Messages

1

Buying / Re: Looking for Rhodes Bass Pre-Cbs!

« on: February 18, 2021, 08:32:13 PM »

Pre-CBS means pre-1965.  Hmmm...  Before goldtop before sparkletop...  I cannot imagine how rare this piano bass would be.



From https://www.fenderrhodes.com/pianos/early.html

Did you recently win the lottery?

Sean

2

Buying / Re: Looking for Rhodes Bass Pre-Cbs!

« on: February 18, 2021, 08:25:46 PM »

...crickets...

3

Other Keyboards & Software Synths / Re: Homemade electric piano

« on: February 15, 2021, 10:00:41 PM »

Fantastique!
Merveilleux!
Putain de cool!


I like it.

Sean

4

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer picking up radio stations

« on: February 13, 2021, 09:36:54 PM »

The smaller the holes, the more effective.   I mean that the minimum frequency that can penetrate the holes is related to hole size.
Smaller holes provide better sheilding - more low RF gets blocked.  If you want to block very high frequency EM waves, you need tiny holes.


Chicken wire vs. Aluminum foil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M6h1U9jgWs

Ungrounded Chicken wire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfC88nzqDWc

and a better discussion:
https://hackaday.com/2018/09/26/building-a-hardware-store-faraday-cage/

Sean

5

Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Re: DIY £20 Wurlitzer Pedal

« on: February 13, 2021, 09:06:26 PM »

This is fabulous!  ...and abnormally cool.

Is the PLA pedal lever really stiff enough?  Wow.

Excellent idea.  Excellently executed.


I have always thought that the Wurly pedal sits up too high.  Could you re-do the drawings to get the lever an inch lower?  I mean just delete the bottom inch of the green housing.  Green?  Why Green?

Awesome.

Sean

6

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer picking up radio stations

« on: February 13, 2021, 08:59:49 PM »

Build a small Faraday cage with chicken wire.

No.  I am being serious.

Basically build a small hut with a wood frame; cover it with chicken wire for walls, floor, and ceiling.  Yes, you need a door.  Ground the chicken wire, and you should be radio isolated.  I have worked inside one for audio diagnostic and repair work, and it works.

If it works, then tear down the drywall, put up chicken wire, and re-hang the wallboard.   Ha.  Not serious about that part.

Sean

7

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Power down when vibrato switched on

« on: February 08, 2021, 01:20:45 AM »

Will,

Why don't you replace the op amp in the oscillator?

Sean

8

Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Re: Tolex question

« on: January 28, 2021, 09:16:14 AM »

Glue sticks to paint.

If you feel like painting the inside and outside, I think you will be fine.

9

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Backrail felt: how thick can you go?

« on: January 24, 2021, 04:46:27 PM »

There are two ways I think that thick backrail felt could be done:

Carve a groove in the case for the felt with a router.  (For the plastic-key Rhodes that don't have a keybed.)

or

Install the thick felt, and sand down the back end of the keysticks to compensate.


I have had the courage to test neither.

Sean

10

Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Re: Assessing My 1974 Mk 1 Action.

« on: January 22, 2021, 02:09:05 AM »

Owen,

It is possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSxBewUDDPw

Sean

11

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Mark 2 difficulties

« on: January 19, 2021, 01:15:57 PM »

First, slow down, breathe... take a pause, relax.  (although not in all caps, you sound out of breath)
You have come to the right place.  If we can't help you, there are Rhodes techs in LA that will chime in.

I assume you have a seventy-three key Mark II stage piano.  Is this correct?  It looks like this:
or

The stage piano does not have a power supply or amplifier beneath it.  Just a piano top on four legs.  The Stage Piano will have only one 1/4" jack on the face panel... oh, I forgot the obvious... It will have the words "Stage Piano" on the name rail.  Ha.

[If your piano has a built-in preamp, then you have either a Rhodes Janus Piano (missing the amp), or you have a Suitcase model Rhodes (also missing the amplifier base).  These two model pianos require a power supply for the internal preamp.]

