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I use the circuit below for my Fender-Rhodes Stage 73 (1974 vintage). I went to higher impedance to keep the loads higher on the pickups...gives a much cleaner, stronger signal than the original if you are going into a high impedance amplifier (I use an FMR Audio RNP-8380).

The potentiometers are Emerson "Short Solid Shaft" Audio Taper; I bought them through Sweetwater.
The capacitor is a high quality polypropylene thin film.

I also had a natty old circuit like yours that I had just short-circuited and was going straight into the RNP for years, but decided I wanted on-board volume and tone control again, so just rebuilt the whole thing. The Emersons fit the vintage knobs perfectly.

The full output of the Rhodes pickups was a little much for some "Drive" boxes that I like, and this let's me dial down the power without introducing noise.

For me, with a very crowded music room, the Keystep's primary virtue is how compact it is.

I ended up getting the Keystep as well, primarily for input to the MiniBrute 2S (which has an awesome sequencer, but no keyboard); this all sits easily on my Rhodes (Home-built Dyno-style case)
I'm also finding it to be useful as an adjunct to my Dave Smith OB6 which has a 'difficult-to-program' polyphonic sequencer...the Keystep sequencer is MUCH more flexible and after input they can be edited in the free app.

Until very recently I was running my Rhodes (1974 Mk 1 Stage 73 Fender) directly into an off-board preamp and effects board, but decided to make another try at it. I wired up a version of the original, but with 250K and 1M potentiometers (special audio taper) from Emerson and appropriately chosen poly-caps. It sounds great, very low noise and perfect response.

Curious how you like the Keystep...I have an Arturia minibrute 2S that i drive with my Nord Electro when I want live action, but it's clumsy (for this purpose...otherwise the nord 6HP is phenomenal)
jeff

I have to give a shout-out to my Behringer Model D, Behringer's $299 version of a Minimoog, which I've paired with a 32-key Arturia Keystep.  I've never owned a Minimoog, but many who have claim the Behringer sound pretty much matches the real deal.
Alan

I'm re-opening this topic with a clarification question:

Were Audio Taper potentiometers used in all cases?

Background:
I have owned a number of Rhodes pianos...bought my first one in 1975 (yeah...I'm old) and sold it to buy a DX7 (who figured).
The harps on all of them are very similar and as pointed out, is a reasonably good humbucking design. However, I have always noticed that you can induce hum by proximity of electronics. Wall warts within 3-4 feet of the harp will induce audible hum (I use Voodoo Labs toroid-based power supplies for any DC/AC powered equipment in my studio). I have also noticed that if you turn the volume up loud enough on any Rhodes, you can hear the hiss...which is likely just thermal noise from components. If you setup your harp with the pickups >3-4mm from the tines (I see this all the time), or load the harp with low impedances, it is possible that the volume level required will reproduce some hiss, but no worse than a lot of guitarists rigs that I play with.

I have always set up my Rhodes with close spacing, as 1) I like the crunch and 2) it gives me more volume and a quieter experience. For the last 10 years, I have limited my e-Piano (not including synths) collection to a Fender-Rhodes 1973 Mk 1 Stage 73, set up with ~ 1mm spacing except the bottom two octaves I taper that up to 2mm to give me some "Low Cut" and chill out the bass a bit. I have carefully (with a mototool) flattened the ends of all the tines to get a uniform timbre.

Long ago I stopped using the tone controls, but have a renewed interest in that some of the "Tone Booster" effects boxes I like are overdriven by the output. I have been looking at ideas, but like <pnoboy> I appreciate the elegance of a low shelving filter and high impedances throughout (to keep that 'crystal piano' vibe). I'm planning on building something like that shortly and will post results here, but welcome inputs. I will try to figure a design that keeps the harp loading constant or at least sufficiently high (I'm a EE from way back) that it doesn't color the output other than the shelf and the volume.

Welcome comments and any learnings from  the previous participants over the last 120 days.

