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Messages - David Aubke

#51
Quote from: pianotuner steveo on June 07, 2017, 07:18:18 AM
Their purpose is to help keep the paper shims underneath from ripping from the constant movement of the keys

That makes sense.. and also makes a good case for making sure your felts are on top of the shims.
#52
I just had a conversation with a fellow on Facebook regarding the balance rail felts on his wooden-key Mark II.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1643405129261728/permalink/1895248177410754/

He says he bought his piano new and that it never included balance pin felts. Further, if he was to add them, the keys would lift up enough to leave a visible gap in front between the keys and the cabinet. They would also likely bump against the name rail.

1. Anybody else ever seen this? a felt-less balance rail?

2. Just what do those felts do anyway? Do they really affect the feel of the keyboard?

3. What are some of the ramifications of changing those felts? In the past, I've swapped in thicker felts when I needed to make up a gap between the keys and name rail. I tried conducting experiments with a simple mock-up of the mechanics in play. As best I can tell, raising the balance rail reduces key dip a little bit. What else happens?
#53
Quote from: Oliver Sheen on June 06, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Just looked at the EZ outs again and from what I can tell it requires you to have at least some of the head available to drill out - I just have the shaft which is 1/8" diameter. Should that be enough?

A lot of the reviews for EZ outs (and similar from other manufacturers) say that the smallest one (the one I need) is practically useless and wears away almost immediately.

Erick told me he's been able to extract headless screws before. He said he uses a center-punch to make a divot in the top of the shaft. Still seems improbable to me but there ya go.
#54
Quote from: Oliver Sheen on June 06, 2017, 02:06:28 PMIf I plug cut and replace with a close grained hardwood will there still be enough friction on the screws to keep them fixed?

Pretty sure this is what I'd do. I once had to move a factory-drilled hole that wasn't aligned properly. I filled it with an oak plug.
https://www.facebook.com/ShadetreeKeys/photos/pcb.1606421793010569/1606420796344002/
#55
Quote from: Oliver Sheen on June 05, 2017, 04:46:11 PM
Not sure the ez outs will help in this case. They are shearing off flush with the face of the plywood so very little to get any purchase on.

EZ Outs must work - they've been selling them for years - but they've never worked for me. I agree that it seems impractical with such a small surface but Erick Coleman claims he's pulled off similar extractions.
#56
Spoke to a guitar tech at my day job. He says applying heat will help prevent further breakage. Hold a soldering iron on the head of the screw for a while before trying to back it out. The expansion and contraction will help break whatever bond might be holding the screw in there.

He also claims he uses EZ Outs to remove broken screws. He uses a center punch to try to make a divot in whatever's left of the screw shaft then uses that as a starting point for the EZ Out.
#57
I've never had tone bar screws break when backing them out. I regularly encounter stumps left from broken cabinet hardware screws. I use a plug cutter to remove material around the screw until I can get a pliers onto it. Then I refill the void with an appropriate plug. This wouldn't be pretty on a tone bar rail but I don't know what other options exist.

For driving the tone bar screws, I highly recommend using a wax of some sort - either a commercial product or just some paraffin or beeswax.

Some aftermarket screws are of a slightly different diameter than what may have been original in your piano. Additionally, that pinblock-type plywood is very hard and unforgiving of loose tolerances. Lubricate well.
#58
I've never worked with that type of hammer before. And I've also never worked with the felt hammer tips.
But why let that stop me from providing advice?

I'd cut down the felt cubes to fit. Seems like it would be easier than cutting the wood. Those old hammers can sometimes be extremely brittle and I think modifying them would be a risky procedure.

Plus, though it's not a big deal, why not keep it original?
#60
Boy, if I was a less scrupulous individual, I'd take a hacksaw to a piano and make about $80,000 worth of those things.

