Messages

.

This is great news guys..I think i would have to hold off until a 73 Classic is available as that's the min i can play with for the music i make, but 30 people are going to get a bargain. Glad to hear you're doing a flat top profile too. Excellent guys, keep it coming!

lol!!

Maybe they were simply hand holes for lifting the action rail/support system out of the case...

The Mark V is interesting... Some things are great about it, some things not so. For example, its a bit lighter but it still weighs 100lbs packed. The plastic case can be easily cracked, as can all moulded cases so its not as tough as an older rhodes. Also, Mkv's have the white tape pickups that are more prone to failure (i had to replace 10 dead white taped pickups in my mk2). Then you've got the extra hammer throw which grooves up the tips a lot more quickly than other rhodes. Ive seen several mkv's with DEEP grooves, almost slices in fact. Same goes for the damper felts..they squash up and groove much quicker than on older models, then you have the broken hammer pin issue which i know can be remedied fairly easily but all in all the MKv is a mixed bag..some great points, some not so. Really the only reason they are worth a bit more than say a stage rhodes is due to the low numbers that were made. Still dig 'em though. 

Not live? Really?

Yes! I knew i wasn't going mad! I wonder if Herbie rang up Donald and said, 'hey man, can i borrow your Rhodes please!??? Would love to know how that came about...

ps...I still find it strange that Herbie hardly ever plays Rhodes these days except when guesting with another artist; he has a whole language just on the Rhodes that's very different to his piano style. I would love to hear him do another Rhodes led album. But anyway! I digress back to the Steely Rhodes' and Retronlinear. 

Makes sense that this was 2008 before the reworking.

They sound ammmmmaaaaazzzzzing!! Top job. Can i ask something: i'm sure i saw Herbie Hancock playing 'Grace' in this vid, unless my eyes are deceiving me? check 7:01

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSwhwfwTzqw

Looking for an empty plastic/extrusion mkv case. Please let me know if you have one for sale.
Dan

How much does the piano part weight then?

Yeah I think that's a minimal weight saving there. They use a rubber standoff instead to keep the bars aligned. by the time I've completed this project I might actually have the lightest Rhodes I'm the world!

I've seen a few mk2's with windows cut out of the Alu harp supports. Anyone know if this was standard on some pianos and if so do you think it was for weight saving? An Alu support weighs 2lbs so there's maybe 2lbs to lose off the overall weight only doing this- any ideas?

Here's a couple of pics:

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/vintagevibe/3427358296/
http://m.flickr.com/photos/vintagevibe/3426549753/

Or maybe i should buy a Rhodes just to experiment on...i might just do that! Im speaking to a piano repairer to see if they can assist with the project anyway so theres no way its gonna be anything but high quality.

Ill keep you posted anyway! I dont understand why more people arent thinking about this..Look how much a VV costs. But if someone could come out with a cost effective new case design with a way to mod the inside of any rhodes to save weight too then offer that service that would be a winner of a business model. I mean, im already speaking to SKB to see if they can build a new Rhodes MKv type case but with a production run in mind so that its cost effective...It would have pilot holes drilled in the base to fit any model or era. Its a shame as ive asked VV several times to sell me a modded harp and i said to them i thought it would be a good business if they sold their lightweight harps and modded action rails to install in all rhodes but they said 'it will never happen'. But if theyre not gonna do it theres a business there for someone else. i.e. me! Theres about 250,000 Rhodes across the world and i dare say most players that have them dont gig with them because of the weight, but that could change yet!..i could roll out a mod service transplanting the modded innards into a new light case. You heard it here first .©Goldphinga 2013!!! lol

Great post Max! However! I have to lift the Rhodes on my own as the stairs to my studio are very narrow and only one person can fit at a time. Also the stairwell is too narrow to get a carry cart into. Hence I need to make the piano lighter. My band mates help me on the other side but I can't see why I couldn't do what VV have done to my piano. if I do the work it'll be done properly so not a hack job. Ill cut the wood properly, and get a new Alu harp frame made with new metal supports that run up from the Keybed like vv. the problem is in the UK the vv piano I want (73 with midi) is running at about £7000+ with import and tax. That's just impossible to do so I have no choice but to go down the weight saving route myself as far as I can see. What vv have done isn't rocket science but it just needs thinking about carefully before I apply it to my piano. Any more thoughts please let me know as I need help on this as much as poss. But I am going to go ahead.