One thing that I find useful is a single-coil electric guitar pickup wired to a 1/4" jack. Effectively a Rhodes is just a Stratocaster with 73 strings/pickups, but it's hard to isolate the physical location where the electro-magnetic field is generated that's causing the hum.

Wire it up to an amp turn it way up and move the coil around (both location and orientation) until you find the hot spots. Then try aluminum if it's an electric (or if that doesn't work then it is a magnetic field and you will need mu-metal.

You really need to start your debugging with a solid cable connected directly to the harp, and worry much later on about powering and using the aftermarket electronics

Just spend the $6 and get some cables like THESE ONES and plug directly into the RCA jack on the harp assembly (i.e. disconnect the grey wire)

The one in the middle is the Marcel...

This is interesting...I have my Rhodes harp (1973 Fender era Stage 73) directly wired out (the tone controls are junk, particularly on these earlier ones) and use high quality preamps...most recently the RNP from FMR Audio. I always find that the bass puts out far too much sound and barks more than I like to balance with the rest of the piano, and end up backing off the spacing. I have noticed that they go sharp when too close, but I generally see the opposite. Same with the other half dozen Rhodes I have worked on (all from the '70s).

jeff

Thank you Steve.

My piano didn't have white felts but only paper shims on the balance rail. If I put white felts on, key height increases to a point where there's a gap under the keys. I know this is not what's expected.

So we have a 1976 suitcase, plastic hammers with -originally- white felts below and bare flat pedestals. It seems that, at some point someone applied the old-fashioned miracle mod as described in the service manual. Maybe they took wrong measures, so hammers may be resting too high because of the bumps not being in the right spot, and causing all that mess.

So that I'm ordering a miracle mod kit and I would reset all pedestals, getting rid of those white felts. Then we'll see what's happening...

You raise an interesting question that I have wanted to ask for some time:
When you raise the harp, the proper strike line does move. On my piano (Mark 1 Stage 73 from 1972 or thereabouts...it's closed at the moment and can't remember the date code), however, I have limited range of escapement motion. It is on my 'to do' list to install brass threaded inserts into the maple standoffs and turn the harp mounting holes into slots to give me some range, but the little that I have tried suggests that the harp frame is really hard steel. Also need to manage the filings real carefully or they get all over the pickups and make a real mess...sigh.

Anyone ever done something like this to their harp to make adjustment simpler?

I'm very happy with my live sound through either a JC-120 or a Polytone Maxibrute-103 (2-12 solid state).

I would like to set up to record direct (I've been just close-miking the Polytone with good results) as my neighborhood is not dead silent and lots of takes are ruined by aircraft and motorcycles. I can't seem to get a sound that 1) isn't brittle and 2) doesn't have lots of hiss (this one I just can't figure). It's very quiet into the the Polytone, either direct or through a preamp, but if I try to go direct through a longer cable over to my DAW (Focusrite Saffire Pro 40) I get hiss. Nothing else seems plagued by this and my Rhodes is well-grounded and clean.

Unless I'm mistaken, if you turn the bass boost and volume both all the way CW, then you are seeing the harp in parallel with a 10K load. This is the way my stage is wired:

I'm looking for some discussion...used to play Rhodes' a lot through the 70s and 80s...last year bought a beat-up MK i Stage 73 for my studio and it's now all perfect and ready to move in from the shop. I'm considering front-end electronics, and am tempted to just put together modern stuff.

It sounds pretty good through my JC-120, but needs a little EQ, even after meticulously tweaking pickup/tine spacing and trying various voicing options. Also, I want to use it for laying down tracks on some of my own and my colleagues projects, so I need some type of DI. I'm considering:

1. put together a 4U rack with:
  - Channel strip: Focusrite or Presonus probably with optical compression and parametric EQ...the Rhodes sounds pretty good through my Focusrite Saffire that is my recording front end, but needs some color during tracking to cue me on dynamics
   - 31-channel 1U EQ...the Behringers sound OK (although I don't own one, just listened locally and seem a good value). I like the ability to provide overall shape beyond trouble spots if it is good quality, transparent and phase neutral
  - BBE Maximizer...I know they are cheesy, but I like the phase manipulation capability and sound
  - Possibly an effects strip - don't have a preference but looking for ideas here
....could probably get all this together for <$700 and a lot of the built-in custom amps are >>$400 already with less versatility...downside, it may not provide a classic Rhodes sound, and good tremolo is hard to find, although I'm not a big trem fan

2. Just get a really good DI...e.g. the LR Baggs Para Acoustic D.I. Preamp. Has a couple channels of parametric...downside, doesn't rack mount (I hate the proliferation of little boxes and cables around the studio), no compression, etc...