Quote from: cinnanon on May 18, 2017, 09:29:20 AMThe first time I opened a Rhodes I was a little disappointed. The action just seemed so cheapy. To me it is inferior compared to a wurlitzer, but I am wurlitzer biased. :P

It's certainly a simpler action but when you drop your axe on the pavement unloading it for a gig, you'll be glad it wasn't assembled from hundreds of delicate little pieces.
#61
I think we covered the original topic pretty well anyway...

Lately, I've been wondering, how it is that students of the acoustic piano don't drive all of their neighbors crazy? These days I'm well away from the next house but I grew up in a pretty densely packed neighborhood. I don't remember being self-conscious about practicing but I have to believe the neighbors were thinking something similar to "Oh god, not Bill Grogan's Goat again!"
#62
Not at all. I've encountered BGG somewhere in a "Learn to Play..." book. It's my jam.
#63
Come to think of it, it was Michael Aaron.

And here it is: the tune that almost ended my piano career before it started.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJxsOimnrqA

I remember distinctly staring with white hot rage at Page 23 of the Michael Aaron Grade 1 book. No matter what I did, I couldn't make the slurs sound the way my teacher wanted and it became a battle of wills - he making me start from the top over and over again, me making it sound worse and worse with each iteration. Soon after, I quit piano and didn't pick it up again for about three years.

Good times.

#64
Quote from: Peter Hayes on May 16, 2017, 07:54:01 AM

Seems to me that acoustic pianos are fetching negative selling prices these days. That is, you've got to pay people to take them away.

This is sad.

[Tangent]I still love mine. I grew up learning to play on a Baldwin Acrosonic that my grandparents bought new in the 50s. When my mom passed away, it moved to my uncle's house where it lived for twenty years. A couple of years ago, I retrieved it and have been playing it nearly daily ever since. It's pretty nostalgic to sit there and remember the hours - some of them good, some of them not so good - working through the John Thompson books.[/Tangent]
#65
Quote from: Badoumba on May 15, 2017, 05:34:59 PM
My Mark 1 has 73 hand wounded pickups, for a less bright sound but more harmonics. No gear or tools. It took me a complete week but I am glad I took the time for doing it!
You wound 226,300 wraps by hand? That's dedication.
#66
Quote from: pnoboy on May 15, 2017, 03:46:27 PMI see the same phenomenon with used acoustic pianos.  People want silly money for absolute crapola, and then get offended if you make them a reasonable offer.

Seems to me that acoustic pianos are fetching negative selling prices these days. That is, you've got to pay people to take them away.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/arts/music/for-more-pianos-last-note-is-thud-in-the-dump.html
#67
Quote from: Oliver Sheen on May 15, 2017, 10:18:05 AM
Does the fact that the terminals for the criss crossed pickups are facing the other way from all the other pickups mean anything?

Does this suggest the group of cross-wired pickups came from an earlier Sparkle Top?
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=9126.msg49629#msg49629
#68
There was a recent discussion where the subject of series/parallel wiring came up.
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=9473.0

Here are some recordings comparing the sounds of a Fifty Four wired two different ways.
All series
Series/Parallel
#69
If you wire a Seventy Three entirely in series, you'll end up with a 13K circuit. Pretty hot even by overwound humbucker standards.

I don't think your piano will sound very good wired entirely in series. Of course that's subjective but it will lose too much from the higher frequencies and sound muddy.

I think if you want to strengthen the signal, you should be looking at some Rhodes-specific preamps that are out there.
#70
Just got my harp assembled. Everything feels pretty good so far.

Except I didn't account for the way the tines push the damper arms down and relieve the bridle straps a little bit.

Doh!

I expect to be able to drill out some lead to remedy this.
#71
The KMC 1 I recently worked on had all its pickups wired to alternating poles.


I think it's for hum-cancellation but I can't explain why they stopped doing it or why it was only done to a subset of your pickups.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/how-hum-cancelling-works-part-1
#72
You gotta get some felt on those pedestals. Without it, that behavior is normal.
#73
Well, my hypothesis was that electro-mechanical pianos were experiencing a resurgence.

