Messages

(Funny how this has just become a private chat between the two of us now.)

Anyway, here's something to think about... the Peterson preamp. I pretty much gave up on it and am just using an external modern preamp and it's so much better now. More treble, more bark, less mud, less boomy bass. I think the Peterson has a lot of fans on this forum but also a lot of detractors. Sadly, I might be in the latter. It just doesn't sound great on my 1972 - and I've had the preamp recapped and serviced. Again, it sounds awesome through headphones, but not through the cabinet speakers.

So before you go down the new speakers route, try hearing your suitcase through a newer preamp that can give you more clarity and sparkle.

I searched older posts and Ben Bove who restores tons of Rhodes in LA and knows his stuff (check out his youtube video with Dr. Mix if you haven't seen it already) recommends Jensen C12N speakers. Could be worth checking out. They're cheaper than the Weber blue dogs. My cabinet has Fender Utah speakers which I know nothing about - my tech told me he thinks the original owner of my Rhodes put them in at some point because they're not stock.

And for what it's worth, last night I did an acoustic test and moved my suitcase from my spare bedroom (where it currently lives against the wall) into the middle of my larger living room. When I sat down to play it, I didn't hear a substantial difference. BUT when I had my wife play it and I sat down on the couch with the rear speakers facing me, it was night and day.  It makes me think the suitcase sounds I've been hearing all these years on records and videos, etc aren't really indicative of what the actual player hears when he's sitting behind the piano with the speakers blasting his knees. That's the fear I have with replacing the speakers - how much of a difference will it really make for the player?

AA - I feel your pain, man. After years of owning a stage and having suitcase envy, I finally got myself a beautiful 1972 suitcase with the original Peterson preamp. I got everything serviced, regulated, and brought up to specs and the results were... underwhelming. Very bassy/boomy, no sparkle or bark, even with the treble knob all the way up and the bass all the way down. And just like you, it sounds amazing through headphones but through the speakers? Bad.

I do think the acoustics in the room along with the rear speakers hitting the wall could be a factor but again, like you, I don't have a ton of options to relocate it in my home. Also, I think what everyone says about the suitcase is true -- speakers aimed at your knees are never gonna sound as good to the player than to the listener.

I tried swapping the Peterson with a more modern preamp and that definitely helped (sucks that it means the Peterson is therefore unusable). I also tried an EQ pedal with the Peterson in the hopes I could get more treble and lose the mud. The pedal got rid of the mud but wasn't great with helping the treble and only added more noise. So the only thing left is to replace the speakers - which I'm reluctant to do unless I'm sure it could really make a big difference.

If you do replace yours and are happy, let me know. This whole experience has left me wondering why I had suitcase envy for so many years when my stage Rhodes through studio monitors on either side of my head sounded gorgeous.  If there are any suitcase owners reading this, I'd love to understand what I'm missing.

Hey guys. I just got lucky and got my hands on a beautiful 1972 suitcase with a peterson preamp. I have two questions:

1) The vibrato isn't stereo panning and sounds more like a mono vibrato (the sound is going in and out as opposed to left and right). To test the speakers, I unplugged the peterson preamp and plugged in headphones into the speaker cabinet and plugged in a guitar to both external amplifier inputs on the cabinet. For input #1, I heard the guitar in my left ear. For input #2, I heard it on the right. Am I right in assuming this means both channels/speakers/amps are working correctly? Is the culprit most likely the peterson preamp and one of those pesky bulbs that's tied to the vibrato?

2) This model doesn't have an FX loop and doesn't have extra holes drilled into the rail to accommodate one. If I want to install a loop into the peterson preamp, will I have to drill into the rail AND the harp cover since the space there is so tight? Anyone out there have any experience with this and can offer tips on how to minimize the damage?

Thanks!

Hey guys. I've been looking to buy a Fender Rhodes Mark 1 suitcase for a while now -- hopefully a 1974/5 or below since I dig that sound. However, I just saw a listing for a Rhodes Mark 1 suitcase made in early 1977. Before I make the long trip out there to play it, just wanted your opinion on that particular year for Rhodes pianos. I understand that 1976-77 was a transitional year for the piano and lots of good and some not very good changes were made. Any thoughts on those pianos and what to expect? Is the sound of a Mark 1 early '77 gonna be closer to a Mark II or the Mark I? Thanks for any thoughts!

Hi guys. I have a Mark 1 Stage in a home setup and I'm looking to recreate that beautiful lush panning vibrato sound associated with the suitcase rhodes. Currently, my piano goes into a preamp (with stereo vibrato) and then into a mixer (so I can play with headphones). My question is: from the mixer, should I then go into a pair of powered speakers or powered studio monitors? What's the difference (I'm staying away from guitar amp options as I've gone down those before). Is there a particular size of speaker/monitor I should be looking for? Any recommendations? Thanks!