I will assume you have a STAGE PIANO.

In a perfect world, if you plug a guitar cable from the output of the Rhodes (deceptively marked "Input") to the input of your guitar amp, you will get music.  If you don't, there are a few things that could be wrong, but it is almost always this: some of the pickups in the piano are dead.  If there are three dead pickups in a row (a whole group-of-three is dead), you get no output from the Rhodes.

(There are other things that could be wrong too:  maybe the RCA jack is corroded, maybe the cable from the RCA jack is unplugged or defective, maybe the controls on the name rail are defective, or maybe the 1/4" jack is screwed up, or maybe a ground wire is broken, or ....)

The method of finding all the dead pickups is reasonably well-discussed here: 
           https://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=10307.msg57408#msg57408
           (This post has links to other similar posts at the bottom.)

Take a good look around inside your Rhodes, and send us some pictures if you can.

Of course, you should read the service manual a bunch of times:  https://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/manual.html
See also the technotes at:  https://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/technotes.html

Sean


By the way, I completely disagree with your assertion that you have search all over the internet.   :-)

12

Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Re: impossible escapement

« on: January 18, 2021, 07:58:48 PM »

Oh, by the way, read the service manual a bunch of times:  https://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/manual.html

See also the technotes at:  https://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/technotes.html

Sean

13

Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Re: impossible escapement

« on: January 18, 2021, 07:56:22 PM »

Do you see those two flanges that stick out from the aluminum harp support to create a slot?  The screw to hold the back end of the harp support goes in there.

A #8-32 screw will fit loosely, and a #10-32 screw will be very snug.  I think you want a self-tapping #10-32 screw about 1/2" long.  If the screw bottoms out in the slot, add washers under the head of the screw.

See photo below.

Sean 

14

Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Re: Restoring 1972 Fender Rhodes Mk1 Stage, need help with key replacement

« on: January 17, 2021, 08:13:49 PM »

Do not modify the balance rail pins in any way.

If you are lucky, you may be able to find a key from a higher octave that will work.

If that is absolutely impossible, you could modify the key by sawing a notch in the bottom of the key to remove the existing hole.  Fill that with nice dry basswood or other white wood.  Drill a new hole after the glue dries.

See the attached drawing.

Sean

15

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Dampers and Reed Bar Ringing Noise... FIXED! Whoohoo!

« on: January 15, 2021, 12:49:59 AM »

. Awesome.  Congratulations!   ...aaaand that's how they get ya!

Now your respect for the instrument has turned into affection....

That is the one that you will never sell.

Sean

16

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: New (to me) 140A questions

« on: January 08, 2021, 11:20:00 AM »

Take the knobs off!!

17

Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Re: impossible escapement

« on: January 06, 2021, 04:54:36 PM »

Are there wood shims on the top of the harp support on the left side?  You can lower the harp by removing shims.

Are your new hammertips a different size than the original hammer tips?

Did you remove a ton of felt or paper punchings from the balance rail when you played with the keylevel and keydip?

Is your key dip too small?


I hope that you have the thick factory-installed shim on top of the harp supports.  If it is glued on, try heating the glue to get it to release cleaner.

Is this a stage piano with wooden keys or with plastic keys?

Sean

18

Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Re: Mk2 Plastic Balance Rail Replacement... thoughts?

« on: December 24, 2020, 03:24:02 PM »

I think the worst part of the clacking sound is the hammer itself bouncing.  Plus, the key does thump a few times on the back felt.

I get no impression that any of the clacking sound is from the contact surfaces of the keypins.

Sean

19

Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Re: Mk2 Plastic Balance Rail Replacement... thoughts?

« on: December 23, 2020, 12:33:31 AM »

I am proud to be the first one to tell you that this is a ridiculously dumb idea!  However, don't let that stop you.

First of all, I am upset about the premise that the plastic balance rail is "a problem" or even "the problem" with the plastic-keyed Rhodes pianos circa 1982-1983.  I have seen a few rare complaints about the plastic pins breaking when abused, but I have never seen what I would think was "hatred" specifically aimed at the balance rail.

