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Still sticking after Protec. Maybe it is something impinging the side. If no easy resolution, is there any merit in adding some weight to the hammer?

I'll check the sides as best I can.

The highest C is visible, and the next faulty action is the A below it.

Thanks again.

I'll be out of country for a few days and will work on this when I get back. Very helpful.

Thanks, so at least these 3 felts?

Thanks for the rapid and helpful reply.

Southern Alberta is quite dry.

Years ago I ordered Protec CLP which I have stored in the B3 bench along with a small squeeze bottle with a nice, long needle. Since I am not a pro, and am only now getting up enough nerve to try maintenance and repair, I would be grateful for the assumption by others that I am ignorant..

I am hoping not to disassemble, at least for this highest note. If that is possible, where and how would I inject the lubricant, and what other advice would you give? I have found videos that are helpful, and one demonstrated lost motion as one problem that may account for my problem

I am attaching a diagram for this purpose.

Thanks.

I don't want to do the wrong thing here. I have 2 upper hammers that don't fall back. It almost seems that a little lubricant might do the trick, but I'm not sure. Here is a photo and the area circled is where I think things are held up, because I can lightly push down on it, and the hammer assembly drops. It sounds gross to say that my fy is sticking on the butt, but (no pun), how do I unstick it?
Thanks,
Dave

PS: I did not entitle myself to"Sparkletop." May be appropriate because of hair loss. But how do I change that?

Very interesting. If every note in a string session was in tune with all others, I think it would sound dead. Fortunately, they usually use a vibrato to "hide" the "error" but, error and vibrato combined, there is an unmistakable beauty to it. 

I have a DX7 and a TX7 piggybacked with Midi, and I detune one to the other, which makes piano sounds gorgeous, almost a chorus effect. Very boring when they are both at 440.

You can go too far with detuning! When I was in medical practice, I was losing hearing such that stethoscope audio was poor, so I underwent surgery. For days, one ear was a semi-tone off the other!!! I thought my music life was over. But it's a condition called diplacusus, and gradually resolved once the inflammations settled down. Unfortunately, there are some very bad bands out there with permanent, unredeemable diplacusus, and they should be encouraged to take up another profession...

Just saw this, and likely far too late, but I hated the action on mine compared to my Wurlitzer 200A, so I did the "miracle mod." Look it up and see if you want to tackle it. I am very happy with the result.

I sent for the very thin plastic rods, cutting them up, removing the keys, stripping the felts back, gluing the rod bits in place and the felts back.

It is nowhere near the Wurly action, but far better than it was, and more like a regular piano. One of those DIY projects that are gratifying. .

Absolutely. I think the Ray Charles' What'd I Say" was so good because of the funky messed-up keys and reeds on that old Wurli.

You gave great advice.

On another note (pun) I had 3 notes that kept ringing and tried to rotate that back vertical screw to dampen better but to no avail. So I teased the felts a bit and pulled their forked beards wdownward hile securing them so the glue didn't give way and that did the trick. Its so nice to have analog things like the Hammond and Wurli and Rhodes that just need some TLC. Heaven help me when The Korg M1 or the DX7 go...

Although a retired health professional, I was a band drummer in my youth, primarily, but always enjoyed playing keyboards and guitars and still jam. Here is what the 200A sounds like after the maintenance, on an iPhone: https://voca.ro/15byoWT1fkUg[/url]  I really love the action compared to the Rhodes, even though I had done the miracle mod" or "bump" to improve the feel. I think the Wurlitzer engineers hit it out of the park.

Novice here, now with great respect for the Wurli techs.

There is something about help from a forum that gives you the courage to forge ahead. The warnings about filing in place made me decide to not be so lazy.

So I removed the G2 and used a sponge sander to sand the pyramid a little, just enough to see scratches.
Wish I had tiny fingers, because getting that reed and screw out without dropping it into the shadows is a challenge, as is the reverse. 

Funny, because the pitch rises a bit with really tightening. Good to know. Just that tiny amount of sanding brought the pitch into an acceptable range. What I mean by that is that I am using the free app, PanoTuner, and when you are close, the needle is in the green, but not dead centre. Sounds good enough for now, and sometimes best is the enemy of good.

