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Messages - jam88

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1
There's a lot of low end...I mean that complex harmonic content,
Fact is, with Wurlitzers, there really ISN'T complex harmonic content, particularly in the middle registers.


The 200A series(including 206A) uses thicker reeds than the 140s and non A 200s.

Is this just more mythology? Or can someone actually document dimensional differences between 200 and 200A reeds?

2
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 120 Line Out
« on: August 11, 2020, 07:02:42 AM »
I mic'ed the speaker...

Heck yeah. It works for this guy--

3
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 120 Line Out
« on: August 09, 2020, 12:56:43 PM »
Least obtrusive... Headphone jack to ART ZDirect DI box to Danelectro Tuna Melt Tremolo to amp or board. About 70 bucks total, no soldering haha

4
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 700 help
« on: August 08, 2020, 09:10:15 AM »
... late '59 120...

Reed bar spacer mystery--
Our pianos were made about the same time. Does your piano have wooden spacers at each end under the reed bar?

Mine does. I've shown this picture before, the spacers are about 1/4" thick, which is the same as the damper spacers on 39-54. My spacers are loose, not glued to the reed bar mounting blocks that are part of the piano case, and not coated with black shielding paint.

Has anyone else seen spacers like this?

I believe these spacers are standard from the factory, because
   --This extra elevation is necessary to locate the reeds relative to the hammers and dampers
   --I doubt that the piano had been modified before I bought it in 1967.
   --The spacers look 'manufactured', not like something a tech would make
   --The spacers are made of blockboard, not plywood or solid wood. Unusual material, but common to Wurlitzer. The keybed of the 120's case is made from 1/2" blockboard.

Speaking of blockboard, a little off-topic, but the construction of the 120 cases is really solid. They're NOT 'particle board'. If you've never seen one stripped: they are cold-molded plywood on the blockboard base, screwed together with tons of c'sunk #10 wood screws, filled and sanded before the application of the awesome ;) Zolatone.

5

The foam idea is neat, but how do you regulate the dip? Do you have standard paper/ cardboard punchings under the foam?
Steveo is right, the first most important tool to have with a 120 is the letoff tool. There is a guy on ebay that has the perfect tool at a good price ;-) This tool can be hard to find, otherwise.

As far as the key dip: the thickness of the compressed foam is negligible. It doesn't really affect the key dip. The keys COULD be shimmed in the traditional manner, but in the 53 years I've owned this piano, none of the white keys were ever shimmed for key dip. If there were a fraction of a millimeter difference from one key to another, I'd never know!

The foam definitely removes the 'hard as a piece of wood' feel from the action. (This isn't as necessary on the black keys, because the player has significantly less mechanical advantage due to the shorter lever arm length of the black keys.)

 

6
Just to add a little to what Steveo said...
The black keys don't have front rail punchings either; they have little felt blocks ("Sharp Stop Felt") on the underside of each sharp key. (See illustration)  Over time, this felt can get pretty compressed from smacking the small area of the flathead screw. I took strips of soft felt and laid them over the screw heads, located by the front rail pins. That felt much better.

On the subject, the action of the 120 was very light and abrupt, like riding a bicycle over a curb. So, rather than trying to weight the keys, I tried putting light foam blocks under the white-keys, over the front rail pins, to provide progressive key resistance. Using these foam blocks, the touchweight of the white keys is now just a little over 50g. Pretty easy to set up--if the weight is too high, just trim a little foam off. If you trim too much off, use another block. 

7

200A ...a slightly thicker reed on these...   

Does anyone have the details on the change in reed thickness between the 200 and 200A?
     --Which reed numbers were changed?
     --What were the thicknesses before and after the change?

8
The OP posted this (upper) picture...

For those that might have missed it, sadly, Annie Glenn passed away last week from Covid 19 at the age of 100.