For the record, the balance rail in my plastic-key Rhodes is just fine.

Changing the balance rail to aluminum may solve the rare issue of broken balance rail pins, but at what cost?  I wouldn't pay more than the cost of a plastic balance rail section to replace a broken pin.  Twelve bucks:  https://www.vintagevibe.com/products/rhodes-mark-ii-plastic-key-pins  OUCH!  The front rail sections are expensive!!

How will you polish the aluminum balance rail pins so they are as friction-free as the ABS originals?  That would be a costly pain.


If you want to advance the state-of-the-art in plastic-key Rhodes action, please figure out an elegant solution to the insane key bounce!  The plastic-key Rhodes action is impressively loud and bouncy.  I have always wanted to rout a trough in the piano case bottom under the back end of the keysticks (under the felt strip), and fill it with damping gel (like the stuff VV sells for Clavinet string damping), then put a layer of felt over that.  I realize that a lot of testing would be required to arrive at the best way to stop the keys from bouncing, and it would take more effort and money than my plastic-key Rhodes is worth.

However, I have not a leg to stand on when it comes to criticizing passionate projects of moderate lunacy - I am fool enough to follow my own goofball ideas.

If this is a project that captures your imagination and grabs your heart, then by all means proceed!  But don't be embarrassed to quit when you get halfway down the road and have run out of steam.  Turn off into the woods and start a new project.  At least you will have learned valuable skills in drawing, 3D modelling, and machine tooling.

Sean

20

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Plastic Key Rhodes... MOVE THE BALANCE RAIL FORWARD!

« on: December 21, 2020, 10:48:10 PM »

Did I forget to interject my advice for all plastic-key Rhodes? 

Move the balance rail to the forward position!


Sean

21

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: MkII Plastic Balance Rail Punchings

« on: December 21, 2020, 10:41:53 PM »

Oops.  Sorry.  My plastic key Rhodes has the outer case lid on it, and junk piled on top.  Not gonna dig it out today.

Sean

22

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: MkII Plastic Balance Rail Punchings

« on: December 21, 2020, 10:34:41 PM »

www.vandaking.com will sell to the great unwashed, but why would any piano supplier have paper punchings with the huge hole in them?  Some front rail punchings are larger than balance rail punchings, but are they big enough?

And it should be obvious to all that there are lots of piano repair parts available on Amazon.

I would be surprised if the plastic-key Rhodes requires a lot of balance rail punchings.  I don't think there are any in mine.   I think it just has felts.


Lemme go look....

Sean

23

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Mute rail (buff stop) for Rhodes

« on: December 21, 2020, 10:23:02 PM »

Once again, you amaze us. 

That is very cool.  Do you want to actuate it with a knee lever, or a foot pedal? 

Sean

24

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: New Owner: Basic Questions

« on: December 21, 2020, 10:17:17 PM »

Juan,

If you put the leg braces on the back legs BEFORE you stand the piano up, you will have an easier time fitting them correctly.  The knob is supposed to screw all the way in to the bottom of the piano and keep the braces snug and tight. 

Maybe your piano was owned by a player with a punishing left hand (e.g. Rod Laver), and the action was adjusted accordingly.

To make the left hand play just as loud as the right hand, there are two things you want to look at:  1. Escapement, and 2. Pickup position
1.  Escapement is how much slop is in the action - not really - Escapement is the distance from the top of the hammer tip to the bottom of the tine when the key is depressed and the hammer is in the stop-lock position.  See chapter 4 of the service manual at https://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/ch4.html
In the low notes on the Rhodes, the escapement can be 3/8" or even 1/2" and still play comfortably.  Just note that the escapement on the left side of the harp has to be larger than the escapement on the right end of the harp.  If your escapement is not too out of whack, then you can adjust the volume of each note by correctly positioning the pickups.