3. Bite the bullet and get something customized for the Rhodes and built into the name rail, e.g. VintageVibe 60's thing, a Jordan reproduction, etc. (***any favorites with good reasons why it is best?). Downside...can't use this for other keyboards, guitar, wind controller, sax microphone, etc...

I'm not in a big hurry as I can currently run through the Focusrite (I wish that these type of units had per channel effects loops) and use Sonar for sound shaping, but I prefer to monitor as close to the final sound as possible so I am seeking an all analog solution pre-tracking.

Anyways...rant away. Thought it was about time to open this conversation wound and take a current snapshot.

Now if someone could just figure a way to swap harps with the stomp of a pedal, how cool would that be!

I've thought about this some. Trying to imagine some way that the pickup rail could have a moving taper to drive it up and down and a cam of sorts to move it away from the tines. You could set it up close and one pedal would move it ~1mm off center and the other could move it ~1mm away. For $10K, I will experiment with this on your piano...for $20K it could be motorized!

That's the problem with all these ideas. They take time and money. I generally carry my Nord Electro and have one each of these two types of samples. Not the same, but provides some flexibility.

If you lug your piano around the dowel that transmits the pedal motion to the damper rail can rattle around and occasionally get jammed up. The spring holds it firmly in place while transporting. Otherwise, you are correct, it works fine without the spring.

It sounds like you are not  letting it dry long enough before contacting the surfaces together.

You are exactly right...I left it overnite and everything went swimmingly. I must have just been getting increasingly impatient as I gained confidence. It's now going very well, and I'm just about done. I have only used solvent-based contact cements before, and they (of course) suffer always from sticking too much. This stuff is great, and seems to form a good bond with pressure.

One other thing I discovered...doesn't stick to aluminum unless you roughen the surface (I used 120 grit sandpaper). This is a Dyno-style case and the stiffener rail is aluminum.

So let me just get this clear, all I have to do is leaving the bottom part as is (fastened to whatever it is down there) but take the top of the spring and just hook it over any part/anywhere on that back lipped edge of the damper rail ?

Obviously I will try to hook it to a place that makes the spring look as vertical as possible, but ultimately, you are saying to just hook it to the damper rails back
edge anywhere ?

Exactly correct

My current 1975 Mk I and my older 1971 both were attached at the bottom with a screw...not to the case, but to the back of the keybed, and the spring just hooked over the back edge of the damper rail. I always use a crochet hook to fish it up and connect, or else a woodwind spring tool like:
Spring Hook in Case

[Tolex Glue:]

.....if I had any hair, I'd be tearing it out.

Just for background...I have worked with my hands for >40 years on a variety of things. Been a machinist and custom furniture builder, and repair woodwind instruments on the side.

Bought a Stage 73 that had been dropped about six months ago. Case was busted but piano was still mountable on the base. Got the piano tweaked to perfection (been playing and maintaining my own Rhodes since 1975).

Decided to build a new case...came out real nice; finger joint corners, Dyno style semi-permanent half lid...made some nice walnut cheek blocks that look cool...destined for a permanent home in my studio.