9
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Is this a Wurlitzer?
« on: May 24, 2020, 11:15:12 AM »
In the intro to Aretha Franklin's 'Bridge Over Troubled Waters', is that a tube Wurlitzer, maybe a 120? Or is it a Pianet or something? My ears aren't that good anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9-yfeA2JZs

I think she used a 120 much earlier, in 'Soul Serenade', right? But it was mostly buried in the mix.

10
and then... what does it mean if a serial number has a "P" on the end?  I've only seen this on two 112A's, #7006P and #7200.
Yeah, another mystery. I thought it meant 'Pratt-Read' action, maybe not.

In my database:
     --NO 112's have a 'P' in the serial number,
     --ALL 112A's have a 'P' in the serial number.
     --Highest 112 s/n I have is 6540.
     --Lowest 112A s/n is 4954P

So there were at least ~1500 numbers that overlapped with or without 'P'.

I've got that 7200P in my collection, too! It' the highest 112A I have, before the 120's start at ~8000.

11
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Dating a Wurlitzer
« on: December 10, 2019, 08:07:24 AM »
Are you sure it's 813 and not 831?

Oops, it's '831'. The '939' lines up with the 1959 date on the rectfier tube. Thanks again, DocWurly!

12
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Dating a Wurlitzer
« on: November 26, 2019, 08:42:02 PM »
...The most surefire way to date this thing, given all the other mysteries, is by looking on the tubes in the amp.  If any of them are the originals, the years and weeks of year will be on those tubes.  The transformer might have a date code on it, too...

You’re right! PAYDIRT! Thanks, DocWurly. The (original?) Wurlitzer-labeled GE rectifier tube is dated 43rd week of 1959.

So between (1) the rectifier tube’s date code, (2) the assumption of a serial number around 20700, and (3) an optimistic interpretation of the ink stamps on the keys, maybe the piano is early to mid 1960? 

The output transformer has two row of numbers neatly pressed into the metal:
     600613-C
      813939
Any idea what these numbers mean?

 (FWIW, the RCA 6V6’s are date code ‘AT’ [Sept 65], so guess these are replacement tubes installed around 1965-66.)   

13
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Dating a Wurlitzer
« on: November 16, 2019, 10:33:19 AM »
Threads on this topic:

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=9303.msg50803#msg50803

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=9359.0
  ...With the 120 and 700, the most consistent dating I've found is a piece of handwritten masking tape hidden on the back of the reed bar.  There may be other stamps on the wood or electronics (esp speakers) in certain cases...

Hi Guys, can you help?

I’m trying to date my Model 120, and approximate the serial number.  I’ve owned my 120 for 52 years. Many years ago, the serial number plate went AWOL.

There are some numbers stamped here and there. (See pictures)—

Key #1 has a faint stamp that appears to be “2  560  20”, but could be “2  569  20”—Thoughts?

Key #3 is stamped “[C]OMPO”, anybody know what this means?

Key #57 has a stamp on the underside. Using some imagination, it LOOKS like a 1960 date stamp. The stamp style is like the date stamp in the attached 112 picture. Thoughts?

(Key #4 has a Pratt-Read [not Wurlitzer] patent number; this number also stamped on the action rail. The patent was issued Dec 30, 1958, so I guess the action was shipped from Pratt-Read no earlier than January 1959.)

Ink stamp on back of the speaker “600141”—does that mean anything?



Here’s what I DO know about my piano: it is a ‘later’ 120, that had the...
  --Painted lid, not textured film
  --Simple (not the ornate) Wurlitzer decal
  --Incandescent (not neon) lamp
  --Two-hole (not four-hole) nameplate--Does anybody know the highest serial number that used the four-hole plate, or the lowest S/N with the two-hole plate?
  --Amplifier S/N 18628. I seem to remember that the amp serial number about 2000 higher or lower than the S/N on the piano’s nameplate. Do any of you know this spread on YOUR 120’s or 700’s?

14
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurli sustain pedal issue
« on: October 18, 2019, 09:11:36 AM »
Alan, totally off topic-- Thanks, belatedly, for all your great work with the Michigan Daily. It was an interesting time to be in Ann Arbor. Great music!