So I went for the C#4 which was flat. That one made me nervous because of its delicacy or fragility. I did minimal sanding, and found that positioning these smaller reeds is a pain. At times it sounded like it was going to be the same pitch as C4 as I was testing powered off. Not for long.

I need to get a set of operating headlamp/lenses that the specialty surgeons use in the OR.

No question that tightening it right up brought it up to an acceptable pitch.

I can say that trying to slide the reed forward as far as possible in the screw does actually work for those reeds that are a little flat. I went after C1 after the above and it worked.

Thanks for the advice, Alan and Steve! Now on to other fixes...

Very kind advice. I had read a Facebook post from a tech who had to service a 200a where a novice had filed the actual reeds themselves!

I have the power off (using the knob) when I am adjusting the reeds, but are you saying that the capacitors could give me trouble or leakage from line voltage?

I keep getting ads for turbo handheld blowers and maybe one would work for cleaning particles.

I also have some reeds that have lower volume than others. Bending the adjacent leaves of the pickup slightly upwards even with the reed seems to be one solution, and would you agree?

Thanks very much.

I may not have searched here hard enough, but I am hoping that someone can advise.
I have a 200A from the 70s with 2 reeds that are flat, in spite of my trying to reposition them forward as much as possible. That worked for 3 others that were flat.
So, I can order the new ones, which will cost about $100 Canadian with delivery, or I can try filing.
Questions:
1.  With the power off, has anyone tried a Dremel with smaller sanding head to remove tiny amounts at a time from the top of the solder mound?
2.  Is it risky to gently, manually file while still installed?
3.  Any other tips?
Thanks very much.

Great story with a happy ending.

We have a Yamaha C# grand, and recently when I played a middle D, the D# always sounds and vice versa. So I took the fallboard out and found more grandkid fun things: a ballpoint pen and a felt heart lying on the strings. Another happy ending.

It's another story of things being where they shouldn't. Retired endoscopist here. Story of my life...

Thanks for the advice, Alan. Very helpful.

I had tried almost all of the variants except swapping out with a good tine, so I'll try that.

Best,

Dave

Happy New Year. My old Rhodes C2 was running sharp, so I have been trying, as an amateur, to move the coil spring further out without creating a problem and without removing the assembly, and found the perfect tool (for me). I have a screw tip case with small bits, some unusual, but there were 3 U-shaped bits, one of which will hug the tine perfectly. The holder is thin enough to slip down between tine assemblies to just behind the spring. Using the handle of another screwdriver, I tapped on the holder a few times to slide the spring distally, and within a minute, I had the tine tuned to correct pitch.

While I am here, a quick question. I have 2 dull tines, so I have ordered new ones but have been cautious about cutting to proper length. What is the best recommended plier set, and if I err, is it better to err on the side of too long? If so, how much leeway would I have sliding the spring procimally to raise the pitch to correct? I.e., what is the pitch range that the spring affords?

Thanks in advance.

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

I did the bump mod on mine and I am very happy with it, but when I go from my old Wurly to the Rhodes, it's kind of like taking a shower with your socks on, or running from a monster in a dream, your feet stuck in deep mud. Even after the mod.

But removing the mod bumps would be like having the power steering quit on my  truck. Or using a hand pump to put air in my car tires. Or mowing our lawn with scissors instead of the JD997.

If you actually do a retrofit, let us know how it went. 

Steveo,

That kind of deal needs to be savoured over and over again. $50. Even 25 years ago that was fabulous. Congratulations.

Love these stories.

Therefore way better than a physician!

This is all very helpful. What does the "Doc" stand for?

Dave

Very interesting thread. I bought my 200A a few months ago for $!750, because it was an estate item that had been well cared for, cosmetically and mechanically. I am certain that many here have paid a much better price. But a vintage, iconic instrument like this, with such a beautiful action, was worth it to me.

It's nice to know that the original price was up there.

You know, I've changed my mind. That is a piece of art. it's a very thoughtful chop. As a mater of fact, chop is a term that is too lowly for this creative masterpiece. Wurlitzer should have thought of this in the first place for this model. Before I got the 200A, I had one of these. I didn't like the look.

Did everybody catch the vivisection comment?

Now THAT is colourful and full of passion!