Decided to tolex it...bought tolex and a couple quarts of contact cement from VintageVibe. Found these instructions at the VintageVibe site:

Tolex Glue:

Water based, this is the best glue you could ever want for your professional tolexing.  You can brush it, roll it, or spray it on.  This glue can go on and be repositioned a week later if you want, you can cover your tolex and leave it alone for days and come back and still apply it on your cabinet. No more toxic fumes, this glue gives you all the time in the world to get the job done right.

stage rhodes 1-2 quarts

....sounds pretty simple

Started the tolexing yesterday. Mixed the glue by shaking vigorously and then letting the bubbles settle out like latex paint. Started with the main case sides, first one went well following the corner process on the YouTube video. Second one had a little problem getting the glue to stick, but a lot of pressure and rubbing fixed the problem, although I used a couple of furniture tacks and real contact cement for the fold over tabs and corners on the inside.

Today I confidently brushed the glue on the remainder of the case and the large piece, let it dry 30 minutes like they suggested on the web site. Couldn't get anything to stick at all. Both sides feel tacky, but they just don't adhere to each other except a few small spots here and there. Tried a second thin coat of glue and shorter dry...then waited longer...still same thing. Nothing sticks.

Any advice or prior experience with this glue? Do I need to strip everything and rescrape the cabinet? The glue is sticking well to the wood and the tolex...the remaining (tacky-feeling) surface just doesn't stick to the other one...

Nice and crusty inside...huh?

The sustain pedal is a bigger problem, but there is a thread active right next to this one at the moment with some good comments.

Regarding legs, I personally believe the Rhodes legs are over-rated and I use one of these and it's far superior in many ways:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MUPKS7350

You get more sustain and better adjustment of timbre by small motions of the harp...you can file the harp holes slightly elongated to give you the room to adjust (just take them out on the high note end and loosen the bass side to figure out which way to file the holes into slots). A Dremel or Foredom tool makes short work of this. I find that as little as 0.5mm can make a profound difference.

These guys sell all the hardware in black or chrome:

http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/Corners/Mojotone-Black-3-Leg-Corners-No-Lip-Set-of-4-with-Screws

This is the stand that I use on my Stage 73. http://www.zzounds.com/item--MUPKS7350 I was going to re-tolex the case, but after stripping the old tolex off and finding all the corners busted and the top made out of 1/8" particle board, I decided to build a new dyno-style case...stay tuned. (my alternate passion is period furniture re-creations)

Just use a keyboard stand...either the table types or the heavy duty Z stands work:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MUPKS7150

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MUPKS7350

Someone with some building chops should be able to build the Dyno preamp for very small amount of money (the JFETs are super cheap).

Is there a schematic of this available somewhere??

Sure that it's not 3171?

Anybody have a picture of the length, width and depth of the crimp that worked?

I like to use a compressor with a fast attack and slow release to remove the volume effect when voicing. I run off the harp into the compressor...use lots of compression, but just shy of distortion, and then turn the volume down for the feed to studio-grade headphones or studio monitors to minimize ear fatigue from using an amplifier.

db,
What is the "damper crimp mod"? I searched the forum but couldn't find anything...

jeff

I concur. I'd wager that when God himself sits down to play some piano, he spends a good amount of that time at a Rhodes.

yes...I do

__________________________
But seriously, it depends a lot on the intent. I agree with keysandslots in a narrow frame of context. If classical music is the intent, then an 88-key piano is necessary, but I would still contend that a good hammer-action e-piano is sufficient. I studied and played classical repertoire for many years, even with a few symphony orchestras, but I learned on a crappy 50s-era (it was a new piano when I learned on it, but it's still at my mom's house) Wurlitzer that has an action no better than a Rhodes. I routinely play: my personal Mason&Hamlin, a Steinway Artist model M from the 30s that is poorly maintained (one of my weekly gigs), my Roland RD-500 (for arranging/composing/practice in my studio), a Rhodes, my Nord Electro, etc...I have no trouble switching, although the M&H is my favorite and the Rhodes a close second.

I teach a fair number of kids as their 'off-season' teacher. These are local kids who study with a traditional classical teacher and want to learn improvisation/rock/jazz/funk, etc... Part of what I teach them is how to to comp, how to play percussively/expressively on a variety of keyboards. Most of these kids practice at home on relatively new Yamahas, Young Changs, Kawais, and the like, which are all relatively heavy, thick actions. My M&H is fast and lite and they like that they can play it differently.