(From Bob, retired in Traverse City)


15
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 700 help
« on: October 18, 2019, 08:17:56 AM »
I'm pretty sure that some were made without those wood spacers, I've seen a few without them...
Here are some damper observations from my 120.

My 120 has the damper spacers only on keys #39 and above. I assume it never had spacers on #1 thru #38. These spacers are about .250” x 250” x damper arm width.

The reed bar is spaced up with a wooden shim on each end. I presume this was from the factory. These shims are made from 6mm blockboard (NOT plywood). Have any of you seen these shims on 120’s or 700’s?

I bought this piano, S/N ~16500, in 1967, and assume it was original and unmolested when I bought it. It was like new, in the home of a pastor. It had the green foam dampers in it then.

Over the years, I’ve replaced the dampers a few times, always using regular piano damper felt from Schaff. Last time, on the 1-20 keys I used the vee-type single-string felts that are about 9/16” high overall (Schaff #1535).

16
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: My $20 Wurlitzer bench
« on: December 01, 2018, 07:43:51 AM »
Great bench! Hey, by any chance are the legs stamped 'DECAR PLASTIC CORPORATION'?

If so, that would be a fun connection to Wurlies, since Decar made the legs for the first 200's. They were primarily a manufacturer of laminated "plastic school furniture tops". (1212 N. Central Park Avenue, Chicago 51, Illinois)

 

17
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 206a - To chop or not to chop?
« on: November 03, 2018, 10:25:31 AM »
...I'd love to have it more portable to take out...

This begs the question: How many of us actually take our Wurlitzers out to gig?  (This might be heresy, but) I'm happy to just take the Nord Electro. I don't think anybody in the audience cares.

18
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 206a - To chop or not to chop?
« on: November 03, 2018, 10:17:45 AM »
I agree with cinnanon, chop but keep the parts.

I don't have the speaker cabinet for my 206, but I stashed the original "Student Electronic Piano" faceplate.

I bought my 206 from Chris Tuttle, who was Jewel's keyboard player at the time. Another 'brush with fame' haha,

Without the speaker attached, the 206 is easy to store.

19
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: My New Wurlitzer Website
« on: June 29, 2018, 09:26:40 PM »
I agree with you guys, for nearly fifty years I assumed that it was a 120 on 'I Can't Seem to Make You Mine' and 'Pushin' Too Hard'. But thru the wonders of the internet, we see Daryl Hooper with a Wurly with the 140-type case, as you note.

Does a 145 with a tube amp sound more like a 120?

Jason M


20
Here's our problem. It's never good enough... When I was a kid playing in a band, if the keyboard worked at all, that was good enough. An old Wurli or Hammond? If it plays, good enough... Sometimes good is better than best.

Having said that, I'm not going to stop reading and asking for help here.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

21
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Signal too hot for pedals
« on: April 16, 2018, 05:17:46 PM »
Neither my 120 or my 206 chop have an aux out. I play them out of the piano amp into a DI box, either a ProCo CB-1 or ART ZDirect 1 ($29 of brilliance!) Knocks the signal down for pedals/amp or directly into the board.


22
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Variable Vibrato
« on: March 29, 2018, 09:41:53 PM »
Okay, scoff if you will, but I love my redneck 'variable vibrato': I just play thru a Danelectro Tuna Melt tremolo and DI box. Thirty five bucks new, and totally variable.

Use it to record and to play live. I couldn't ask for more. Actually, I started using this with my 120, which doesn't have factory tremolo. It worked so well, I started using it with my 206 chop. On the 206, I'd activated the 'vibrato' circuit using the VV kit, but prefer the Tuna Melt.

For a REAL wobbly vibrato, I use an old Line 6 Roto Machine.

