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Didn't some guy here recently post this same problem and it turned out to be his computer monitor that was too-close by??

Do you have a computer monitor close by your rig??

:mrgreen:

"Buff"  them on a "buffing wheel".

Got a good University close by?
If they have a piano shop these folks may be able to do it for you- for a small fee- or a bottle of good vino.

:mrgreen:

Boys..!

:roll:

Try (like hell) to find maroon scotch brite pads and some elbow grease.

Hey good luck with it Dom!!

And I'm glad you found a Rhodes person who may be able to help you..

Removing old keytops is quite dangerous and I know of two technicians who have had severe damage (requiring surgery) to their hands due to removing old keytops.

Keep us posted on how you make out with all of this!

Hi Dom..

OK- I took a measurement and without getting into 32nd's and 64th's of an inch, here's what I came up with.

I have a stage 73 also.

I measured my C4:

width:   7/8"

head length: slighly longer than  1 7/8"
(measure from the 90 degree "notch"  to front of key)

complete overall length of key top:   5 13/16"


OK.

Here's some measurements of some stock replacement keytops I have:

width:   7/8"

head length:   1 15/16th

overall length:    6 1/8"

So.... seems the reaplacments will work.
But you'll need a good file for fine fitting and the correct glue.

Couple of questions now.

-How do you plan on removing the older ones? (most tech's use routers) and it can be *quite* dangerous if you even bring a knife into the picture. (You won't have as many fingers to play those nice, shiny keys...)

-Did you inquire as to how much your set would cost to have Vintage Vibe do the work? (Even if you just sent them the "bad' ones?)

And last but not least...sure you don't know anyone with a buffing wheel?
(I'll bet you could tackle that all yourself..)



Anyways- I hope this helps some.

OH- I don't know for sure but I wouldn't try to mix your model's keys with another one's keys.
In acoustic pianos anyways, the key angles are cut for that specific model and aren't interchangeable.

Best of luck!

Yeahhh.. they do look like wooden ones with plastic tops.
Have you emailed him yet?
I'd try to get in touch with him.
Hopefully you have the same model and the key angles might be slightly different.

:mrgreen:

OK I hear you...

And thanx for the clarification.

I make a living working on acoustic pianos and in this type of work we try to salvge what is original and if we can't, we replace it with something quite similiar.
I can't tell you how many customers wan't things "just so" and there's even more that will settle for nothing other than original parts refurbished.

People are funny... especially about keytops.

It's the part on the instrument we see and (obvoiously) touch.
If a nice shiny set of ultra-wite key tops were put on something that looked "vintage"... well....

You've seen old people with new dentures, haven't you??

Easy there Palester!!

I was just trying to figure out whther or not he needed a COUPLE of key tops rather than a whole set.
Why fix what isn't broken?

Now that I know he's not happy with the rest of the set I know better how to help him.

Sheesh!

I'll have a look Dom.

Where are you located, BTW??

Would you try to tackle this yourself or would you look into having the tops replaced by someone else?

 

yyyeahhh.. but then it wouldn't be so "original"!!

:wink:

:shock:

This story is fucking inCREDIBLE!!

I felt pangs of dismay and sadness when I read of your trip there and Little Austin carrying on and on...

I just LOVE these things, the whole idea of them and I truly hope to find one someday.
You are a VERY lucky guy!!

I best go check out your site !!

Glad it went to a good home!!

:mrgreen:

If the cigarrette burn marks are *at the very end of the keyboard* (either side) chances are the person playing set their lit WHATEVER down.

About your keytops Dom...

If I get around to it, I'll take a look at my Rhodes and see about the keytop issue.
I am a piano technician and I'll see if the keytops measure up the same with those in my supply catalogs..
But remember- it's the COLOR of them you'd like to match up too- and that can be even more difficult!

yeah... I just did a "google" search and that's what it is, but I recognized it more by what it's also known by:
"alphatic resin" <---- hope I got that right!