I don't think that we have to be purists when it comes to preservation. Replacing the board on my 200A with a Retrolinear keeps me loving the rig. Before that, it was "what the heck is wrong NOW?" And the VariVibe, well, I kept the original faceplate, and I love the sound even more.

And with the Rhodes, I stripped the felts back and glued in the little "miracle mod" rod bits and reglued. Not original, but the action is so much better.

There is room for a huge array of opinions here, seeing the discussions healthy. 

Just an opinion.

That is too nice a relic to do this to.

There will be a day when those student pianos will be rare. Primarily because they get chopped, or, because of their weight and size, get dropped down the stairs or out the back of a van for a gig. And it might just be that you could regret the chop in the future.

I have an old B3, a Rhodes and a Wurlitzer, and the one keyboard that I think can't take the "oops" is the Wurlitzer. The board is delicate. The reeds are an accident waiting to happen. The old solder joints will fail when you need them most (because one jolt back a few weeks ago weakened a solder). What would make me take them to a gig is pure pride, plus the multi-sensory experience of playing the real thing with fellow musicians and an audience that appreciates the nuances of the keyboards (rare).

Again, just an opinion, and if you do go ahead, it would be great to see how it looks cosmetically.

Thanks.

Thanks, Steve.

On the clips, the aluminum looks thiner and more pliable than mine.

Here's what they demonstrate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBxZhqvFCCM&frags=pl%2Cwn

It's at 3:33 in.
ut my projections are nowhere near as pliable.

Like that one. And I guess that you can go for the thinnest of the gauges and see what happens to the tone and volume of that individual note.

In the early VV Youtube instructional clips, there is one that clearly shows bending pickup projections to alter tone. My concern is not being able to find my way back home! Have any of you experienced members tried that and would actually endorse it?

No, they are not adjustable. But it was really nice to switch to the nylon base.

Great information here.

What I like is that there is a younger crowd who don't settle for Lounge Lizard plug-ins (which I find not bad) but go for the real thing. This is Simon Oslender in Germany at the age of 16 in a bar at 4 a.m. jamming on a 200 series and making it sing. He is quite good on the B3 at emulating past masters of R&B as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8sGPFPGeuw

Love the real Wurli and long may they survive! (and may mine survive my tinkering....)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rggldf1c6c
I was listening to some early Ray Charles versions of What'd I Say and I can hear some slightly out of tune notes as well as one or two that are a little dead-sounding. It is that Wurli sound and action that makes it so distinct from the Rhodes. I have done the bump mod on the latter, but the action still isn't as light as the Wurli.

One of the threads here also addressed bending the pickup projections to alter tone, but that one does not sound like a great idea. Besides, mine are ticker than what was described in the thread.

So I'll try the reed bar screws. But if I need to realign the hammer tips, I guess a heat gun is better than the edge of a soldering gun.

Nice tip! Thanks.

Pablo.

I have come full circle with looking at VV videos from 2003. These specifically detail tuning and may be helpful to you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf9nGmRImsg&frags=pl%2Cwn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6yo-uSiH90&frags=pl%2Cwn

Very grateful for the weighing in on this. So. overall the first two octaves on this estate 200A were dull. The upper keys were quite loud in comparison. Now, the first two octaves are coming to life, but a good number of notes have not very pleasing overtones. So I'll get a feeler gauge and try that, but wonder if I achieve exact center if I will end up going back to the dull sounding tines.

But it almost seems that loosening, repositioning and tightening alone has done something good. Is that possible?

And I agree that it would be great to have some video archives started here to demonstrate some of the art of this.

Quite a long list of experiences with Wurlitzer EP's!

Another 2 questions: As I remove, check, position and tighten these reeds down, I notice that one or two are now flatter than before the removal. Do you recommend a technique for repositioning the reed to bring the pitch back up again? Physically, what do you use to slide them slightly in the right direction?

One dull sounding note has not improved like the others. It has a slight curve vertically. Is that part of the problem?

Thanks.

Steel drum. I like that. A cheap steel drum.

I have to use a headlamp to really see the gap well. But if I put the gauge on the right side, and tighten, the reed will likely rotate into it, and no more boing....thanks for that.

And I do not want to snap a screw head. Backing the body out, then maybe having to use wood filler if the result is a bit of a mess, could result in a less than optimum tone for that reed.

Thanks again.