2.  Pickup position is also discussed in chapter four at https://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/ch4.html#4-7 
Basically, just slide the pickup closer to the tine, and that note will be louder.  Get all the notes set so that each note is the same volume for a reasonable poke at the key; and then play for a while, if any note stands out as too loud or too soft, adjust the pickup again.

While you are playing with the pickups, you might also want to perfect the intonation of each note.  See chapter 4 and also the technote at https://www.fenderrhodes.com/service/tine-settings.html  You will notice that if you change the setting of the escapement and timbre screws, you might change the escapement for that note considerably.  Then you will understand the delicate dance of adjusting your Rhodes. 


The upper dozen notes on the Rhodes have hammer tips that are a piece of hard maple wrapped in shrink tubing.  The maple is hard, and makes an impressive whack when struck with authority.  The tines are so short in this region that they need a percussive whack to make them ring.  That is indeed part of the instrument's nature.

Read through the service manual a few times (https://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/toc.html), and see all the videos that Chris and Fred from Vintage Vibe have posted on youtube. 

Sean

25

For Sale / Re: Picked up a Fender Rhodes 88 Suitcase Piano at an auction

« on: November 17, 2020, 11:43:48 PM »

You have the top half from an 88-key 1978 Rhodes Mark I Suitcase piano.  See the photo at the bottom right of https://www.fenderrhodes.com/pianos/mark1b.html.

My five-photo appraisal is $300. 

If I knew more, I might be better-equipped to give a real value estimate.  Like... do all the keys work?  Are there missing or broken tines?  Are there mice living in it?  Were there?  Do all of the pickups work?  Any signs of water damage?  Is there more tolex damage on the bottom of the piano or other areas we cannot see?  Is there a reason that you photographed the piano with the top lid flopped over the name rail?  (It should fit behind the namerail, like in the photo mentioned above.  Insert the front behind the namerail, and then drop the back corners into place.)

Does the preamp work?  Are the pots scratchy?  (The preamp needs a power supply to bring it to life.  A pair of 9V (or a boatload of AA) batteries will be adequate for testing, but a + and - 15VDC supply is what the preamp is designed to have.  See my moronical quest to build a power supply for my Janus preamp,)

In what part of the world are you trying to sell this top half of a Suitcase 88 Rhodes piano?  If you are selling in Australia, you will get top dollar, because there are Tusken Raiders crawling from Perth to Brisbane searching for Rhodes pianos.  If you are selling in a major US city, you should be able to find a local buyer within a few weeks.

Maybe a fairer initial appraisal would be $500 - $200 for the preamp, and $300 for the piano top.
If you bring it into fairly functional condition, you might hope to get $1000 or more for it.  If it were in fantastically beautiful condition, obviously more.

By the way, you should not sell it.  You should keep it in the family.  Find a nephew or niece who plays and is handy with a screwdriver.

Take a closer look at it, and tell us what you find.

Sean

26

Preamps, Modifications & Upgrades / Re: Recreation of the suitcase preamp (schematic and layout attached)

« on: November 15, 2020, 11:15:34 PM »

One more thought...  you aren't using the NE5534 are you?  I doubt you really need the external compensation and input balance.

A single NE5532AP would be just fine - one op amp for the input gain, one op amp for the baxandall EQ.

Sean

27

Preamps, Modifications & Upgrades / Re: Recreation of the suitcase preamp (schematic and layout attached)

« on: November 15, 2020, 10:14:44 PM »

Patrick,

The gain control in that schematic is amusing.  Why design it like that?  The left side of the R23 potentiometer (the part between the wiper and the full clockwise position) is in the feedback voltage divider.  The right side of the R23 potentiometer creates a voltage divider with R25 that slightly diminishes the output signal that gets fed to C8 and the EQ section.   I would not re-implement this design; I don't see the benefit... well, since the wiper of R23 is tied to ground, you will never get much scratchy pot noise.  That would be important in a very high gain circuit.  Okay, fine, that's enough justification to build it this way.

