Messages

The passive Rhodes tone controls are nasty. Muddy, and destroy the beautiful tone. Go direct from the harp rca.

I dont normally hold the hammers, just the pressure from moving the knife towards the front edge/lip holds the hammer in position, then i just hold the old piece of floorboard in my left hand and scrape away gently- i often make a couple of cuts downwards right on the edge of the front lip to free any material there then scrape from back to front with the blade lying flat. I also have chainmail gloves that I use too to avoid any cuts to my hand/fingers. Never had any problems taking off the front lip by accident, except when i once used a dremel tool, will never do that again. Much prefer to use a simple blade. Then I run my finger over the hammer surface to make sure its smooth once this is all done, if any bits remain i scrape again or use some light grade sandpaper.

I get great results with just a stanley blade, simply scraping the residue of glue or rubber off. I put a plank of wood in front of the hammers to scrape onto so I dont chop my hands off. 

Every piano I've installed the mod in has only benefitted from the mod in terms of playability and dynamics providing the piano is set up correctly afterwards. Placement is all important!

all the best with the new venture!

So apparently the E Rhodes was used on a lot of these recordings- this could well be the E Rhodes. Ive said it once and Ill say it again, its uncanny how much like my 1972 suitcase this Rhodes sounds!!

Well, this was direct from David Rubinson in a conversation I had with him (who was the producer and actually there on the sessions) so this is the gospel! He and Fred Catero used 2 x RCA tube limiters on the Rhodes suitcase amp direct outs and the Rhodes was setup for very percussive attack and non-linear transient distortion. So yes an amp was involved but it was the Rhodes suitcase amp although Herbie had the speakers uprated to JBL's. The amp and Rhodes was stock as confirmed by Steve Woodyard some years ago. Just to underline this all facts, not supposition!!

My '72 suitcase sounds very much like the E Rhodes- its got some magic, everyone that hears it seems to agree!

There was a period of Rhodes that for a short time had golden coloured time blocks. I've seen a few in my workshop.

This might help- http://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/double-striking.html

Only listened on the laptop speakers but it just sounds like 'damper kiss' which is kinda normal. Other things to check include:

loose pickup vibrating (check all pickups are tight)
tine slightly touching the end of the pickup
some rogue solder bits attached to the end of a pickup
the damper bouncing or not dampening quickly enough
the tine not filed flat causing unwanted overtones
worn or hardened damper felt
grooved hammer tip

Any other suggestions?

you need this but in reverse! http://www.vintagevibe.com/collections/fender-rhodes-parts-electronics/products/fender-rhodes-matchmaker?variant=899486215

Thanks David! Really appreciate it! Was a total surprise to me but very humbled by the news 

You'll probably not be surprised to hear there's tonnes of Rhodes all over the album, a few solos and loads of bed tracks. MK1 73 suitcase from 1972.

Cheers for the support.

I'm not one to plug my own stuff too much but may as well now im here!
www.itunes.com/jd73
http://www.splashmusicproductions.com/#!product-page/c10ql/cbb0dbe3-c593-53a8-188b-a4bec464e84a

I've extensively used all the preamps. To my ears the pre's i like the most are the Peterson design I have on my 1972 suitcase and the low noise late mk2 preamp I have installed as a retrofit on my 1980 MK2. I also have an original black face slider preamp that was in my 1980 rhodes as part of a janus speaker system but it has a couple of mods on that have messed with the tone that im going to get reversed. Those pre's sound good too.

They all sound great in their own right and each preamp goes perfectly with each era of piano to my ears. My biggest surprise was how beautiful that late mk2 preamp is, it has the peterson mojo, real high quality and even quieter too with much nicer eq- actually i'd say this is my fave. Think they're quite rare and often overlooked. Only thing is i wished the trem went a bit faster but it sounds dope.

Maybe add a couple of strips of very thin felt to the underside of the harp or onto the top of the release bar.

Next restoration I've been given is a 1974/75 ish 88 Key Mark 1. I've yet to date it as the stamp has disappeared off the harp but as I take it apart I'll find it.