All very helpful again. I am just going after the dull sounding notes, were the volume is noticeably less. Some have been mercilessly tightened, requiring a fair amount of effort to loosen them. The rotation of the reed tends to occur just when I start tightening, rarely at final tightening.

One other thing I have noticed is the appearance of odd overtones, some of them not nice, when I reposition, and I gather that this is where the art comes in. It almost seems that microns make a difference. And maybe some difference between proximity to the left pickup projection compared to the right. Literally, I can spend 20 minutes just trying to get the volume and tone just right. Hats off to you pros, and I wish we had someone like you within driving distance in this part of Canada.

Thanks. Very helpful.

Steve, I am trying to go just a little off centre to get the volume up by bringing it closer to the pickup, and when I tighten it while holding it, it tends to move just that small amount to make contact.

Cinnamon, replace the flattened washer or the screw? What will be the result? My understanding is that the washer is actually conical, introducing a bit of spring to it, such that the amount of tightening can change the pitch, as well as help stabilize the reed when tightening.

Thanks to both!

Probably most of the gang here already knows this, but I thought that I would share what I have found.

I've been tinkering with my 200A ever since I bought it via eBay as an estate item. From middle C upwards, it has a lot of beef. But quite a few of the notes below this, all the way down, have been muted. So I bought a dedicated nut screwdriver set, rather than using my socket set, and found that simply adjusting the right-left proximity to the pickup projection on either side of the reed has made quite a difference. Doing this can change the pitch, so I will be working on the "Y" axis, trying to slide the reed forward or back a little.

The bottom line: try this first before purchasing new reeds. The piano is getting brighter in the lower register.

Question: Does anyone have a tip in terms of preventing the reed from swivelling as you tighten the nut?

Nice, Tim.

I'll call you.

Yikes. Thanks for the insights.

We are in Alberta, so we won't be sending in the unit. I guess we will leave it alone. Is the idea of the LED just to show the technician that the vibrato is working, without needing audio signal confirmation?

Thanks, Alan. I need to ensure that the reed is not anywhere near the pickup when I turn the unit back on.

I am very happy with Retrolinear's variable vibrato.

But that pulsating red light sits all alone back there, and should actually replace the orange light behind the jewel.

Has anybody done that modification? Probably desoldering, then soldering in wiring to bring it into line with the jewel?

Or am I asking for trouble?

I know this has been covered before, but I would appreciate your humouring me.

The 200A came from a home. It looks like it has not been Jerry Lee Lewised.

C#4 is a bit lower pitched and out of tune, and I am hoping that it is not a shot reed, considering the more gentle care it has had over the decades.

So, should I loosen it and slide it slightly backwards? File off a tiny bit of solder? Leave it alone?

Thanks,

Dave

I ordered the Retrolinear amp today.

I think I did the right thing for my configuration with the variable vibrato....

This is all very useful. Thanks for posting.

Replace replace replace! Enough already! So I should do this....

I would like to know which replacement amp is the best, cost aside. Retrolinear vs VV in my tortured mind...

He's fastidious, and would never work with the amp on, always unplugs power cords, etc. He did fix one burnt trace and some cold solders.

He did replace my board fuses with 2 resettables which I bought through Ken Rich.

I am sure that this is my fault. I do remember having the power on when the PCB was unscrewed from the rail and seeing a funny, almost imperceptible coloured flash beside the board, on the rail, and the main fuse blew.

And the burnt trace was my fault as well.

Wish I was learned enough to tackle electronics. You might be right that it could be a wire downstream from the amp, but I suspect something on the board.

I guess I have 2 options. One would be to take the board down to a TV repair facility with the schematic. The other would be to simplify lie with a Retrolinear replacement. Hate to give in or give up, though...

Congratulations on the purchase of that one!

Good question, Steve. I bought the resettables for him to install, as I really dislike the stock board fuses or the fuse holders that create a jungle.

He is great at tube amps, but I think he just loathes the board, a sentiment not rare among Wurli owners. 

Perhaps it would be less expensive and less troublesome if I just sprung for the Retrolinear amp replacement.

This is very helpful, Tim. Looks like a very good price.

There is an art to soldering, and I need to learn the art. (I burnt part of a trace recently). Until then, I will try to find another tech interested in tackling the board.

Thanks.

Dave