I think that variety is fine, and unless they are headed for professional repertory, it is most important that they can practice whenever they want, and that they learn musicianship and the basic fingering and ergo skills of playing keyboards. The rest can adapt.

One of the best things about electronic keyboards, particularly for budding teenage musicians is that they can practice with headphones. The additional practice time with nobody listening (i.e. no parental criticism and judgment) has more positive effect than any possible negative effect. The Rhodes is fine with a small headphone amplifier (a Tube MP, e.g. is cheap and works great).

I occasionally play the Nord through an old Polytone 2 X 10 that has a stereo mode for the 2 10s. The tremolo sounds pretty good.

It's back to 40 lbs for a 73 key keyboard though. My Electro is half that weight. At 40 lbs and $2000, there are a lot of nice keyboards.

I hear what you are saying about the guy that misled you about the action. He was probably just a regular piano tuner. I am too, but I actually learned my skills initially on a Wurlitzer E.P that was unplayable, and my own acoustic piano, then the Rhodes shortly thereafter. Today, I am the only piano tuner within 90 or so miles (that I know of) that will work on a Rhodes.

I know many tuners that would most likely just say the same things he said to you- they all make faces when I mention the Rhodes at PTG meetings.(except one guy who owned one).

Actually, I just convinced the woman that maintains my 1912 Mason & Hamlin Model A to re-bush the keys on my 1973 Stage 73.

Steve,
I found it easier to use the 3M as directed rather than just pressing the hammer into the wet glue...more like contact cement. How about you?

Since it appeared that my original hammer tips were affixed with the 3M 8001, that's what I will use this weekend. I just scored a tube of the yellow 8001 from my local ACE hardware (the glue I just scraped off was yellow). It will be the one thing I do where 'original' will be followed. Thanx for the info...keep it coming as I used the search and couldn't find a repository of opinions on this...I also found an old dried-out tube of the same stuff in my glue drawer (way at the bottom) so this was what I had probably used on previous pianos...I've been in the same shop since 1983, so have tended to accumulate history!

I have no doubt that both glues have worked and will work. Just curious about opinions. The factory didn't necessary optimize assembly materials for rework down the road...

It's been years since I replaced hammers on a Rhodes, so my memory fails me. Those pianos are long gone...this one I am refurbing. I have some contradictory recommendation regarding the glue. Having just removed what I think were original hammers from a 1973 Stage 73, I was pleased how easy it was to gently slice the glue off removing virtually no wood from the hammer and leaving a clean, flat surface. The bottoms of the hammers had a sawtooth texture to them that left little rods of glue.

I just received my hammer kit from VintageVibe and the hammers have flat bottoms (I'm cool with that). There is some confusion about which way is up to mount the new hammers but I'm assuming that the narrowest edge goes up and farthest from the action rail. Please post alternate views if I'm mistaken...but I meander...

The kit included cyanoacrylate glue (the thin super glue, not the gel) which strikes me as odd. Seems like you would want a thin layer of elastomer in between the hammer tip and the wood hammer, also it seems with super glue (which sets up brittle) the hammer might be hard to get off the next time without damaging the wood.

dhnarkosis recommends 3M weatherstrip glue, which I am inclined to believe in, and in the absence of other inputs, will probably go out and buy to do this job. I imagine that one 5 oz. tube is plenty for the 73 little dots that I will have to apply.

Comments???

I have both a JC-120 and a Polytone Maxi-Brute 104 which is also 2x12. Both are reliable solid-state amps, but even in 'clean' mode sound completely different. The Polytone has a very nice stereo mechanical plate reverb and the JC has the chorus and vibrato. Depends on what I am going for, but I love them both with my 1973 Stage 73 or with my (oh no!) Nord Electro. They both have a classic sound. I have played the Rhodes through a 4x10 Marshall before and got a noticeable amount of additional mid-range punch and for that reason, have put a graphic EQ into the little 4U that I carry to add that punch. Rather carry the EQ than the 4x10 cab...