I am a piano technician and I use that glue I mentioned above (Weldbond) to re-glue felt on the nameboard/fallboard of acoustic pianos.

Without my Rhodes right here, I'm thinking it's an *aluminum* rail you'd  be glueing the felt onto instead of wood like on pianos.

I'm sure the PVA glue would work perfectly fine, but since it would be glueing metal to felt (instead of wood to felt- both porous materials) you might have to re-adhere it at some point down the road....




Hope this helps some.


:mrgreen:

Hiya..

If I'm reading your post correctly, I imagine you'd want to use a white craft-type glue that dries clear.

I use what's called "Weldbond" for most of my felt repairs and this glue will adhere it to anything.
It also dries clear.

I'm not sure if you can get it in the UK though..

If not- Elmers White glue (which I imagine you could get..lots of kids have it for school) would work just fine.

if you have children at home see if you can borrow some!



:mrgreen:

Retolexing...

there's something I need to do to one of the ones I have.
But before that- there's tons of case repairs.

So did all that work- and fix the problem??

Hmmm... I *think* whatever metal it is, it's only plating.

And why CLR? (Do you have rust?)

Have you considered a Dremel tool, some elbow grease and then  some Flitz??  (high end petal polish- works GREAT!)




:mrgreen:

:mrgreen:

You're spot-on dnarkosis-

There is a slight arc in the middle as this is the most played area of the keyboard in most cases.
Parts are made with materials which over time, compact and the regulation changes.

These multi-colored "punchings" are what's under keys to "level" them, and if that is indeed your problem (i.e.- just that you need to "level the keys") then have a look at the "how to" file if it gets posted to see how to do this.

I would not recommend at this time adding that arc to your keys because it's-geez- only a 32nd of an inch or so and it's quite subtle indeed.
And it's tough to add small increments without spiffy tools...

For first time attemptees, I would make them all the same height.

Yes punchings are purchased from piano supply houses, but they are so cheap and plentiful. I'm sure if you asked your freindly neighborhood piano technician (and you can  find one through a college, church or reputable piano retailer) for help with getting some, they'd be more than happy to oblidge.

Make sure that this is indeed the issue here and nothing else.

Those little paper discs are called "punchings" and they are what goes under the key to adjust the key leveling.

Each color of them is a different thickness.



:mrgreen:

:mrgreen:

It's easy chief..

If it's a decent "finished basement"- and no problems in the past with water getting in...

Buy a dehumidifier for  the summer and a humidifier for the winter.
These will cost some, but well worth it.
The DEhumidifier is most important in basements.

I have ALL of my vintage keys down in the (finished) basement, and my piano shop there too. (I am a piano technician..)

Ideal humidity is 42%.

A good hygrometer (measuring relative humidity) would be cool to have on the wall to keep an eye on things.

Good luck!

Awwwright Awwriiiight..

We've gotta stick together us vintage enthusiasts..!!



:mrgreen:

It *could*  be because this is generally the most played upon area of the keyboard and your's is now showing the signs.

There is sometimes a "crown" in the key leveling of an acoutic piano, and it's done on purpose because of this.

Picture might help in case it's something more mechanical as the problem.

:mrgreen:

Anything electronic, anything that generates tone (hammers, tines, etc...)
action parts that have teflon coated on them (some piano actions have this..)
damper felts, leather parts..

:mrgreen:

pfft!!

Wish it was where you  lived (in England) ..but I'm located in upstate NY unfortunately...

:shock:

Oh people!!

If I knew all this business was going on- I would have posted here sooner!

(BTW- I *am* one of those piano tech's that feels that the key bushing tightening tool  is evil....) You're severly messing up the wood around the key mortise!!
(okokokok- no manly-man jokes here.. heh!!)

Personally- rebushing keys is one of my most favorite jobs of piano work. I wish I could do it all day- and as long as I have my trusty stereo.