Absolutely. So with that in mind...how have VV pulled it off on their pianos? If the tonebars, tines and hammers are the same weight as the old Rhodes then, surely that requires the same amount of wood to keep it all in shape?

You might want to try the regular key pedestal mod with just the right thickness felt and bump size. Then get escapement close ( I am sure you have) in all ranges. That combined with the right action rail location makes for a great '72. It might take several tries but it can be made to be the best action. If done right, the key bounce is minimized and the key dip feels just right. You can feel it when the key/cam cradle is on lock and sliding well. When you hit the spot, then you can get any '72 to feel the same way. It stays with you.
Mod dampers are a must for those early Rhodes when you play that hard and fast.
Overall it sounds a little clicky but I guess that's the room sound. When you play like that tips get hard fast. Nice chops by the way.

That's the direct sound of the Rhodes from the harp straight into my computer bypassing the Peterson preamp and cab. It does sound a little clicky but yeah the room and camera mix play a part too. But it sounds smooth as butter running through the cab which rounds off the highs nicely but the harder midrange tips still give me the attack I like. I find the standard Rhodes tip config too soft for me. I don't actually play very hard - it's more like a firm punch using my fingertips I suppose rather than slamming the hell out of the Rhodes with my full body weight or arms. You have to learn how to massage those tines as you play- reach into them instead of hitting them. David- where do you recommend I get the materials from for the pedestal mod? By the way this Rhodes is date stamped 2572. thanks for the props guys.

Put an effects loop in, it's easy. That is if you play with a wah, phaser etc. I would love to hear that Rhodes with a crybaby classic.

Is there a way to do that so that it looks standard? Perhaps
I could find a face plate with the accessory sockets holes. Man I love this Rhodes!
The only downside is its hard to play, the action feels a little tense- not sluggish just takes a fair whack to accelerate! Maybe I should do the miracle mod-

Ps okdk thanks for the nice comment

This is my 1972 suitcase 73 with no accessory jacks...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=162858115128&set=vb.139239415631&type=3&theater

Spray the key pedestals outside of the piano. Install them and then lube the pins. Let the lube slide down the pins into the felt. It's also more important to lube the guide pins than the balance pins. I would just do the pedestal felts myself. You must use the right lube. You know what type by now.

When you say "key pedestals outside the piano" are you referring to the felts?  I'm not entirely new to Rhodes' but I've never done anything like this, so the short-hand is mostly lost on me.  Thanks!

Remove all the keys from the piano then spray the felt on the back of each key. Then put them back in the piano.

Just to add. For anyone wanting to know about the exact way Herbie's Rhodes was recorded, i spoke to David Rubinson who was Herbie's producer on all those classic albums such as Headhunters, Thrust, Manchild, Sunlight, Mister Hands, etc and all those records were the Rhodes>d.i outs from the suitcase cab>tube limiters...

no cabinet miking.

there you go.

yeah speak to Marcel, at ep service. He'll sort you out man. Dan

I know that they do, the problem is though that by the time I buy the new top and have it shipped that I will have as much in the lid as I do in the entire piano 

Im trying to avoid buying a new one lol.

Sometimes you get a bargain piano but you just have to stump up for the part you need especially when what you need is rare and very hard to get hold of. You'll likely have an even longer wait finding a second hand one but then I could be wrong but still when they do come up they aren't usually any cheaper than the VV ones anyway.

Bump!!!!

Anyone know if cutting away wood on the harp has any effect on the sound? I presume not as VV have done it on their piano to no ill effect.

Any thoughts on this?

Vintage vibe sell new reproductions afaik

Count me in David.

Does anybody ever adjust the length of their front legs? I've never seen that done in real life, only in Rhodes promotional material.

I used to extend the front legs on my MK2 when playing standing. Worked great.

----

So my bet is its still in Herbie's collection though this was almost 30 years ago now!!

Check this out...

1min 6 secs is the 1st glimpse...then at 1:27 another nice shot.
Its not a 73 and its not a standard MKV as the Rhodes badge is to the right like the Dynamic 88
in google image search...

http://www.piano-rhodes.com/objets/namm%20keyboards%2084.20049122352.jpg

The link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhWZ-FOrgP4

Looks like the MKV88? ie the Dynamic 88!!
Sitting on top of the Rhodes is a Fairlight CMI IIX which has a 73 note keyboard
but huge end panels either side that would make it longer than a MKV73
just for reference...it would be about the same length as a Rhodes 88...

So was Herbie testing the prototype?? Mike Peterson said it was a one off
so this must have been it and maybe Herbie still has it?
Thoughts?

