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I have a Suitcase 5-pin with a Janus pre. When you turn on the vibrato, it works for around 10 seconds, and then it stops - the sound fades down and becomes distorted. Any thoughts on what circuit to look at? I am thinking a cap needs replacing, but want to see if anyone else has come across this issue. Any help appreciated.

John

Is there any felt at all between the hammers and pedestals?

John

This thread is old, but FYI: The metal is an aluminum angle (L) rail which can be picked up at any Home Depot. The connections are riveted (or you can use screws/bolts). It is a worthwhile mod if you want another keyboard on top, and it is extremely strong due to the aluminum rail.

John

That is most likely a Stewart preamp (an early one). They were notorious for trying to hide the circuitry - with blue paint and later on by molding the IC completely in black resin of some sort. Stewart was competing with Dyno at the time, and I believe was a pretty low production company. I have only heard one once, and it was mildly interesting.

John

This should be obvious, but I will ask anyway - are you sure the damper is pulling away correctly? Is the hammer tip worn with a groove? Upper notes can be problematic for a variety of reasons.

John

If you are looking to improve the "feel" of the action, new or lubed key felts combined with corrected escapement and well adjusted damper arms usually results in a smooth and tight action. If the key weight is an issue, and you do not have a key ped bump, adding one will help - but not cure - your issues. Only combined with the previously mentioned adjustments will you get an optimized action.

Adding backchecks to a design that evolved without them, in my opinion, does more hinderance than help. That is just my opinion though.

The harp pivot links are essential for grounding. You may experience hum without them in certain cases. FYI.

John

This is a very cool idea - but I would be concerned about hammer tip impact being compromised because of the the slight "bounce" in the hammer tip which will occur, due to the flexibility/compression of the rubber underneath. It could cause attack issues, odd tip wear, and I would think the tip glue bond to the rubber would fail considerably faster. Just speculation, but the points are valid. Still - really interesting approach and very cool concept.

John

Replace the tonebar grommets and it will probably solve the situation.

The tone/timbre change only happens in the middle registers - which is why the Dyno pedal only pulled the bass side of the harp back and forth, with the pivot being the treble side lock-down screw (which was loosened for operation).

In addition, you need some sort of slew amp in the audio chain to compensate for the drop in volume when you change the strike line. Dyno had a slider pot attached to the inside face of the harp support, with the knob leg sticking into a hole in the harp. The pot was connected to a slew amp circuit board that resided on the

I can tell you from experience working on and owning a Percussion Pedal rhodes - don't bother. There was a reason that there were so few made and sold - the concept is intriguing, but the tonal change is minuscule and the complexity of operation is taxing on the player and the piano maintenance.

Pics & sound clips are something the Super Site has needed for years now...John, please share this baby with us all!!!

James - I will put together a batch of clips and pics for the site, as well as historical and mechanical info on the mod before it leaves my shop.

John

You are looking at one of the most elusive, and most intriguing modifications done to the Fender Rhodes – The Dyno-My-Piano Percussion Pedal. The knee lever shifts the harp on a pivot, which changes the strike line, and results in repeatable polyphonic percussion effects. An amazingly novel idea. This piano has been completely restored, in great detail, by myself.

Dyno-My-Piano performed this mod (at a hefty expense) in the late 70's and early 80's. It includes the Pro-EQ preamp, which was standard on most Dyno's, but also incorporates a separate circuit board to isolate the center octaves and boost the signal when the harp is shifted. The power supply is located in the left cheekblock, and can be powered by either a wall wart or two 9v batteries. The preamp has bass boost, volume, overtone, and normal controls (normal is the amount of stock Rhodes output in the filter mix). It is a specialized EQ designed specifically for the Rhodes sound contour.

This rhodes has been completely overhauled and restored to original Dyno factory condition, with new tolex, hardward, hammer tips, grommets, screws, damper felts, damper leaves (spring-steel ones from Speak Easy Vintage Music), action overhaul, as well as countless other upgrades. Every single part and screw has been scrutinized and rebuilt. I have been servicing Rhodes pianos for over 10 years, and have had over 500 come through my shop. This piano is pro all the way and plays like a dream. Includes cross braces, pedal and rod, and leg bag.

$2000. Sold as-is (as above, in like new condition) with NO RETURNS. Shipping will need to be freight (unless you want to come by and pick it up). I can assist you in coordinating shipping requirements. You can see additional photos in the link below. Contact vicvega(at)shore(dot)net.

http://homepage.mac.com/vicvega/PhotoAlbum3.html

This is actually not that rare (in context however). They were made for schools and teaching institutions. This pre-piano does not have the orginal legs or damper pedal, and is missing a tine. It will be difficult to fashion a new one, as they are completely different from modern rhodes tines. Some pre-pianos were made with built in benches, but this one had 3 wood legs and a wood/metal damper.