Fewer listings could indicate either a boom or bust but higher prices suggests the former.
#74
Until about six months ago, I could always see at least one decent deal listed in my local(ish) Craig's List. Lately, not so much. And I could be mistaken, but it seems like ebay hasn't been as forthcoming as it used to be. I only see a handful of pianos and all for high asking prices.

I've been playing pretty fast and loose with pianos, assuming the next unit is always available somewhere in nearby classified listings. But I'm wondering if I need to adjust my values a little for a tightening market.
#75
Quote from: timpotent on May 03, 2017, 01:14:42 PM
I think you' re talking about a Rhodes pedal  :P
Doggone it. How did I end up in the Wurlitzer section?

I wondered how they could mistake that pedal for wood.
#76
Quote from: tjh392 on May 03, 2017, 04:28:06 AM
Quote from: cinnanon on May 02, 2017, 11:48:51 AM
Quote from: funkylaundry on May 02, 2017, 07:17:25 AM
I've purchased a sustain pedal and legs from vintagegear.eu and I'm very happy with the result.

The sustain pedal is not wrapped in Tolex like the original, but it still looks very convincing and feels like I imagine my original one would have when it was new.

I don't believe the originals were Tolexed, but instead covered in a thick paint-spatter pattern. I've seen dings in them below the paint and they are just wood.

Cinnanon is right, they are wood with a textured paint finish.

They're aluminum. Some bare metal with a brushed finish, some with matte black paint and some with black crinkle paint.
#77
The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Tines...
April 30, 2017, 08:05:53 AM
Quote from: pnoboy on April 29, 2017, 07:13:25 AM
I think it's fair to say that RL produces tight grommets whereas VV produces loose grommets.  That is to say, the VV grommets slide easily over the screws, but the RL grommets are too tight to slide easily.  I don't know if this difference is significant, or if it has significance to the sound and bark of a Rhodes.  Please, RL and VV, chime in if I am misrepresenting your product in any way.

I agree with this characterization and similarly withhold judgment about which is the superior or most appropriate fit.
#78
Facebook links are hit-or-miss for me but maybe this will work.

This is how I like to make dowels for filling holes.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/ShadetreeKeys/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1694600330859381
#79
Quote from: Dan Belcher on April 27, 2017, 07:05:09 AM
The "specialist" they brought in to determine the value said they could sell it for around $2500, so the store offered the guy $1200.

Well, I'd say that sounds about right for a Mk V. Though I'm surprised a pawn shop would accept such a meager profit margin. I'd have thought they'd offer more like five or six hundred.
#80
The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Tines...
April 25, 2017, 02:43:59 PM
Quote from: Chris Carroll on April 25, 2017, 01:36:02 PMSince that time, it seems that the community as a whole has come to agree that one size grommet does not fit all.

Is there an online Rhodes community I'm unaware of? I frequent this one and a couple of Facebook groups.
I don't recall anyone ever claiming one size grommet fits all but this is clearly an issue you feel strongly about.
#81
...and?

What'd it go for? I don't get that channel so, spoilers be damned.
#82
Thanks Alan.

If I remember correctly, most of the noise coming from the Pianet T I had was remedied by replacing the defective output jack.

The recording I made is still a little noisy but it doesn't sound like a grounding issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIx-SHoEMFs
#83
Quote from: Peter Hayes on April 24, 2017, 12:19:23 PM
I think this is what you're looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84rIQC2Ot18

Holy moly. I don't think I went through all that. I thought there was some single point that provided continuity to the entire set of keys. I'll have to dig through my pictures to see if anything jogs my memory.
#84
Hi folks,

A Pianet-T owner wrote to me asking how I grounded the keyshafts on a unit that came through my shop a few years back. I don't think it was a complicated task but I have no memory of carrying it out.

I found a reference in an old post to a Youtube video that discusses this but I can't find the video.
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7067.msg36222#msg36222

Can anyone explain the best way to proceed?
#85
Quote from: Peter Hayes on April 22, 2017, 12:46:22 PM
Here's a detail loaded piece on this subject.

http://www.pianofinders.com/educational/touchweight.htm

Thanks Peter. I think I skimmed that one as part of my research.