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Jenzz - How do I check to see if the damper arm springs are too loose? Is this the same as adjusting the damper regulating screws to 1mm?  Also, just curious... how do the dampers effect key resistance (do they only do this when the sustain pedal is pressed?)

Steve - I have a 200 (non A).  And yes, some of the keys wiggle more than usual.  Looking at a copy of the Wurlitzer manual, if I need to tighten any of the key bushings, that might be out of my league and will require a professional.

Hey guys.... So I have a 200 that was in bad shape when I first bought it. The action was very sluggish and keys would get stuck, etc.  So I completely disassembled it and lubricated the whip assemblies, the pins, etc.  I also regulated it (adjusted the let-off) and tuned it, etc.  Made a big difference.

BUT when playing it, the action always felt different than my Rhodes.  It felt less substantial, not enough weight/resistance when I press down on the keys. Playing the Rhodes feels more like a piano whereas playing the 200 feels more like a toy piano.  I chalked that up to the Wurlitzer and Rhodes being two different types of pianos.

BUT last night I got a chance to play a friend's student model Wurlitzer (the one with the attached amp... almost like a suitcase model).  He just bought it and has done NOTHING to it.  And the action was amazing.  Playing it felt like playing a Rhodes.  Pressing down on the keys, it felt there was weight and resistance.  Whereas mine has a clickety-clack feel (sometimes I even hear the wood of the keys hitting something).

My question: what have I done wrong on my 200? Could I have overlubricated the key pins? How can I tighten up the resistance so that playing it feels weighter?  Thanks!

Hey guys.  Anyone have any experience trying this pedal with a Rhodes?  Thoughts?

I had the same issue with my Stage Mark 1 and discovered the pick-ups for those specific keys weren't screwed in tight enough.  While voicing, I loosened them and never screwed them tighter after I was done.  Hope this helps.

Anyone have any recommendations for a good delay pedal for my Mark 1?  I tried the MXR Carbon Copy and found it to be way too noisy.  Has anyone tried out the Strymon El Capistan?

Hey guys.... Has anyone out there ever heard/played both of these preamps and can offer a comparison?  My Stereo Vibe is on the fritz and I'm debating whether to repair it vs. buy the retroflyer and was wondering the major differences.

Thanks!

Well, I went directly off the harp and still heard the buzzing when playing notes... which means it's not the preamp.

I checked the ground wires but wasn't sure what I was looking for.  They seemed screwed in tight and when I wiggled them, there was no change in the buzzing. 

If this were some kind of grounding issue, wouldn't I be hearing it all the time, instead of just when I hit a note?

Thanks everyone for the troubleshooting tips... Sounds like everyone is thinking it might be a pickup issue?

Jenzz, how exactly would I check for debris around the magnets? Do I wipe them clean or something?

Hi guys... Need the forum's help here to troubleshoot an issue I'm having with my '74 Mark I stage 88.

Whenever I hit a note anywhere in the middle of the keyboard, I hear an electric buzz.  The buzz doesn't seem to be present when I'm not playing, only when I hit an actual note (especially Mid D up to an octave).  I'm not sure if the problem is over the entire keyboard and I'm only hearing it more in the middle of the keyboard due to the frequencies there (I have a feeling that's the case because if I hit other notes in other octaves very hard, I hear it as well).

Also, the buzz is more pronounced the higher I turn up the treble on my Vintage Vibe preamp.  I've taken off the lid and checked for loose wiring but couldn't find anything.

Anybody have a clue as to what could be going on?  Is it a preamp issue?  Or could it be something with my pickups? I'm baffled as to why I only hear it when playing a note.  Normally, when there's hiss or noise from something (a noisy pedal, grounding issue, etc), you hear it ALL THE TIME.  But not this. 

Any ideas or thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks!

Thanks Dan for the clip.  Your rhodes sounds great.  MUCH quieter than mine.  I wonder how I can self-diagnose the issue?  I know it has to be related to the treble pot because the noise only happens when boosting treble. 

Anyone have the newer version of the Stereo Vibe that was released this year?  According to their website, it has a lower noise floor which might mean their older versions were prone to more noise?

Hi guys.... For any of you using a Vintage Vibe Stereo Vibe preamp with their Rhodes, do you have any noise issues when boosting the treble?  I have an older unit (revision 5) that was put in about 3 years ago.  Love the tremolo and overall volume boost.  But when I boost the treble anywhere above 3 o'clock, I get noise. It can especially be heard when playing in the middle of the keyboard (not sure why. Maybe the frequencies of those notes pick up the noise more?).