Only Mike Peterson could know this...and Steve Woodyard!

Mike, you there?

But yes, it looks like the design on the supersite....

So maybe the piano is about...whats the source of this pic?

Neoprene tps? Crazy.  Could'a swore that in a different photo, I saw felt tips.   Then again, by 72, that's what Fender was using.
The tips look in great shape.  Very little gap, or crystallization. you may still want to take a razor blade to them to get to soft rubber.

Perhaps you can flip the harp, and get some tight photos of the actual tines and tone blocks.
That would put all the Raymac v. Torrington stuff to bed.

Ray

Thats on the previous page...someone else with a similar piano but with square felt tips...

yeah i saw those brackets...i reckon they are there to stop any further movement of the tonebar and pickup rails caused by the excessive vol vibration from sitting on that loud amp...thoughts?

PS Maybe it is raymacs..but could also be torringtons with felt hammers....thats something we dont hear that often..correct?

But I thought we'd just established that ray macs only went up to mid '71?
To me they sound like the torringtons on my may '72. uncannily so.

On a '72?

Yep I've not heard raymacs with the kind of sustain the e demonstrates. The torringtons have crazy long sustain, especially with new grommets!

Fantastic insight in your video thanks got all the detailed info. Man! It sounds amazing. VERY similar tone to my may '72 suitcase- definitely the same tines!! Can tell them a mile off.

Bump!

Nobody else considering making their Rhodes lighter?

Great job and sweet sounding piano.

Yeah Toms rocking it! Ps I setup his piano- it's a beauty

I had an 80mk2 with Janus front panel and stereo breakout box (now owned by a close friend) that was killer. Kinda regret selling it but there you go! At least I know where it is!

For UK folks - I bought 3-in-1 Silicone Lubricant, you can get it on ebay or pretty much anywhere.  It's a light silicone lube, 'food safe', spray, comes with a straw for accuracy.   3-in-1 are a pretty well-known brand here.

Yep I can second that. But i also use Maplin Electronics Silicobe grease spray. Works great. 

Nope it's gone now. I've not tried VV tines yet but what do you feel is lacking in the repro tines? For me the tines in my may '72 are the best. Hifi highs wide mids and round lows. David, do you think this is to do to the different fit of the tine into the block in part?

Also how much of a bearing do the wooden hammers/wooden support blocks affect tone?
Can it really be said that the metal framed/all plastic hammer models sound worse and that the wooden framed/block/hammer models sound better?

Different but not better/worse perhaps?
Also I think dampers have a huge bearing on tone. And there seem to be a lot of variations there- all sorts of different metals with different tensions, different shapes, different felt heights and shapes too.

Mine weighs 60lbs without the cover so I would say about 80lbs with lid and then boxed up. I'll try measure it up later.

-----

Real MC has a good point. There's a famous story when Harold Rhodes went to visit a famous Rhodes player at his studio (think it might have been Herbie Hancock) and he couldn't believe how clanky the Rhodes sounded due to harder hammer tips. But the player said that once the Rhodes had been eq'd that it sounded great. Harder tips improve definition and allow you to have both a smooth softer tone but with clear attack transients at the same time.

VV do appear to have some new tips. They are a slightly harder version of the yellows-


Look at this on eBay:

Fender Rhodes Piano Extra Firm "Yellow" Hammer Tips pack of 500

http://bit.ly/1bCGFb0

Action rail or balance rail?   
[/quote

Action rail right at the point of note #56 to around note #61. A slight dip in the frame directly under the metal action rail.

You were probably imagining things -:) unless you are confusing the balanced rail and action rail.

Nope not imagining it. Erm- it's lets say not a mk1 or 2 as it has a totally different case and keybed.

Action rail or balance rail?   
[/quote

Action rail right at the point of note #56 to around note #61. A slight dip in the frame directly under the metal action rail.

Bump!

Ok, im getting somewhere..it seems that there was a slight bend in the keybed frame under the action rail causing a smaller gap between the wood frame around the notes 56 to 61 than along the rest of the frame. I wedged an old credit card between the frame and base to open up the gap to the same as the rest of the piano and now it seems to be a lot better...unless im imagining it but i dont think i am! This could be the cause then! Anyone else run into this and solved it by shimming? I think i saw VV do this to one of Donald Fagens Rhodes that exhibited a similar issue come to think of it!

Ill post some audio when i get a mo. Ps, the weakness in sound is through all devices...amp, speakers, phones...