I don't see the need to have gain skyrocket to 101, but I don't ever remember turning the volume on the preamp up past 12 o'clock.  The 12 o'clock position on the pot is probably only about 10% of the way through the full resistance of the pot (see charts like https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-00-08-64/3348.Slide_2D00_0002.JPG).  The gain at this pot position would only be 5.43, and then the R25/R23 voltage divider removes 46.6% of that.

So, I commonly run this preamp with pretty low gain setting, and it seems to work very well like that.

If you want to raise the value of R13, you certainly won't cause any circuit problem; however, you will certainly decrease the maximum gain, and you might affect the intuitive smooth feeling of volume increase as you turn the knob.  It shouldn't be too hard to model in any of the spice-based simulators (maybe I will stop and do this someday).

I am surprised that a full-range maximum setting of gain of eleven causes any clipping.  If the input from the Rhodes harp is 600mV peak-to-peak, and +300mV peak at full gain would only be 3.3V.  The op amp shouldn't be clipping at all.

I verified that my 5-knob Janus preamp is indeed connected as shown in the schematic - except the schematic calls out a reverse audio taper for R23.  The pot installed in my preamp is a regular audio taper pot, and the clockwise rotation matches that shown on the schematic.

Hmmm... I don't know if I helped you at all, but I agree with your assessment.

Sean

28

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Restoring '82 MkII Suitcase

« on: November 10, 2020, 07:44:48 PM »

Yeaaahhh, the cheekblocks look great.  Excellent stain color.

On those lowest notes, the tines are very long, so their swing can sometimes collide with the tonebar!  But that should be rare, like you only do it once a night when you get carried away.

If you can hear that the heavy and long tonebar assembly is a little looser than you want... there is a very common solution:  stronger springs, or double up on the springs.

VV sells a super-duper beefy tonebar spring, and I think it comes with a harder grommet as well:
https://www.vintagevibe.com/collections/fender-rhodes-tines/products/fender-rhodes-custom-tine-stabilizers

If you have extra tonebar springs on hand, you can simply put two tonebar springs around a single screw, and get better stability on the long tonebars.  I mean that you take two springs, and intermesh their windings (squeeze them together side-by-side), and then push the escapement screw through it.  (I do NOT mean that you stack the springs end-to-end.)


If that is NOT the issue, and the long tines are making a clanging sound... check the strikeline.  I really doubt this is it - but if you haven't played around with the strikeline, it can be an illuminating experience.  Just move the left end of the harp a little bit back and a little bit forward, and see if there is a better contact point on those tines.  Chapter four of the service manual https://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/ch4.html#4-5 claims that the ideal striking spot for those long tines is 57.150mm from the end of the tine.   Yes, they expect you to measure to the 1/1000 of a millimeter.  ...or just 2 and 1/4 inches.

If your tines are cut a tiny bit short, then your tuning springs will be closer to the end of the tine, and the tine may swing differently than a longer tine with the spring tuned to the same pitch... so the "sweet spot" perfect strike location and perfect strike line may be somewhat imperfect. 

In any case, don't set the strikeline by measuring; set the strike line by listening! 

Sean

29

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Restoring '82 MkII Suitcase

« on: November 10, 2020, 09:51:31 AM »

Looks Great!

I would love to see brightly-lit close up photos of the mahogany cheekblocks. 

I think the name rail needs orange pinstripes to match the tolex.  ;-)

When you say "front" speakers, you mean facing the wall, right?  Flip the switches to turn off the front speakers so that the drywall and the window stop shaking, right?

You must be pleased with the outcome, it looks very nice.

Sean

30

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Measurement between pedal and legs

« on: October 04, 2020, 02:43:17 PM »

That front to back measurement is center to center....  So you only have 23 inches of clearance between the legs if you want your pedal board to stick out that side.

My measurements were taken with the legs in the normal position (adjusted to their shortest length).  If you are a circus freak, and play your Rhodes with the legs extended, then you will have a little bit more space.  BTW, the measurements were taken on a 1979 73-key Rhodes Mark I stage piano with the cross braces installed, so it should match your Rhodes.

Sean



Oooh, 900 posts.