Yes there are tools to allow one to turn the front rail pin (which is oval) to the side to allow more of the pin to come in contact with the keybushing- therefore making the keys feel less loose and floppy.
The trick with this is to *lift up the paper punchings* surrounding the front rail and insert the tool *there* as to not damage the front rail pin in any way. The felt will disentegrate MUCH faster when the pin has been chewed up by lousy tools and not-so-good thinking.  (No offense to anyone who's done this, I hope..)

Anyways-

Here's hoping that you find a reliablee tech in your town who can explain your options and help you along with getting your Rhodes playing better.
Floppy keys are the worst feeling keys ever- and it makes a HUGE difference when the repair has been done and done correctly.

Cheers!!

Hope I read your post right...

In acoustic pianos, sometimes shims are added to the underside of the rails on the keyframe --> (the apparatus which the keys rest on, and then that rests on the keybed..)

Anyways- it was all a shortcut to help level the keys.
So if that was done on the bass section and not the treble that can be OK.

Paper or cardboard was the material of choice in the acoustic piano factory, but maybe in the Rhodes manufacturing they grabbed plastic instead.

If it looks kinda "glued in" or original, I wouldn't mess with.

You could do an experiment and measure the hieght of your keys with the shims in, then remove the shims and recheck your key height measurement.

Cheers!

Protek is by far the latest and greatest lubricant for actions.
It is quite expensive (as you may already know) but works well.
It can be used anywhere felt contacts metal.
(Even on the front and balance pins where the keybushings are.)

The CLP version is what you'd like to get your hands on and it should be applied with a hypo-oiler to areas.

Spraying anything in a piano action is bad becasue you never know where a product can end up. (And there's a handfull of areas where you DO NOT want any lubricants hanging around.)

The spray version (that you have?) of this is called "prolube" and while I do have a conatiner of this, I don't use it much. I have *no* idea if it's the same thing as the CLP.
I use this "prolube" only to help my centerpin extractor when it starts to jam up- and that is  metal-to-metal contact.

Get a container of "CLP" and a hypo-oiler and call me in the morning.

Swaged means pressed flat.

Most acoustic piano bass strings are like that underneath the copper windings. (Helps hold on the copper windings.)

:mrgreen:

Heh!!

Well I guess that settles that then!
Thanks Jim!
I initially looked in my photocopied manual but either the picture was bad or I missed it.
Thanks again.

:mrgreen:

Cummon.... really?

Somebody?

In any case if the guy sends you the first E (from the bottom)  tonebar from his 88, it'll match up.

Funny..

He sent me an email TONIGHT.
Hmmmmmmmm.... maybe he got wind of us talking about him??
He said he was out of town on some family business and that my parts will be arriving soon/any day now.
He said he tried to send them to me and they came back because he wrote down the address incorrectly the first time?

I will write back and **remind him that I'm not the ony one awaiting parts.!**

Maybe I shouldn't have posted this on here, but maybe you don't mind too much being that you are in the same boat.

I'll keep you posted.

(Hope you get your correct tonebar!)

Antispatula..

I'm writing to you as someone else who was had by the guy who said he had parts to sell. (Then we sent him money and he didn't send anything.)



Anyways-

Just went and checked my 73 out.

Hopefully soneone will back me up , but I'm 99.9% sure that:

The first note on a 73 (note E)  is the *8th* note on the 88. It would be the first E on the 88 going up from the bottom, chromatically.
(Middle "C" is note #40.)

Can someone gimmie an Amen??

Sorry- I'm just an acoustic piano technician- and I still don't know what I should about Rhodes actions.

I'm going to have to let one of the guru's answer the other half of your post.

Wish I could help you more!

The key "bushing" is the  red (most likely color)  felt that is glued into the keys mortises.

It's this felt that gets replaced when the keys start to wobble alot.

It can be found at the front-*under* the front of the key
and
at the balance (pivot point) on *top* of the key.

