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Messages - pianotuner steveo

#1
I would take one that you have to a hardware store and match it up. May be easiest and cheapest option.
#2
Ok, it's called the Wurlitzer line out module under the Wurlitzer parts section. They have an internal version and the external box version. The external looks like it's white now and is about $20 more. I have the external version because I have more than one Wurli.
#3
Vintage vibe has the passive box back in stock. I will look up exactly what they call it.
#4
It's ok, I got it to work finally. I removed the rod from the pedal lyre, flipped it over, and made an adjuster from 1/4-20 connectors. I sold the piano and the buyer said it works fine. I just don't understand why that large nut was put on the rod. I would still like to see pictures from anyone else who  still has an unmodified 270 to see the original piece that connects the rod to the piano.  Morelock's was clueless when I called them about this issue. I'm sad that I had to let it go, but the nice part is, the buyer is a regular local client, so I will still get to play the 270 sometimes.
#5
I've almost solved the problem! I think someone who did not know what they were doing put the 7/16" nut on the pedal rod aftermarket. I took the bottom plate out, removed the rod, flipped it upside down and wouldn't you know it, the other end is now TOO SMALL to grab 1/4-20 double ended nut. I used Teflon tape and super glue to attach the 1/4-20 double sided nut. (it grips real well) I just need one more just double sided nut like it and a short 1/4 rod. Then, it should reach into the piano and grab the pedal rod inside the piano. One more trip to the hardware store in the morning, and it should work....
Buyer is picking up on Sunday...
#6
Does anyone have a picture they can send me?
#7
UPDATE: Almost 4 years later and I'm still loving this piano. The samples are about the best I've ever heard, and are very customizable. You can even save sounds to use on specific songs if you want. I only wish that it had more orchestra sounds, and a Hohner Pianet. You can customize the Wurli sound to make it Hohner-like, but you can still hear the difference.
It has uprights, several grands, clav, CP80, several Hammond presets,harpsichords, Wurli and Rhodes, almost anything you would want, and the action feels like an acoustic piano. It even has a touch adjustment with 4 levels.
#8
Sorry I'm just seeing this now. Did you find the issue? Was it a missing felt piece?
#9
If anyone here has a photo of the piano end of the butterfly grand pedal assembly, please PM me, or attach photo here.  I have a buyer for my piano, but I still can't attach the pedal. It has been like this ever since I bought it, the person I bought the piano from claimed they knew nothing about the problem.

Please see the old thread titled "270 Butterfly Grand" started by Steveno. (that's not me) I have a detailed explanation of the issue, plus Cormac attached a photo of my pedal rod end on that thread to help show the issue better.

Thanks in advance. Buyer is picking up the piano this weekend.
#10
I know this is an old thread, but I still can not connect the pedal to the 270, and I have a buyer for the piano. The nut at the top of the piano is not the same thread size as the internal pedal connection, plus, it does not reach the piano. I bought a piece to extend the internal piano rod, but there is still no way to attach it to the pedal rod. They are TWO DIFFERENT thread sizes. I did not realize that when I bought the extension part.  I would need a piece about 2" long that is 1/4" male on one end and 7/16" male on the other end! I don't think there is such thing. Or, a piece that is about 3" long that is 7/16" male on one end and 1/4-20  female on the other end.

Does anyone have a photo of what the end of the pedal rod is supposed to look like on a 270?
I don't know if Morelock's is still around, but when I called them several years ago, they had no idea what I was talking about .

Thank you to Cormac for adding my picture below. As you can see, the rod does not extend beyond the wood. The rod is all the way up on the pedal end, plus the nut is 7/16"  instead of 1/4". Even  if I could swap the  attached nut for a 1/4"", it's still not long enough. I can't slide a 1/4" up the rod  because of the intentional bends in the rod. Does anyone have any ideas?
#11
I'm not sure why you replied to a post from 13 years ago, but after saying it's inaccurate, you basically agreed with me.... if the springs are broken,weak, or missing, the Jack can't return to its original position, which is necessary to "support the hammer" as you said. I said nothing about adjusting the Letoff if the springs are not functioning properly.
#12
I found the answer. Service manual was no help.