I've checked for loose wiring and connections but all seems fine.  Just wondered if I'm alone with this issue.  Thanks!

Hey guys... The hum shield is the bane of my existence.  Setting the height on this thing is so damn finicky.  If it's set too low, then the dampers will hit it.  But if it's too high, then it vibrates against the outer case.

Anyone have any tips on how to set it properly?  Maybe I need some more vibration tape on the shield so it will stop vibrating.  Can anyone recommend any material that will do the trick (preferably something I could pick up at, say, Home Depot)?

Thanks!

Hey guys... While doing some adjustments this weekend, the grounding wire that attaches to the rear screw on the sustaining mechanism (on the back of the piano) snapped off.  I guess I torqued the screw too much and the little eyelet/lug that attaches to the grounding wire broke.

Assuming I need this ground, is there any way to fix this?  Should I solder the lug back onto the grounding wire?  Or simply strip/expose some of the grounding wire and wrap it around the screw?  My knowledge of electronics is limited (other than soldering) but I'd hate to replace the whole thing when only one part of it broke.

Thanks ahead of time!  Always appreciate the site.

So after you unscrew the whole action off, do you lubricate the whips while still attached?  Or do you remove them as well?

For those of you who have performed this time-consuming task, I've read that there is a way to lubricate without necessarily taking the entire piano apart and removing each whip assembly one by one.  I was wondering how that's done.  Do you still need to remove the harp and dampers and remove the entire assembly chassis from the piano? Or is there a way to treat the assemblies while they're still in the piano?

Yes.  Thanks.  I thought it was glue because I had to pry the speaker off the rail - it seemed glued on.  Do I need to use silicone when I install the new speaker do you think?

Hey guys... Anyone know what kind of glue they use on 200s to glue down the speaker to the metal amp rail?  I'm having to replace my speaker and I don't want to use something too strong that I won't be able to remove it later on if need be.  Thanks.

Hey KenRig... I just had the same problem with my 200... New pedal but not all the dampers were lifting... Here's what I did to fix it:

1) Per the Wurlitzer manual, I did tighten the nut as it was sitting too low

2) There must've been rust on the connection rod screw so the pedal wasn't screwing all the way in properly... It would screw in a little and then just stop... I assumed the pedal had hit the nut but in reality, it hadn't which would explain why not all the dampers were lifting...The pedal simply didn't have enough screw to pull down... So I managed to lube the screw and slowly thread the pedal again all the way up to the nut, and then it finally worked... All the dampers raised...

Hope this helps... Regulating the damper screws on top of the stickers didn't work for me so I knew it was a pedal issue.

Hey guys... Just got a new sustain pedal for my 200 and I'm having problems getting it to work.  No matter how tight I screw it into the bottom of the piano, I can't get all of the damper arms to lift high enough to get a good sustain.  Some notes in the middle of the keyboard (C-B) won't even lift at all.

I got a nut driver and turned the nut underneath the piano both all the way in and all the way out but it didn't help much.  Turning it all the way in towards the piano did get some of the arms to lift but not all of them uniformly. To be honest, I'm not even sure which way I should be turning the nut to begin with.  I just tried everything.

I don't think the problem is with the pedal as its a brand new pedal from Vintage Vibe.

Any thoughts troubleshooting this?  What am I doing wrong?  Thanks ahead of time.  Appreciate the site!

Thanks for the reply.  Just for my curiosity, is there a reason why you shouldn't plug a cord into the headphone jack?

Hey all... My 200 sits in my office and there are times when I want to silence the speakers and just play with headphones.  Since the headphone jack on the Wurli is mono, I plan on going through the LINE OUT into a small mixer that has stereo headphones (mixer has onboard FX so that's a plus too).

Question: to mute the onboard speakers on the Wurli, can I simply take a 1/4" cord and plug one end into the headphone jack, leaving the other end disconnected?  I wasn't sure if some resistance was needed for the jack and didn't want to fry anything.

Thanks!

Thanks for the reply, Steve.  I have a 200.

Upon reading your response, I think I'm going to go ahead and leave the lost motion alone.  I already did the let-off (with your wrench in fact!) and that made a huge difference.  I think the reason I wanted to do the lost motion was because since I was already regulating the piano, why not.  And like I said, the hammers were raising at the slightest touch of the keys which I thought indicated my piano needed adjusting.  But it wasn't causing me any problems per se, the piano played fine.  And clearly, when I started messing around with the lower capstans, that only made things worse. 

So I'll abandon the lost motion and leave it to the professionals for now.  The more I restore my piano, the more I learn that it really is an art and that my amateur knowledge can only take me so far.

