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Messages - cinnanon

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The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Rhodes Tine Length Curve
« on: February 13, 2019, 03:11:34 PM »
I believe DocWurly already has that!

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Rhodes Tine Length Curve
« on: February 11, 2019, 04:12:01 PM »
Totally agree. I'm just using the formula to find a "best-fit" curve to determine if the tine lengths have error, or find out why they are the way they are.

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Rhodes Tine Length Curve
« on: February 11, 2019, 12:49:48 PM »
Yea! The chart says 5.344” for tine 13, which is almost negligible difference. I wonder if the differences are due to the type of tuning that was used (perfect thirds vs perfect fifths or whatever they are)

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Rhodes Tine Length Curve
« on: February 11, 2019, 10:05:55 AM »
So the chart you transcribed goes to the resolution of 1/64 of an inch (.015625"), which should be plenty good enough for a good smooth tine length curve. I'll take into account the tuning springs also. Are all tines the same base tine, just cut to length?

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Rhodes Tine Length Curve
« on: February 11, 2019, 10:01:32 AM »
Yes I missed the "2" in that constant.  I corrected it a bit ago. The caret is an exponent yes.

I actually did use your tine cutting chart information from that link below. Since the VV tine chart didn't have lengths, I didn't bother.

What i'm doing is probably overkill for sure. I thought maybe there were certain notes with undesirable harmonics or resonant frequencies at certain lengths so they were altered.

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Rhodes Tine Length Curve
« on: February 10, 2019, 07:40:03 PM »
I see only one change in the manual between notes 33 and 34. VV has five different tuning springs.

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Rhodes Tine Length Curve
« on: February 10, 2019, 07:30:17 PM »
That’s right! Is there a chart somewhere with those changes? I see VV has one, is there an original one?

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Rhodes Tine Length Curve
« on: February 10, 2019, 03:43:51 PM »
Hi all, i've been searching and searching for this topic and couldn't find anything.  If you can link me to a previous topic that would be much appreciated. I apologize if it's been discussed before.

My question is in regards to the tine length charts that i've seen. Is there any reason why they are not nice smooth curves? Instead they look like someone traced them after the fact. Was it so that someone could use a ruler and the lengths were rounded to nearest fractions?

The nerd in me wanted to find a formula for the curve, so I threw all the tine lengths I found in a previous post in excel to see which tines had the most "error" in lengths.

The formula I found to fit the best was an exponential formula, and it came out to


where "x" is the key number and "y" comes out to the length. In this formula "e" is Eulers number (2.71828), not "times ten to a power"

What I found is that the tine lengths are on average .027" off. The one I found to be the farthest off is key 19. It is .081" off of the curve. The closest one was within .001", key 42.  I can't upload my spreadsheet but i'll post a picture later.

Don't know the size but they sell some at home cheapo

Buying / Re: WTB: Wurlitzer 200 series hum shield
« on: January 25, 2019, 11:53:38 AM »

Buying / WTB: Wurlitzer 200 series hum shield
« on: January 24, 2019, 08:43:12 PM »
Looking for a large hum shield for a 200 series, not the tiny comb-like reedbar shields. The one that spans the entire top of the action. PM if you have one you can sell. Thx!

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 206a - To chop or not to chop?
« on: December 29, 2018, 09:49:08 AM »
I thought of that too but I would advise against putting a large speaker and amp in there. Some 206’s feed back already and you will get tons more if you beef up the cabinet. If you do you should isolate the keyboard as much as you can from the cabinet with springs, soft rubber or other doo-dads.