You can also get 1/32"  and 1/16" polyethylene at TAP Plastics nationwide, and you can cut it with a straightedge and utility knife

theres a guy on ebay who sells such instruments

http://cgi.ebay.com/Simone-celesta-celeste-deagan-rhodes-jenco-mustel-piano_W0QQitemZ380161294815QQcmdZViewItemQQptZKeyboards_MIDI?hash=item58836101df&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Got his price for it as well!!

White leather makes a big noise, but at sub-sonic frequencies...down around 0.01 Hz...only band groupies can hear it

could you post a pointer, please?

I just ordered one...I will post when done

I use an ART Tube MP, and have been quite happy with the overdrive. I can switch it in and out and the output goes direct into my JC-120

Odd that I just noticed this post...I'm restoring a 1973 Stage 73 and just weighed all the components:
Harp - 25 lbs
Keybed (with keys) 20 lbs
Case bottom - 27 lbs
Case cover - 22 lbs (without legs, etc)
Harp Cover - black ABS - 3 lbs.
Legs and leg braces - 7 lbs
Action rail (no hammer tips) - 9 lbs
Damper rail and Name Rail - 6 lbs
Sustain pedal and Rod - 3 lbs
Harp mounting blocks (maple) -- 3 lbs.

I already leave the legs at home and use a stand. As you can see the piano itself weighs 69 lbs (less than my Roland RD-500) and the case and legs weigh 56 lbs. I'm going to re-Tolex this one and probably keep it for myself and I am thinking about removing the leg-mounting hardware from the bottom and patching before re-Tolexing (if I do that I will have a complete set of legs and sockets for sale).

Alternatively, I'm thinking about keeping the case intact and just build a gig-rig...I've seen Stage 73s built into ATA cases that are lighter than original.  Alternatively, Baltic Birch ply in 1/2" could save about 15 lbs...it's just a little too tall to fit into the largest SKB keyboard case.

The key dip and subsequently the hammer throw is set/limited by having the top position of the key with the pedestal parallel to the hammer to get a flat, well-damped return when the hammer hits it. Any more and you unduly stress the hammer by pushing on it from the bottom. Just put replacement hinge pins in a half dozen hammers on a 1973 Stage 73 (i drill them for 0.106" music wire and press a pin in to permanently assemble). They were broken because the front rail felts were set up for more key dip and this caused a hard key press to jam the hammer at an awkward angle when it returned

Thanx for the viewpoint...it actually seems to work very well, and is conceivably very easy, as it just appears to be music wire.

I'm just pulling apart a Mk I Stage 73 from week 35, 1973. Here is what I found:

Keys 1 - 25   All yellow springs, and this exactly corresponds with the tonebars that have the slot between the voicing screw and the quarter twist

Keys 25-53  All natural (unpainted) springs and this corresponds to tonebars with no slot and one quarter twist

Keys 54-73  Blue springs on the escapement (end) screw and natural springs on the voicing side.

This is contrary to the replacement parts above, but it makes sense that the springing would match the tonebar style change (for some reason??)

The spring wire diameter measures:
Yellow - 1.02 mm
Natural - 0.89 mm
Blue - 0.65 mm

This piano has mostly original parts...I don't think that it has ever been completely stripped down. I'm trying the McMaster tonebar screw and grommet replacements for the first time and it's working well.

The JC is stereo, and that is important. For the same reason, I have kept an old Polytone (104 Maxi-Brute) 210 that is also has stereo and has a great plate reverb that runs in stereo as well. Not quite as much of a 'brute' to haul around as the JC-120. But if you're hauling the Rhodes the JC should not pose a problem!

I have played all of my Rhodes pianos through my venerable JC-120 for years. The few times that it has been out of commission, I use a 2X10 Polytone MaxiBrute with a stereo chorus, but it somehow doesn't compare to the JC. It is also loud enough for pretty big rooms...if I need more volume, I bring my own mixer and mike the amp with two SM57s and provide a stereo feed to the house. Really kicks.
Just get the real thing...