoff, you will likely need to lubricate the action centers and ease the keys while you're in there. If it's never been worked on, setting letoff alone won't fix the problem entirely. Make sure the notes play the same way with/without the sustain pedal depressed.
#7
That tool is the correct tool for bending the pins on an acoustic piano (the front pins are for spacing, the back pins are for tilting the key left and right). But that tool will not work with a wurlitzer because you can't remove the front key slip (the large lip in front of the keys) like you can on an acoustic piano.
#8
Yes those are for the height adjustments of the keys. They range from very thin to thick. Paper is ~.004" thick. These shims go down to .001" to around .030" thick, and everything in between.  It's mostly a cosmetic thing, having the keys be exactly level and flat from the left side to the right side.

As for the regulation steps, they are very important to follow in order. Doing it in the wrong order will end up with you redoing things numerous times. Don't do anything that will cause permanent damage, especially on the key pins. Many people like to twist them to tighten up the side to side slop in the action, but this just scores the surface for the next guy.
#9
First off, read the manual. Honestly, read it twice, all the way through. Then you can go to the third party websites for tips and tricks.  Following the steps in the manual should fix your mechanical issues. Don't worry about the signal until you get to tuning/voicing. You're regulating the action, getting it freed up and moving correctly, dialed in, etc. The paper shims are for setting the proper key height. Yes they are very thin. They range from thick to thin. Removing them just un-leveled all your keys (look from the side, they are probably all wonky now). That's a time consuming job. Read the manual before digging into anything else that may waste time later.

Having the right tools is paramount. Capstan wrench is needed. Paper shims also. Spare reeds potentially. Check for broken pieces of action too. There's a lot that goes into this, but dig in and have fun. If there's shims under the reedbar holes, take note of where they were. And most importantly, take your time!
#10
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Model 206 questions
September 27, 2022, 12:13:54 PM
Quote from: Autistic Piano Guy on September 10, 2022, 03:49:33 PMSomething about this Wurly:
Model 206. Serial 69893L.

That's 1972, not 82.

There is an order to all the steps in the manual. Make sure you follow those steps in completion before continuing and you should be fine. It took me many pianos before finally getting the process down.
#11
Those pyramids look fine. Some of the earlier models have excellent symmetric pyramids and equal tone across the keyboard. I have heard 77 was a year of bad quality.
#12
Quote from: pianotuner steveo on June 03, 2021, 01:37:19 PM
Double striking can be a letoff issue, yes.

I never realized this. Would letoff being too close or too far cause this?
#14
I'd just get a Retrolinear or VV amp and forget about it. Way more reliable. Those original amps are an antiquated design anyway.
#15
Quote from: nathancripps on February 23, 2021, 02:42:24 PM
the jack itself was disconnected from the port/hole/cutout in the block.
This really isn't an issue for anything other than proper grounding (unless you have some wires crossing or touching something they shouldn't be).

It sounds like you have some loose connections or someone has had their hands in there.  I would study the schematic until it makes sense, and then troubleshoot.

As a quick reference, when nothing is plugged into the cheekblock headphone jack, the speaker signal passes through the jack and to the positive terminals on the speakers.

When anything is plugged into this jack, the signal is sent two ways:
1. Through an 8 ohm 5 watt resistor (for loading the amp) and then to the negative terminal of the speakers.
2. Through a 470-ohm resistor (this resistor may only be present on 200 models) and then to the tip of the jack (to be sent to headphones).

Take a moment to research schematic symbols and it will help you out tremendously.
#16
The 1/4" jack on the back is *supposed to be* a Speaker out jack (same signal that goes to the internal speaker) but should not disengage the internal speaker. The 1/4" jack on the cheek block is supposed to be a Headphone jack (this is the one that mutes the internal speaker). What did you plug into the back jack?
#17
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: 270 line out
February 02, 2021, 12:14:35 PM
The AUX out jack is underneath, towards the back. I can't recall if it actually has a headphone out on it too. If it doesn't, it's easy to do. It's just tapped off the speaker signal before the speakers. Look at the 200A schematics.
#18
2-1/2" swivel casters with a 3/8" threaded stem (should be 3/8-16 threads). Some stems are too long so you'll have to cut it down to length. There are many types online.
#19
Quote from: bourniplus on January 26, 2021, 08:50:57 PM
All this brings another question to mind: how much should hammer-to-tine distance be?