Some one had modified it for gigs with all this additional metal framework, I'll be returning it back to it's former glory.

Now I did something similar to mine, except I ditched the old ply case completely, built a new one from common flightcase materials and saved almost 30lbs.

Yep- this is what i do, works a treat with no desoldering.

Hey there. When you say the mount do you mean  the faceplate or the rail? Any pics for reference? Cheers

Im not sure about the sound. I watched the VV demo and it didnt sound as smooth as the bulb vib. Recently i replaced the bulbs on mine and it sounds killer!

Aha!! Sexy!

Looks stunning. Probably the nicest I've seen. Great job!
Sound wise, to my ears sounds like the escapement is set too narrow hence the plunk on the attacks, could be strike line though or the dampers aren't pulling away enough. Unless it's felt tips?

Hey thanks man! Sorry i should have been clearer- i have one of these preamps already just wanted to find out more about who designed it and what made it tick. 

Hey, i replied to your thread on facebook. You ideally need to connect the rhodes to something that puts out as flat a frequency response as possible, ie some decent studio monitors. This way any problem areas will be highlighted. The only other way is to voice the rhodes through the amp you usually use ie you voice the rhodes to the amp. However if you do this when you record the rhodes direct through your interface it will sound completely different and probably uneven- if your amp has loads of midrange you'll voice your rhodes to compensate and back of the mids using the pickup placement/tine angle so when playing through a flat response speaker all the mids will sound scooped.

To sum up, try voice it through whatever you are going to play it through most of the time or voice it through your amp then a flatter source and then shoot for the middle ground where it sounds good on both.

PS yes i do it by ear, you can check with meters if you like but I think by ear is best.

That was a great read. Never heard of this before, but i have experience some later pianos that sounded like trash. The 80's ones have great tone in general. Nice find!

It appears the MK2 preamp was modded in addition to the vibrato switch. 
Those caps in the front end and the resistor underneath are not from the factory.  They did not use components that looked like that.  You can also see that the soldering on those components is not factory (i.e. wave soldered).
I would expect that those mods on the front end are what is creating the differences in gain and frequency response. 
The apparent board rev has nothing to do with it.

If you put your Mk2 back the way the factory intended you will get the same sound as the Mk1 rail.

Best regards,
Tim
retrolinear.com

Hey Tim, so remove the resistor underneath, replace C19 and which others? Many thanks for your help!

New link: http://imgur.com/a/Mdo8f

The mark 1 is def a rev a preamp and the mk2 is marked rev d. So Rhodes def changed the components as you can see on closer inspection when zooming in. Question is which components are responsible for the lower overall output and general weaker mids/tone on the mk2 (rev D) pre...Maybe this change is one of the reasons why Mk2' suitcases are often said to have a more sparkly less ballsy tone. This mk2 rev D one here is all sparkly tops and round lows with massively scooped mids. 

So just been servicing a late (1979) mk1 and I have a 1980 mk2. Both have the haigler preamps in. Intriguingly, on the same piano when swapping the rails, the sound is very different. The late mk1 pre has considerably more gain, warmer/fuller midrange and general depth, whilst the mk2 has less overall gain and sounds much more scooped in the mids.

Now- i did have my mk2 preamp modded but just the switch and the vibrato intensity pot were changed to stop the trem bleeding into the audio path, i don't see how this would have such a radical bearing on the sonics if at all?

You can see that the mk2 pre has some different components ( the mk2 is the one with the orange caps in and the mk1 has blue)

Thoughts?

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNl4FQgJudQKjy8K1-UdDvbaLAUdCRsGgBQLAQb

Make up a jumper wire with wire and aligator clips. Start at the bottom and jump pickups out of the circuit until you find the culprits.

So how much bearing on sustain/tone does the amount of wood have on the tone of a Rhodes? For example the wood in the harp, keybed, the older wooden hammers, older wooden support blocks? Some say the wooden hammers/support blocks make for a better sound though I've heard and worked on some pretty incredible sounding metal frame Rhodes'.