"Lead weights will indeed counterbalance a heavy hammer, but will also add inertia: actions with a large quantity of lead in the keys feel sluggish, especially when trying to play fast repeated notes, trills or in any other situation where the key has to move quickly."

This may be where I'm headed. We'll see. I've got another late 70s here (albeit with bump-modded flat pedestals) so I should be able to do A/B testing. If I can't tell immediately, I may try to find some local pianists to provide an opinion.
#86
A few observations so far.

I started at middle C and headed upward. I worried that I was doing nothing but lightening the action and that's not really what I set out to do. When I got up to the lighter damper arms, things changed and I've even found myself adding weight to the rear of a few keys making them feel heavier. By the same mechanics, the bass keys are going to require quite a bit of weight (relatively speaking) at their fronts. The upshot is, I'm now more hopeful that I'm balancing the touchweight across the keyboard and not just lightening everything.

What I said earlier about helping the key past its starting point before taking a real measurement isn't really true. Once I got a better feel for what I was doing, it became more straightforward and I chose and located weights until my reference weight simply caused the key to sink from start to finish at a slow, consistent rate.

I hope I'm doing it right. I have drill bits in 1/64" increments (checked again, not true) but nothing that matches the diameter of the weights perfectly. Also, the weights are irregular. Some fit tightly while others leave all kinds of gaps I'm basically backfilling with wood glue. I bought weights in three sizes but I'm afraid to use the largest as I'd have to compromise the structural integrity of the key to install them.

It'll be a while before I can really test this. The harp is still in hundreds of pieces.
#87
It may have taken me twenty minutes but I got there!

Quote from: Ben Bove on April 18, 2017, 05:54:50 PM
I forgot to mention that there is a slight increase in tension as you push a key down - the damper arm is tied directly to the hammer, and the damper is basically spring-loaded to recoil on release.  How much of that you could feel or is measurable, not sure.

This, of course, explains why I stopped needing so much weight. The change occurred right at the breakpoint between the mid-range damper arms and the treble arms. These arms have the largest cutouts near their bases.
#88
Just started the third octave. About halfway through the second, several of the keys needed no weight at all, which was a comfort to me. I'm not especially interested in lightening the action, I only wanted to know what it would feel like "in spec".
#89
Quote from: Ben Bove on April 18, 2017, 02:45:51 PMHowever, is the weight a player feels based off of that initial felt-dragging on the attack?  I can't say for sure and might not matter as much.

This concerns me a little bit. I think, with an angled cam, almost all of the force occurs right at the beginning. The first few millimeters flings the hammer upwards and the rest of the distance is just about getting the pedestal in position to catch the hammer. So, what I'm doing is kind of missing the point.

Basically, I'm just making the action feel very light. We'll see if that's a good thing.
#90
Quote from: Ben Bove on April 18, 2017, 01:58:41 PMOn early pianos with no bump, I do not believe the tipping point would be linear while the hammer rolls over the pedestal, and more weight may need to be applied to get the key all the way down.  Perhaps on other pianos with a factory bump mod, the most force is required at initial key strike to get the hammer moving, and then it's very light after that.  I could imagine an aftermarket bump mod kit would have some real adjustments needed.

I'm afraid I don't completely understand this paragraph. Seems like you're saying early pianos require non-linear force but also late pianos require non-linear force.

To me, the curved cam and no bump means early pianos do require linear force. And this is primarily why I dislike playing them. Even after a bump mod, they still feel slow to me. I much prefer the angled cam of later models where there's an initial push followed by much lighter resistance.

When I'm testing the touchweight, I help the key past that initial movement and only test the remaining 80% of travel. If I insisted on moving the key entirely by 60 grams, I think I'd have to add too much weight.