 The superglue is just for gluing the bump mod.  For gluing felt I have seen people use hide glue, PVC-E glue, 3M yellow weatherstripping adhesive.  I have used PVCE glue multiple times in the past for key bushings, but I recently found out it may be the same stuff as Aleenes tacky glue sold in Home Depot and craft stores for a buck or two for 8 ounces.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: More Questions on Dating a 200A
« on: December 14, 2018, 05:53:56 PM »
So there actually is good information in that thread but i'll summarize.  There are a bunch of places to get dates inside the wurlitzer.  On the keys is a date code.  First digit is the last digit of the year (i.e. 70304192 is 1977).  2nd and third digits of that number are the month, and 4th and 5th digits are the day. The example would be March 4, 1977.  There is also a number stamped on the back of the action on the treble side.  Same format.  The transformer also has an EIA format code from which you can tell the date. The pots also have date codes. The large black chip on the amplifier has a date code.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: More Questions on Dating a 200A
« on: December 14, 2018, 01:01:01 PM »
This thread should give you a starting point.  The serial number does not really have anything to do with it. It will give you a general timeframe, but it is not numerically related to any dates. There are many places under the hood which give more accurate timeframes.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Leveling a Harp
« on: December 12, 2018, 12:22:17 PM »
Probably the greatest mystery of all :P

This will always be there to some effect, but shouldn't be that noticeable. Check your damper regulation (1/32" max  gap between damper arm and felt on damper rail). Yours is probably larger.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Dating a Wurlitzer
« on: December 09, 2018, 01:22:25 PM »
The 8 digit stamp on the keys had the first numeral smeared, both on the bass side of the keyboard and the treble side. The stamp reads X0421370.

My 8 digit stamp code was 40422442 (1964) but the action is stamped 50304055 (1965). Your keys are probably 1964 also.

The speaker only had a part number and manufacturer code stamped on it, the manufacturer being Carbonneau.

My carbonneau speaker reads 651109-1, 719, 417 which probaly 1965 also. What's yours say?

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Escapement Adjustment Post Miracle Mod
« on: December 09, 2018, 07:14:41 AM »
I have a '77 Stage 73 and I just performed the miracle mod. I had the felts on the hammer cams and painstakingly removed those. I installed .054" felt on the .065" bumps with good success. Afterwards, the escapement was really high at both ends of the keyboard. The action felt good, but still sluggish. On top of either aluminum harp support were particle board shims, about .130" thick. I scraped them off and in doing so, achieved a pretty ideal escapement across the board. The action is much more responsive and quick and light like I thought it would be. No hammer bounce either. I did have to adjust the dampers slightly at the bridle strap point. Has anyone else had to remove those particle board shims after a miracle mod? I've read stories of adding shims since the modification supposedly adds height, but I think in these models it is reversed if you do it the way I did.  The white hammer cam felt was much thicker than the pedestal felt that I installed. To me that sounds like the hammer starts off lower rather than higher and also changes the stop-lock position.

The first and last pickups are dead on a Rhodes i'm working on. Seems too coincidental. Could it have been from a voltage spike that burned those pickup wires? I get measurable resistance across all other pickups

Thanks again for your input, this has been extremely helpful and I'll be posting back with results as soon as I get them.

I've heard of a similar problem with an Auto Vari drum synthesizer causing hum while sitting on top of a Hammond A100.  See below:

Owner: So I picked up an AV64 to use with my A100 and now I have a hum problem .I can make the hum go away by pushing the 16' pedal drawbar in or raising the AV64 a foot or 2 above the organ.

The AV 64 is sitting on Ken Rich straddles. Leslie kit is a 6122 to a 122. The 5u4 tube is pulled and I don't use the organ speakers at all, as it's connected like a B3 to the g-g terminals. The AV64 is playing thru a keyboard amp with no noise there The hum comes out the Leslie woofer.

I put put a layer of foil under the AV64 to no avail. Help please

Guy 1: Move the unit as far to the right as it will go. The hum is likely being induced into the matching transformer, which is on the left end of the organ, just under the top.

Owner: You are right. I moved it and it is overhanging the right edge by about 8 inches but the hum is gone. Thanks for the tip.