Hey guys.... I know there's been a lot of posts about this (I've read them all) but I'm still flummoxed about this lost motion business.

I understand there's supposed to be a tiny little gap between the tip of the jack and the whip felt -- and that when I press gently down on a key, the hammer shouldn't go up yet.  The hammer goes up on all of my keys at the gentlest touch so I assumed I needed lost motion.  But after doing my first key (the lowest note), I noticed the actual key dropped in height after coming back up (in other words, it was no longer level with the rest of the keys).  I could level it by gently lifting it back up.  And the key itself now feels loose and wobbly compared to the others.  It's as if the capstan screw was keeping it snug against the felt at the end of the key, and upon turning the capstan, it moved it away from the felt and made it loose.

Is this what's supposed to happen?  The hammer no longer raises at the slightest touch, so I know I've correctly added lost motion, but is that in turn supposed to make the action looser?  Perhaps my action was way too tight to begin with?

Sorry for the long post but hopefully someone can enlighten me.  Thanks!

Thanks, Mike.  Just sent you an email.

Hey guys... Forgive the totally naive question, but what exactly does the vibrato knob control?  I have a Wurlitzer 200 and no matter how much I turn the vibrato dial, I seem to only have two options:  no vibrato or vibrato on.  The knob doesn't seem to control the vibrato depth or vibrato volume.  Just simply on/off.  Is this normal?  I'd blame the amp but I just put in a new Warneck amp and it's exactly the same as it was with the old amp.  Just wondering what I should expect. 

Thanks and Happy New Year!

Hey guys.  I have a 200 I'm bringing back to life and I've hit another snag.  The right speaker has been distorting intermitteningly.  Problem doesn't exist through the headphones or when plugged into an external amp so its most likely a bad speaker right?  But why is it on/off? Some days the distortion is completely gone only to come back again.  I haven't moved it or changed anything so I can't figure out why it's acting up.  Do blown speakers behave that way?  I'd hate to replace the speaker if it's not broken.

If I had another pair of externals I'd test it but I don't.  Question: can I desolder the two speakers and swap them to test?  Any other tests I could do before I just pull the plug and replace?

Thanks!

Got it.  Thanks! 

So the white wire, correct? Thanks.

Should I insulate the other wire with shrink wrap then? It looks very exposed.  Not sure if its supposed to be that way.

Hey guys.  Trying to replace an old noisy amp on my 200.  Can you help identify which of these Aux Output wires is the ground and which is the signal (which is positive and which is negative)?  I've attached a photo.

Thanks.

Wow.  That's a shame because the notes in question (G# and A) are sustaining particularly longer than the others. Oh well, the joys of vintage gear!  Thanks, guys.

Hey guys.  The last few notes on the upper register of my 200 are not dampening and are sustaining too long.  I read a quick fix about turning the damper screw in the back counter clockwise to fix this. 

However, upon closer inspection, the last few notes don't have dampers!  Will turning the screw still work?

Thanks.

2nd that for me too!  You were right Steveo and Jenzz.  Upon closer inspection, the hammer is definitely touching the crossbar (I was looking in the wrong place before!).  The key doesn't dip deeper than the others so I'm thinking the crossbar has to be culprit.

I did what you suggested Steveo and nudged the hammer away from the crossbar and it has worked. Sporadically.  I'm think eventually I'll have to realign the hammer.

Is there an easy way to loosen the hammer mounting screw and align it away from the crossbar WITHOUT have to remove the whole hammer assembly, etc?

Thanks guys.

Thanks Steveo for the reply.  Visually inspecting the hammer in question, it appears there's a big enough gap between the hammer and the crossbar - it doesn't look like it's rubbing against it or anything.  And if I lightly touch the hammer once its stuck in the up position, it immediately falls back down. It's not like its wedged against the crossbar.

Could there be anything else causing this other than the crossbar?  You mentioned something about the key pressing down deeper?

Thanks for the reply, Jenzz.  I'll look to see if the hammer is touching the crossbar.  If it is, how would I go about adjusting the hammer away from the crossbar? Thanks.

Hey guys.  New to the site, hoping you can help with a minor adjustment.

I just picked up a Wurlitzer 200 and noticed that when striking the 2nd lowest G# key, the hammer gets stuck and won't fall down again.  I have to gently tap the hammer for it to fall back down into place.  The actual G# key is fine and isn't sticky.  It's just the hammer that's the problem. And it only happens if I strike the note hard.  When pressing the key softly, the hammer rises and falls as it should.

I read about adjusting the capstan screw with that special wrench but wondered is this a problem with lost motion or letoff?  Each of these has their own screw, correct?  I just wanted to make sure that I adjust the right screw and not mess with something that ain't broken.  Any info would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!