I think the more important thing is to get the escapement set/shimmed correctly (when your tonebars are set back to the standard 3/8" height). If that's correct then your hammer-to-tine distance should be fine.

One thing about the bump mod, if you have the era piano with the white felts on the hammer cams (and you remove those and intend on installing the bump mod with felt overtop on the key pedestal) then your escapement / key dip is going to change when the mod is complete (assuming you're using a thinner pedestal felt than the white hammer cam felt). Your escapement should increase slightly, and your key dip should increase slightly as well. So with that said, when you actually do the miracle mod, you're supposed to set the key height first (and key dip). Don't do this without any felt on the key pedestal (remove the hammer cam felt though). Cut a piece of pedestal felt and rest it on top of the key pedestal to simulate what it's going to be like. Do your leveling/key dip, then do the mod.
#20
Quote from: goldphinga on January 24, 2021, 03:38:04 PM
Thick back rail felt is the secret sauce I use. But you have to also mod the entire rest of the action. The results make any Rhodes play better than ever before. But you have to REALLY know your stuff to make it work. Once you crack it, there's no going back...

I did this thinking it was a mistake at first, but I went with it. I had to use the thickest balance rail felts I could find just to get the key height back to normal (I supposed I could have shimmed the balance rail but this is a 77 stage and only has two screws holding the action down). I also had to use thick front rail felts too.
#21
Page 27 of a manual found online
#22
It's a 720 or 720A due to only having two knobs on the left cheek block (from what I can tell). The 720B had two knobs, an audio jack and a pilot light.  The 726 had a knob and some toggle switches, and a pilot light too.
#23
Hey, the 3D modeler here... I do still have the models but when I first made them, I really had no intention of giving them away or even selling them. It was all in the spirit of fun, and just seeing if I could do it.

I have used the models for many many things, including making new pedal boxes, designing a new reedbar for reeds one octave lower on the bass end, and just 3D printing parts that I need here and there. I've also printed an adapter for a Rhodes rubber hammer tip to adapt to a Wurlitzer hammer. Very metallic sound.

Anyways, I hope you understand, and I wish you luck in your endeavour.
#24
Quote from: jwc44 on September 16, 2020, 01:43:43 PM
I am making some new shims for the aluminum harp supports as the particle board is a bit too thick on top.

That's exactly what I had to do on the first one. The next one I did I had to add shims on top of the particle board.
#25
Quote from: jwc44 on September 08, 2020, 09:22:09 PM
replaced the back felt

How thick is this back felt? Where'd you get it? Was it thicker than what was there before? Thicker back felt reduces keydip directly.

When I replaced the back felt with a thicker felt, I had to use thicker balance rail felts to get the key fronts higher, and I had to use thinner front rail felts to get the proper key dip.

Also, what is your current key height (to the underside of the front lip)
#26
Quote from: jam88 on August 25, 2020, 12:34:16 PM
Is this just more mythology? Or can someone actually document dimensional differences between 200 and 200A reeds?