They are all SAE bolts, 2 different sizes. The 3 for the pedal are 1/4" x 1 1/4" (1 1/2" May also work)

The 6 for the legs are 3/8" x 1 1/2". I hope this helps others.
#13
Hey, I finally found a potential buyer for my butterfly grand, but I seem to have misplaced the bag with the mounting bolts for the legs and the pedal. Does anyone know for sure the exact sizes (including length) of these bolts? I need to know this week if possible.  Thanks in advance!
#14
There should almost no lost motion in a Wurlitzer. Just enough so the Jack does not get hung up on the way back to rest position. It sounds like maybe your key bushings need easing and lubing with Protek.
#15
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer Returns
March 08, 2024, 08:22:14 AM
I hope they are more affordable than the new Rhodes and have more to them than just the one sound... (midi capable?)
#16
If you can post a short video, we should be able to figure it out. Play the key slowly as well as normally and fast. Concentrate the camera on the one key and compare it to a neighboring key that works fine. Have you checked the dip? It might be shallow. Or something may be laying under the front of the key- guitar pick, paper clip, a coin, etc.
#17
No, not likely the hammer. Check your key dip. See if the neighboring white keys press down about the same amount as the A. If they do, you may have a piece of felt that fell off (maybe at the back of the key)  The best tool for Wurlitzer capstans is sold on eBay. If a felt fell off, it's likely laying inside somewhere, just use titebond to re-attach.
#18
2 quick tips:  for poor sustain, carefully remove the Reed, clean it with a light oil and somewhat dry it. Also clean around the bolt hole with the oil. Carefully reinstall, the high treble reeds are easy to break in your bare hands. Don't overtighten the bolt or the head can snap off causing a big problem. Make sure the Reed isn't crooked or it can short out.

If a note is too loud, never file the pickup slot to make it quieter, if you file too much, it is not reversible. Also, never file the Reed itself (other than the solder for tuning)

Filing a Reed can weaken it. It can also cause it to corrode.

Filing/needling tiny Wurlitzer hammers is not recommended.
#19
The balance rail pins are the pins that the keys pivot on. You do need to remove the amp assembly to access.
#20
What do you mean by there are different types of Protek? Protek comes in a black and white bottle. I don't know of different types... 1406 you apply with a syringe, 1408 is a spray bottle, but it's the same thing. The spray bottle is wasteful, I don't recommend it.

There is a light grease type but that's not called CLP, and I've never tried it. It's likely more helpful for pedal squeaks for example.
#21
The phono Jack is an aux in Jack. It is not meant for a modern turntable with a magnetic cartridge. You need to connect some sort of a direct box or other device to the headphone out Jack. The signal is too 'hot' to connect to an amp, mixing board, etc. VV used to sell an inexpensive passive box for this, not sure if they still do.
#22
RE the headphone Jack: you need to replace that Jack with a stereo Jack and just connect the 2 (+) terminals together, then the sound will come through both sides. Be sure to use a Jack that cuts out the speaker.
#23
It sounds like issues 3 and 4 are related. Probably needs cleaning and lubing with Protek. The balance rail pins is where I would start.
Issue 5 sounds like either that Reed is installed crooked, or something is in there causing the Reed to short. NEVER file the pickup to make the slot wider. It will cause the Reed to be quieter than the rest and it is not reversible!

It sounds like you answered your own questions 1 & 2. A new amp would likely solve that.
#24
It still sounds like a Letoff issue to me. If you press the key slowly, does the hammer rise, then fall without touching the Reed, or does it just rise and stay there? You also may have taken away too much lost motion.
#25
Naphtha works better at removing the glue, and yes, to all reading this, never ever use acetone on any plastic piano parts.
#26
It's best to remove each key, one at a time. I use q tips to wipe it onto the pins if they are a little dirty. I don't put it directly onto the felt bushings unless they are squeaking, and even then, you don't want to add too much.

If pins are clean and it just needs lubing, use a pipette. Just a drop should do in most cases.
#28
I believe they clip on sideways.I'm sure someone else can confirm.
#29
Oops, I misread it, I thought you were asking for tine lengths. Why do you need the bar lengths?  Do those notes sound noticeably different?
#30
Sound only going to one side of the headphones is caused by using stereo headphones in the mono Jack. Either use mono headphones, or replace the mono Jack with a stereo Jack, and be sure to connect the + audio wire to both + terminals.
#31
Crackling noises in Wurlitzers can be caused by dust,dirt, pet hair or condensation on the reeds. Condensation happens when moving a Wurlitzer in cold weather, then turning it on too soon when brought indoors. Don't keep wasting money on parts until you are sure that parts are actually bad. Also, condensation can happen if you clean the reeds with compressed air.