Guy 2: You said you put foil under the auto/vari. Try grounding the foil to the main amp with a clip lead and see if the hum goes away. My E-100 has foil mounted under the top of the organ which is grounded.Good luck, I hope you find the problem.

Guy 3: The typical tone wheel Hammond has a matching transformer on the upper left side (bass end) that is very sensitive to EMF that can be generated by transformers for example. Many older instruments caused hum when set on top of old Hammonds. The ARP string ensemble was one for example.

Shielding EMF is hard to do. Foil will shield RF but not EMF. The "shielding" needs to be thicker and have properties that in fact shield EMF, like mu-metal.

I had a church with horrible hum coming from the organ. Turns out an electric clock sitting on the left side was the culprit. Simply moving it to the other side eliminated the problem. This is the same reason placing a Leslie too close to the left side will cause hum.

Your damper arms look abnormally bent. They should be mostly straight I believe.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 206a - To chop or not to chop?
« on: November 06, 2018, 01:19:11 PM »
I saw on Reverb a chopped 203W. Front cover came off and revealed chrome legs and a separate sustain pedal. It also revealed latches that allowed the top to detach. Pins for aligning it back up. Selectable between lid speakers, lid+ front cabinet, lid + back cabinet, or front+back cabinet speakers. Any possible combination you can think of. When detached the top played through just the lid speakers. The result is still a heavy beast, but you can't tell it's been chopped.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 206a - To chop or not to chop?
« on: November 05, 2018, 10:10:19 AM »
Unfortunately it already isn't an original 206A... the faceplate is a 200A faceplate. Heck it might even have vibrato already with history like that.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 206a - To chop or not to chop?
« on: November 02, 2018, 07:03:59 PM »
That the one that sold for $725 in Georgia? Nice buy! I'd chop it safely so you can always revert. If you don't plan on moving it for a while then i'd leave it be.

It's wurlitzer definitely (you may already know that though...) and a pretty good one at that. Digital wurlies sound good played softly like this until you push them, then the digital comes out and they fail IMHO.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: DIY 140B Pickup Circuit
« on: October 13, 2018, 10:46:54 AM »
Borish electronics has just designed a preamp that runs off a 9V battery only and outputs line level. Supposedly the reedbar is only at a few volts potential.

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Methods for Removing Hammer Cam Felts
« on: October 08, 2018, 09:08:00 PM »
I've searched for the different methods of removing hamming cam felts and came up with nothing. Based on some videos it sounds like denatured alcohol is best to use over acetone or naptha. I am OK with that. I'm looking more for the process. I have successfully de-felted a few sets of hammer cams with rubber gloves, denatured alcohol and some Wypall wipes (think paper towels on steroids). The result is a beautiful residue-less finish on the cams but it feels like i'm scrubbing the floor with a toothbrush.  Does someone have a method they don't mind sharing for an easier way to do this? I'm thinking dunking all 12 cams into a "pool" of denatured alcohol (only the bottom portion where the felt is located). It seems like the more I can saturate the residue the easier it comes off. Heck even a toothbrush might be something to try? This is my first rhodes and first bump mod. It's a 77 stage 73. If elbow grease is the answer im OK with that too. Just curious if there are easier methods.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Some DIY reflections
« on: August 13, 2018, 03:45:07 PM »
I was listening to some early Ray Charles versions of What'd I Say and I can hear some slightly out of tune notes as well as one or two that are a little dead-sounding. It is that Wurli sound and action that makes it so distinct from the Rhodes.

No two wurlitzers sound alike, this is what makes them unique! I believe the greatest contributor (after complete regulation and tuning/voicing) to tonal differences/anomalies lies in the shape of the solder pyramid. Behind that, imperfections in the aluminum harp castings that make some notes/ranges resonate duller/brighter than others. Every harp has a resonant frequency that, when hit, absorbs certain frequencies/energies from certain notes. Even the wood base can absorb/resonate certain frequencies. Again, all minor audible differences and also my opinion.

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