23
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Key recap? what do you think?
« on: February 19, 2018, 07:53:55 PM »
The page in adcurtain's link seems to have expired, but there is an instructive Wikipedia page at:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retr0bright   

The last Wurly I did, I brightened the keys using what I had around the house. First by rubbing the keys longwise with a paste of Zud on a piece of old terrycloth towel. This whitened them and really got the crud off, without really removing material. (If you haven't used it, Zud is a scouring cleaner with fine abrasive and oxalic acid.) Then I polished them using DuPont White Polishing Compound.

Question: Does anyone have an foolproof way to remove the finger stains from the bare wood on the sides of the keys?

I totally agree with steveo about replacing keytops. I replaced keytops on a piano back in the 70's, and vowed I'd never do it again.

24
Filing "...expertly done." Haha.

I once found this reed in a Wurli that I had been gigging with for years. I sounded great, but I had to pull it out as a trophy.

25
. Never take sandpaper, Emory cloth or steel wool to the reeds in a Wurlitzer. It's ok to clean Rhodes tines like that, but not Wurlitzer reeds.
It is okay to clean the rust and coating off Wurlitzer reeds with abrasives like emory or silicon carbide paper, just be sure to only rub in the direction of the length of the reed. The original dry phos coating by itself provides basically no corrosion protection. One of the many Wurlitzer mysteries is why they phos'd them at all. The treatment exposed the reeds to hydrogen embrittlement.

No new aftermarket reeds that I know of have the coating, including Vintage Vibe's.

How nasty is the environment that'll cause rusty reeds? I once had a Wurly that had spent twenty years (of humid summers and cold winters) in a unheated garage. There was no rust anywhere inside the piano. 

26
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Is that original ?
« on: February 08, 2018, 08:09:18 AM »
Elegant bit of value-engineering for Wurlitzer to take a 2 cent bolt, drill and tap the end, and have it serve two functions, supporting the lid and fastening the music rack!

27
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 120 damper felt question
« on: February 08, 2018, 08:00:00 AM »
I couldn't find the assembled reed height in the 120 (or 112) manual. If I'm missing it, please let me know! As it is, my 120 action is perfect, with the spacers under the reed bar that were there when I bought the unmolested piano in 1967.

I misspoke (mistyped?)... the source for the Schaff 4102 letoff tool is vandaking.com. Vanda King sells sell all the Schaff tools and supplies to the general public, at very good prices. I'm not affiliated with them, other than that I've done business with them for decades. Just wanted to pass this source on. They are a good source for lots of 'standard' piano tools and parts used in Wurlies (and Rhodes'), such as rail pins and punchings, damper felts, leathers, capstan tools, damper felt material, key tops, etc.

28
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Upper octave is quieter than the rest
« on: February 06, 2018, 07:31:32 AM »
Quick caveat about heating reeds: the temper temperature for reed steel is only about 625 deg F. Heating to 800 deg F can draw down the steel to about 80% of tensile strength (and corresponding fatigue endurance).

Cinnanon, those reeds are REALLY bent! I've seen slight bending this on my old 120 that still has many original reeds, just deformed enough to make them start to loose volume. On a 120, the eleven (I think) uppermost notes don't have dampers, so I just flipped some of the reeds over and continue to use them. Not ideal, but I hardly ever play up there anyway. 

29
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Is that original ?
« on: February 05, 2018, 07:58:44 PM »
Good! The Wurlitzer badge is real metal, not one of the plastic reproductions that someone added later. My information is that those metal badges were mounted on the last 200A's, somewhere around s/n 135*** to 153***.

My thought was this: if some owner had 'decorated' the piano with a plastic badge, than maybe they also 'decorated' with the side stickers. Since the badge is 'real', and period-correct to the serial number, then doesn't it seem more likely that the side stickers are factory-applied, too?

(The metallized plastic reproduction badges ARE very nice.)   

30
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Is that original ?
« on: February 05, 2018, 03:47:23 PM »
I agree with Tim Hodges: keep the stickers.

To my knowledge, no one has ever reproduced the smaller side stickers, so even in the absence of any other provenance, suggests that this instrument is kinda special. Is the Wurlitzer logo on the back made of metal, or plastic? What are first three digits of s/n?

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