SO-The rhodes tine/tonebar combo is essentially de-coupled from the wood, but does it have any bearing on the sound and quality of tone/sustain? If you were to remove all the wood from the harp for example, and mount all the tines and pickups in carbon fibre, would the tone radically alter? That's the kinda thing I want to discuss...

Thoughts please!

Looks great!! How does it sound and play? Looks like you need to do some key levelling there (sorry dont mean to be picky but couldnt help noticing)

Can anyone shed any light on these later preamps installed in the later MK2's? Is it the same circuitry/preamp as the Haigler preamp with eq sliders?

Thanks

So i have a 1978 FR7710 cab without the matching piano top and i've been running stereo synths into the power amp input. However, i want to be able to then get that signal out of the cab at line level. The pre amp outs don't allow this- is there a way to mod the circuit to get a feed out of the cab to send to an audio interface for recording. I know you cant use the headphone out due to the wrong impedance i think? Also theres no way to make a lead to run into the 5 pin preamp in socket?

Thoughts?

cheers
d

EDIT- my tech has found a solution

amazing!! cant wait to see the finished article and hear some clips too! did you get the front rail chrome plated?

Aha! The thread rises again. Well, I had my mk2 rehoused in a lighter flightcase, knocked the weight down to 102 lbs, much more manageable and its fully touring ready- so couple of pounds more than a mkv currently but thats with a Janus front rail installed with the heavier rail/preamp and the case is much more sturdy than a mkv. With a normal rail it weighs 99lbs fully cased. Im planning on modding the innards next and once thats done (cutting down the damper rail, the harp wood and making new harp frame sides the weight will hit about 90lbs fully flightcased.

Yep. Unfortunately the rust has eaten the tines away. There's no way they will ever sound good or a their best. The pitting is so severe that the oscillation of the tines is bound to be affected as well as sustain and clarity. I think you're honestly best selling the good parts from the piano and not wasting any more time on this one. It's going to end up being totally uneconomical to repair- ie a set of new tines is going to be way more than the piano is worth. Sorry. 

I've also seen Mk2's with red pickups and slightly different front faceplate writing, from '79.

The story goes that Harold Rhodes visited the Rhodes factory in Mexico and he was shocked to discover that the drill press being used was standing on an uneven dirt floor amongst other things, hence issues with the placement of tonebar holes on some Rhodes....

Its all here on Mike Peterson's site: http://loudroundrecords.com/RhodesPiano.htm

Either that or they installed tines and couldn't be bothered cutting them down and so pushed the pickups back beyond their normal position in order to accommodate the extra tine length!!

Could you upload a sound clip of the offending notes?

My Rhodes has got an optical midi system in made by staedler electro. It has poly aftertouch too. Not used the midi9 pnoscan system but heard it's good. Strange that vv will still fit it but don't offer it as an option. A Rhodes

Hey man, if you can post some pics so we can see the date stamp (top right with the lid off) the forum will be able to point you in the right direction. Im presuming its going to be pre 75, but all can be sorted, don't worry. Please supply us with as much in the way of pics and if you can some audio/video and we'll be able to help.

crisps and gig snacks.

theres a few on my channel you might like... can I even say that? youtube.com/goldphinga

definitely not stock, custom mod

yes indeed!! 

I keep seeing faces in the speaker cover!??

Vv cut a section out- there's a video on YouTube

Great info guys- but can this explain the low readings on my last 6 pickups? Any ideas whats causing the gradual drop in volume? Do you think i should just replace the low reading pickups?

Cheers!

I should go into more detail...

Basically all the pickups are passing audio in the piano, but from pickup 14 down to pickup 8 (the first 6 pickups on the piano) the volume output gradually decreases. They are all set close to the tines like the other pickups.

All the pickups on the piano read 62.5 from the top note down to pickup 14, then from 14 down to 8 they all read 27.5 (these are all the ones where the volume is getting lower and lower).

So I'm thinking either all 6 must be bad or one is knocking them all out perhaps?

Any ideas gratefully received! I'm normally good with this sort of thing but its stumped me currently!

I knew you'd know David! Many thanks, just checked my piano now and they read 62.5 each. Seems I have some bad ones reading only 27.5 from notes 8-14. White tape if course!