Do not expect this piano to sound anything like a rhodes. It is more akin to a music box or toy piano. Purely a collectors item and not a performance instrument. It certainly is not worth anything more than the $500 reserve (in my estimation, it is worth less). Check the fenderrhodes.com history section.

John

The plating was applied to avoid corrosion and rust, but it was so thin that it did not perform as expected over the years. If you remove the plating during cleaning (the plating will literally come off with just a rough rag) it will just be more prone to rust. So if you keep the rhodes in a good environment, you will be fine. I would check around at your local plating companies to see how much a nickel plate would cost.

Key pedestal shape went through 5 different configurations over the years. You can read about the changes in the rhodes manual posted on the supersite.

If the tines are worn out, they will over-vibrate in a circular pattern. This causes different harmonics to be produced. I would replace the tines. Tines are newly manufactured by Major-Key (http://www.majorkey.com) and are relatively inexpensive.

The Art Tube MP is a very cheap (and distorted) way of getting a higher signal out of the rhodes. It is starved plate tube technology, which is NOT a good thing for the rhodes output - or anything for that matter. In your case, I would get the Speakeasy. Why? It was made specifically for the rhodes, and sounds that way. There is no better piece of equipment in that price range that will do exactly what you are trying to achieve - a higher signal.

Changing keys in a rhodes is a very difficult process. One problem is that there were so many changes to the geometry of the keys over the years. The second problem is that the keys were cut from one large sheet of wood - which means that the same key from a different piano might be too wide for the same position on your piano. If you need a key replaced, find a set from the same year (or key pedestal configuration) and find the one that fits. Or - you need to modify one to fit (very difficult).

Yes, new grommets will greatly improve tonebar stability and straightness.

I would not recommend using steel wool to clean off the hammer cams - any micro scratches will cause severe friction over time as the silicone wears away. The action is going to get heavier and heavier. Goo-Gone or lighter fluid and a clean rag is all you need. Buff them with a small amount of silicone when done.

The tonebars need to be set to certain specifications. They were meant to be a specific height (escpapement), and have a specific timbre setting relative to the pickup - based on the tip of tine.

My first suggestion would be to get new screws and washers, and not use the old ones. The screws are #8 1-1/2in wood screws, and the washers are #6 finish washers (cupped). Stainless steel is best, but you can also get away with zinc coated. You also need to make sure that the grommet bases are inside the springs, and not squashed.

Once you have secured the grommets, set the back-bottom of the tonebars (closest to you) at 3/8in from the wood. Only set the middle octave first, or so, and then using the second tonebar screw drop the tine to just above dead center of the pickup - looking at eye level to the harp, straight on.

Play your new octave, and see if you get thunks or double bounce. If not, then your escapement is OK, and you can set the rest of the harp. If it is not OK, then the 3/8in spec has to be raised or lowered to get the desired sound/feel. But a 3/8in height is factory, and you should probably go with that if you have any doubts. There are many other factors that I am not going to go into, but this is the general idea.

NOTE: The very bottom and top octave tines are set a bit higher than dead center of the pickup. Play with the settings and you will find the sweet spot. In fact, all your timbre settings can be adjusted to your taste - just use above dead center as your starting point. I would also venture to say that the pickups need to be moved in closer. Also, your dampers will probably need adjustment after all this.

The uneven hammers are due to either action pedestal felt wear/expansion or key leveling issues.

Go for it! It should look pretty cool. When you remove the existing tolex, keep it as intact as possible so you can use all the pieces as templates for your cutouts. Go to vibroworld.com for tolex and grill cloth.

The settings should be the same as all tonebars in that range (both below, and in general, above). The back/bottom of the tonebar should be 3/8in from the wood, and the tine should be just above dead center of the pickup (or to your own taste). The clanking may also be from other factors, such as squashed grommets, hammer tip grooves, damper kiss, etc.

If the rest of your tonebars are at a different height than 3/8in, use that different height instead - for consistency in strike line and escapement.

My guess would be that the wood core tips have grooved to an extreme extent - exposing the bare wood beneath the shrinkwrap. Replace the tips with new ones.

Use 3M weather stripping glue for the wood/plastic hammers. Make sure to scrape off any residue left from the previous glue using a utlity knife. Let the glue dry overnight before playing.

You want the "new style" yellow or white grade (depending on where your tip break point is).

The power supply is 15vDC, and is a 5.5x2.5 power plug. These are very hard to find these days.

As an alternative, you can use a 12vDC (which can be found at RadioShack easily), but the output will not be as strong.

Steve at SpeakEasy Vintage Music has been doing this application for some time now - both on rhodes and leslie boxes. It works well.