I'm not even sure if you can still buy those things- but DON'T if you can.

Icky!!

:mrgreen:

Get the real deal here.
You'll thank me later.

(Hope I don't sound too abrasive..)

opps... I meant up there "I don't understand  why this person WOULDN'T want to tackle this job.."

(But hopefully that was made clear by my comments afterwards..)

The *average* cost for keybushing- that's FRONT and BALANCE is about $150.00 (US dollars) here in the states.

Also in this job, is the responsibility of cleaning and polishing both the front and balance pins that the re-bushed mortices straddle. (And the keyframe itself.)

Why do a nice job of rebushing only to intruduce it all to a dirty, tarnished balance or front pin??

I do not understand why this person in question would tackle this job- and not "do electric pianos"....

The key is the same in that aspect, for  it does the SAME JOB as an acoustic piano (helps transfer info from your hand to the instrument)- and *more*  than that??

It helps make MUSIC!!

Why's that guy such a snoot??



Usually on felt related job I use animal hide glue- which is heated and a whole racket.  

I also use "Weldbond" glue- which is a white glue but dries clear. One can get this in the states easily enough in a hardware store around here.
It would work very well on lots of gluing jobs in the instrument and I personally carry some in my gear I use daily.

Again- find a competant tech- I have some names if you need some- and they can answer all of these questions for you, and/or by seeing what you'd like to overhaul on your Rhodes.

Ehhh..



Too bad you are in London- otherwise I'd come over and have a look see.

Silicone spray- is that to lube the front and balance pins?

Rendell- if that photo of that sharp key was the worst you have- all your keys need is  rebushing. Of course I'm not seeing the whole thing and keyboard -but you can do wonders with clamps, glue and steam to re-size things and repair.

Get in contact with a good piano tech. You can find them at schools, churches... they have the tools to do the job and the lubes to help in this area.

Wish I lived closer.

I personally am hoping he/she didn't order a new set of keys- because based on *that* photo- the key doens't look bad *at all*.

I a am a piano technician and one of my most favorite things to do is to re-bush keys.
I see all sorts of keys, in all sorts of shape- but nothing yet (thank God) that warranted a whole new, complete replacement set. In most cases keys and the wood involved can be repaired if damaged.

Please elaborate further upon why you got a new set if it's no bother.
(Or more great photos!!)

Oh!!

GREAT photos BTW- and thanx for sharing!

:mrgreen:

Hmmm..

Did you order new keys becasue of the way the key mortise looked in that photo? (Where the -non-existant- keybushings would usually be?)

If you know of a piano tech. have them get you some Cory keybrite.

It's something we can get from the supply houses and it's for keytop cleaning.

If not- a damp cloth will do for now.

Don't use any harsh chemicals.

:mrgreen:

:shock:

You found a Wurly on the side of the road on TRASH DAY??

Off with his head!!!!

(The trashers head..)

:shock:

HOLE-EEeeEE- s**t those are some GREAT photos.

I'll look again later but VERY COOL of you to have documented everything- and the Rhodes looks *wonderful*.

What a *fantastic* post!

Where do you live? (I'm dropping my Mark 1 off for the once-over!)

It'll be interesting to read other remarks- and with that I'll stop typing.

*THAT* was a dang nice post!

:mrgreen:

THanx for all of your posts.

Mine is from 1972 (I think)so a competely silver one would be my goal.
(But hey- I wouldn't scoff at ANY pedal that I come across.)

Just wanted to stay true to the model/vintage.

Thanx for your response..!!

So the photo on here shows a Mark 1 with a completely silver pedal-and did I see that photo correctly?

With your response about the all silver pedal being a Mark 2- is the photo wrong?



(And yeah- *any* pedal at this point would be cool- but I won't sweat it *too* much- for I've got the pedal for my Yamaha CP-80- AND the power supply!- so things could be worse!)