https://www.vintagevibe.com/blogs/news/wurlitzer-electric-piano-reeds-case-study
#27
Bark = early 200
The 200's have slightly thinner reeds than the 200A's
#28
Quote from: OZDOC on October 26, 2014, 07:27:08 PM
It took Rhodes many years to work through these issues.
Look forward to hearing your progress in 2020:-)
The tine has come
#29
Did you try a tone bar clip?
Is the tineblock tightened firmly?
#30
If the buzz goes away when the pickups are unplugged, turn your lights off nearby to see if it goes away. If not, check the grounding further on the reedbar.
#31
That is good to hear actually, that's kinda what I thought would happen.
#32
If you play them side by side (one modded, one original) you'll be convinced.
#33
I did the bump mod on mine as well (same model, same year). It's difficult removing the hammer cam felts but everything else is easy. An issue with your approach, though it seems it's the same, is that you still have a wood-on-felt situation which is what the bump mod is supposed to be getting rid of. You'll also see tiny indents in the hammer cam felt created by this "just-the-bump" condition over time which may completely negate the bump mod you just did, and it may  be even harder to play a note than it was before you had installed the bumps at all. I think if this method would have worked, Rhodes would have instituted many decades ago since it is far easier.

To each their own, but this method will definitely cause some head scratching down the road (maybe even yours too!).
#34
Oh man they are nearly *impossible* to find in unrestored condition.
#35
Steveo I'll post a picture shortly.
#36
Steveo, the keysticks are longer in the 720 consoles than the portables. Other than that, identical.
#37
Oh sorry I'll look for the message.
#38
That's odd that some felts are affected while others are not. If I saw that, I'd still lube everything for good measure. The acid test is to release the damper on a note and then play it. If it doesn't return after a soft keystroke and soft release, then the action centers will need lubed.
#39
Yes I'm referring to lubing the action centers. The hardest part about removing the action are the damper arm grommets. Doing this makes everything much more accessible.
#40
I use those needle medical syringes like the ones used for giving shots. Pin point accuracy and reduced waste. I take the dampers off, harps off, then the rest of the action off in one piece (5 screws fasten it to the base and two screws hold it to the bracket in the back. From there it's easy peezy.
#41
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: 200 Speaker Glue?
February 23, 2020, 08:43:55 AM
I would
#42
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: 200 Speaker Glue?
February 21, 2020, 04:39:35 PM
Two bolts hold the speaker to the rail. They used silicone to dampen vibration in between the speaker and the mounting plates. . Is this what you mean?
#43
You can 100% plug a dummy plug into the headphone jack to safely disable the speakers with nothing on the other end. Just put an 1/8" female to 1/4" male adapter plug in there. There's an 8 ohm 5 watt resistor that becomes "in-circuit" when anything is plugged in. Check if that resistor is still there though. I have seen it removed on rare rare occasions. It will look like a rectangular block almost an inch long.
#44
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Dating a Wurlitzer
January 21, 2020, 05:31:32 PM
I think therein lies the confusion. You should have received some narrower damper felts for the higher notes. The website states Mid Felt: Keys 1-46, Treble Felt: Keys 47-55

What did you receive (or not receive) exactly?
#45
Great details, but I think you've mistaken what you were actually doing (no offense!). You've basically "un-torqued" the reedbar. Though this does change the height of the reed bar, more importantly you've relieved any stress the screws/brackets put on the reedbar. It's one of the hardest things to track down. Usually you fix certain notes, only to have another area become plagued with dullness.
#46
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Vibrato Knob
January 06, 2020, 03:09:02 AM
It should control the depth, but gradually. Sounds like you have the wrong taper pot in there with the Warneck amp.
#47
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: 206a - no sound
October 21, 2019, 10:47:27 PM
Check if you have signal through the aux out first. That signal is tapped before the power amp section (where you're hearing the whoofing noise). Also, does the noise get louder and softer with the volume knob?
#48
Do you have a grounding wire that connects the damper mechanism to the reedbar? It snakes through the middle.
#49
How cool is that polisher! I wonder how it does on the oblong front rail pins.  Seems like they would tear it up?

As for reporting to VV, I have not. It states on their website that they are 1" springs. I bought these a year or two ago and don't know what the description said at the time. I know 1" springs will fit and have some coming today actually. I just don't know if they will buckle due to being too long.
#50
I did try their jack springs... unfortunately they are too big as well. As for that tool, that is quite interesting... do you have to use a polishing compound of some sort??