If hammers are letting off too early, use the tool to adjust the capstan that trips the jacks. You will be turning the capstan clockwise (it's upside down, so left to right). Don't go too far or hammers may block against the reeds or even break them when hit hard. You may need to use long, needle nose pliers on the E and F n the middle of the keyboard where the metal braces are.
#32
Keys that have to be hit harder are usually letting off way too early. The Letoff tool is available on eBay. This is the single most common action adjustment needed in Wurlitzers.
#33
The hum in this model is sometimes caused by a worn out volume control.
#34
It was a page in the original service manual
It should be on this site somewhere
#35
There is a trim pot on the amp board, does turning this down lower the distortion?
Are you sure you don't have a bad output transistor?
I'm confused about why you were adding an 8 ohm resistor to the output.

True headphone outs should be about 32 ohms. (on modern equipment)
#36
Possible bad speaker(s). I've seen that happen more than once.
#37
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: 200A Key Reset Issue
January 11, 2023, 07:02:33 AM
Lubricate those trouble jacks first with Protek. Also, if this is happening on the treble end, be sure the hammers are not catching and hanging up on the Reed bar on their way back down. I just saw this problem 2 days ago.
#38
This is somewhat normal, but you might be able to reduce the noise if you gently squeeze the V shaped dampers with a clean pair of needle nose pliers. (Lift the dampers to squeeze)
Damper felts can get hard/crusty with age and kind of pluck the reeds a little.
The pliers usually soften the felts with 1 or 2 squeezes of the pliers, close to the end of the felt that sits on the reeds.
#39
I doubt that the rust will spread, but I need to ask, was there any evidence of mice being inside the piano? (droppings) if so, be careful, and wear gloves and a mask while cleaning. You can always clean the pins with WD40 on a rag, but I would not spray it into the piano for several reasons. Be sure not to get any near the reeds. If you do use wd40, don't leave the pins wet.

If you use a dremel wire wheel, wear a mask even if there is no mouse evidence. You don't want to inhale rust or pieces of wire from the wheel.
#40
The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: 200A Key Reset Issue
November 28, 2022, 05:15:47 PM
Letoff. Hammers are letting off waaay too early. Tool is available on eBay. This is very common with Wurlitzers.
#41
The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Damper release bar
November 15, 2022, 05:28:49 PM
Yes, that is loud. Add felt to the parts that hit each other.
#42
You should never sand or file the sides of the reeds, but at least it worked. The reason why you shouldn't do this is that it can weaken the metal,but it is far easier and cheaper to replace a broken Reed than a hard to find pickup that was filed too much. There must have been a solder burr or something on the Reed that was causing it to be too close to the pickup. Glad it worked out.
#43
You may have caused your own problems by removing the "pants" shims. Why do you think dip is excessive? Are hammers blocking against the reeds? Are the fronts of the sharps getting buried under the neighboring white keys when depressed? If not, you shouldn't waste time and money on this step. Deep dip makes the action feel lighter, shallow dip makes it seem heavier. Excessively deep dip can cause hammers to block against the reeds. Excessively shallow dip makes the action feel choked.

 I would not have removed those cardboard "pants" shims. If they were under the front rail, they were for dip, not key height. You removed those shims, now you want to replace them with individual shims on each key.

Again,the BALANCE rail height (and thickness of back rail cloth) affects key height, the FRONT rail height affects the dip.
#44
The only way I know if to tell if the hum is caused by the volume pot is to replace it unfortunately, but I have seen this to be the cause of hum in 2 Wurlitzers over the years. ALWAYS check for simpler solutions first, such as a bad ground somewhere.
#45
Are you positive that the Reed in that slot is not shorting out to the pickup? You will see small sparks if it is. Try cleaning out the slot first. If that doesn't work, very carefully filing the side of the pickup (NOT the Reed) should solve the problem, but like you said, is not reversible without a spare pickup. This must be done with power disconnected, and just a tiny bit of filing at a time. Use a small metal file. Be sure none of the aluminum dust shorts out other pickups. This is a tedious job, but is possible. You have to remove Reed,file, install Reed and check, lather, rinse repeat unless you are lucky enough to get it right the first time.

WARNING: as you probably guessed,if you file too much, that Reed will be much quieter than the others...
#46
The front rail shims have nothing to do with key height. They adjust key dip, prevent hammer blocking, and the green felt cuts down on noise.
#47
Yes, that is the best method.
#48

Re hum: possible bad ground connection somewhere. Or, a very worn out volume control, but check for bad grounds first.
#49
Simple- if the Reed blob is loose and rattles, a drop of super glue in the crack usually solves the problem.
#50
No, turning them does not change the spacing. They should be adjusted so the flatter sides are on the sides, the rounded are front and back. The balance rail pins can be gently tapped with a screwdriver and a hammer if keys are crooked, or too much space on one side, too close on the other. If front key bushings are very worn, you can try to turn the front pins a little to see if that tightens them up, but I don't really like doing this personally. It's better to replace the worn bushings.