Yes, we do have MDF here in the US. Maybe the construction in the UK is different, because it is a well known fact here that a sheet of MDF is more than double the weight of a sheet of plywood (70-90lbs, as opposed to 30-40lbs or less). So I am mystified as to how your lid is lighter.

At any rate, I said that the casing adds a "small" amount of weight to the total, not "no weight" - and granted I may be exaggerating a bit. Most of the weight in a rhodes is centered around the harp and action. As in a B3, the case is not the problem, it is the manuals.

I re-read my reply and it is condescending - I apologize, as I did not intend it to be that way.

I am aware of Steve's use of different hammer tip break points, and have conversed with him directly on a number of different issues. I guess we differ on the word "percussive" to describe the sound. I viewed it as bell-like with a definitive high frequency attack (think Dyno). Herbie's sound was power with more fundamental - as opposed to high harmonic. But one person's "clank" is anothers "thud". You can read about hammer tips by Steve here:

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/hammer-tips.html

This is patently not true, for the following reasons:

1. Herbie Hancock's sound was not percussive (ie, there was no discernable attack on most recordings - it is a round sound).

2. Herbie's rhodes was serviced by the head engineer of the rhodes factory - Steve Woodyard.

3. Try to imagine what a metal thumbtack would sound like hitting a metal tine.

I am digging some "modern" rhodes playing by Matthew Bourne - The Electric Dr. M.

Very hip - here are some sound samples:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/jazz/reviews/bourne_doctorm.shtml

Turning the guide pins is not really the best idea, but if you must then just be careful not to bend them. The real solution would be to replace the bushing felts, or use a special piano tool the tightens the bushings (which does not work all the time).

Basically, any tie wrap will do - just not the extra large ones. The concept is to place a bump along the front lip of the pedestal to aid the hammer in it's upward swing. If you read the online manual, there is a section which outlines the procedure (using felt instead of tie wraps, but it is the same concept).

You can try it out on a few keys to see if suits your piano.

NOTA BENE: The mod will introduce some "clacking" into the action, but it will not be present on the amplified output.

The tines are probably set too high in relation to the pickup in the extreme upper registers - and the pickups could be pushed in further I presume also. Slight tine timbre adjustments downward will cure your problem. Making huge changes in the height of the tine will cause others - unless you want to deal with escapement and damper clearance. If so, read the online manual.

Moving the pickups in closer is easy. Just make sure in the extreme upper register that the pickup is not moved into the path of the hammer (this is common on older Mark I's).

The plywood case itself only adds a small amount of weight to the piano. In fact the top of the lid is only 1/4in masonite. I don't think there is a material out there strong enough to support the action, leg mounts, and handles - and still be cost effective and workable. Plywood just plain works in this situation.

When you have the tolex off, take the time to shore up the body. Wood filler in the cracks and divets, and heavy duty staples spanning the wood joints. Once you have the tolex on and then the corner harware cinched down, you have an amazingly sturdy case.

Take the tip of a screwdriver and gently tap the pickup in question. Then tap the adjacent pickups to see if the "click" you get is the same volume. If not, you know that the pickup is either dead or has a bad connection (cold joint). If you can safely rule out the pickup as the source of volume drop, then start to look at the hammer tip (grooves), damper felt (kissing the tine), the tine (either bent or need to be replaced), or even the tine tip (jagged edge).

My guess would be that there is a pickup issue though.

Silicone spray was applied to the felts at the factory. After 20-30 years, they will become dried out and lose their effectiveness - as well as tear or become dislodged due to non-lubricated friction. Application of a lubricant is neccessary to maintain good health of the piano to last the next 20-30 years.

As long as your escapement is set, double bounce will not be an issue - application of a moderate amount of lube to dry felts will not induce such a scenario to begin with. Going nutso with the lube may in fact cause such problems, though. So moderation is the key.

In older piano which have felts on the hammer cam and no bump on the pedestal, double bounce may be of more concern. Doing the key ped mod (which cradles the hammer cam on contact with the tine, as well as engages the hammer with less downward force) will certainly overcome the double bounce as it relates to lubrication. But again, knowing how to set perfect escapement is a must.

I personally use Food Grade Silicone (SprayOn S00210). It is easy to apply and spreads to other surfaces nicely. I give the ped felts a quick spray, and then one shot in each of the bushings. Then the keys should dry for about 10 minutes before being put back on the frame.

There are probably 2 different factors here:

1. Your hammer tips on those affected notes have grooves from wear.
2. The tines have jagged ends.

See if there is a relationship between the offending notes and the above. If so, file down the jagged edges and replace the hammer tips across the whole piano. These procedures are standard in refurbs to begin with - but are generally overlooked by most people when trying to determine note variances. They can have a porfound affect on consistent sound, even if the harp specs are dead on.

This also assumes that you understand the tine/pickup relationship, and this is not just a case of bad harp setup.