If this works OK, I'll be very interested in what I could do with an early Rhodes. I really don't like playing them that much as they are. On the other hand, if this ruins my piano, I'll have a whole bunch of holes to fill.
#91
Has anyone ever concerned themselves with the key touchweight of a Rhodes? The first few hits on Google say standard acoustic piano touchweight is between 50 and 60 grams. I'm currently working on a late 70s with factory pedestal bumps and its action is about as light as any Rhodes. But the keys all require substantially more than 60 grams to depress.

I've begun adding weights to the fronts of the keys and sure enough, they feel very light. My main concern is I'm reducing the keys' ability to return quickly to upright. I think I'm going to have to wait until it's finished before I can decide whether this was a mistake.
#93
The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Greetings!
April 17, 2017, 07:17:22 AM
Quote from: PaulHelmuth on April 15, 2017, 08:34:54 AMI had to take about 3mm of the treble end support in addition to the shim that was on it.

I cut down one of my harp supports once as well.
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7352.msg37524#msg37524

Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
#94
Quote from: adcbicycle on April 13, 2017, 10:16:21 AMWhat size wire did you end up using after your trials David? I'm trying 36AWG.

I use 36 or 37 ("220, 221... whatever it takes"). I don't remember which I was able to get my hands on but I don't think it makes any difference.
#95
Quote from: Max Brink on April 12, 2017, 11:44:35 PMthe plastic between the mounting for the bobbin and windings

I just can't figure out what you're talking about here. To me, the only plastic part involved is the bobbin itself.


Quote from: adcbicycle on April 13, 2017, 08:38:41 AMTesting different number of windings should be an easy experiment though. I would bet the effect of more windings would be an increased volume, so similar to moving the pick up closer the tine. I could be wrong though.

The first two rewinds I ever did were for a Fifty Four with white-tape pickups. It didn't occur to me that the magnet wire would be such a heavy gauge so I used regular guitar pickup wire that I had on-hand. Instead of measuring the resistance, I measured the diameter of the coil to decide when I was done. The result was a pickup with at least 50% more wraps than standard. Someday, I'll be digging that Fifty Four back out and I can speak more authoritatively about the effect but at the time, I didn't even notice while playing.

More wraps should basically equal more volume. But it also generally means a warmer sound - "warm" being a euphemism for muddy. I'd be more interested in reducing the wraps or alternating reverse-wrapped pickups or something like that.

For me, reducing the output strength of the individual pickups and/or the entire circuit results in tone with more character - more distinct individual notes with bell-like sound. This is why I rewired my Fifty Four to be more like a Seventy Three.

[edit]
I forgot I had made recordings of the two configurations - the Fifty Four's original all-series vs. sets of three in series like a Seventy Three. I can hear a difference and I definitely like the weaker signal.
All series
Series/Parallel
[/edit]
#96
Quote from: adcbicycle on April 12, 2017, 02:19:44 PMWhy do you suggest the spool at 90 degrees?

We sell winders for guitar pickups at my day job. In the instructions for the Schatten winder, it says
Pickup wire isn't meant to feed off a rotating spool. It's too thin to take the strain of turning the spool. Instead, let the wire feed off the end of the spool vertically, about 3 or 4 feet below the winder
Rhodes pickup wire is much thicker than the wire they're talking about but it's still an unnecessary risk.


Quote from: adcbicycle on April 12, 2017, 02:19:44 PMI was thinking I'd use the fact that the wire is coiled on the spool in order to get an even horizontal distribution on the pickup. How are you doing this? Are you manipulating it by hand?
Yes, I run the wire between pinched fingers so that I can both control the distribution across the bobbin as well as the tension. There is vigorous debate in the tone-nerd community regarding which is better: machine wound or 'scatter wound'. I've never heard of someone using the supply spool to control distribution but that's probably because you're not supposed to be unrolling it like that.

Quote from: adcbicycle on April 12, 2017, 02:19:44 PMI was considering a counter as an add on, that digital one you have looks nice, where did you get it?
https://www.amazon.com/Counter-Digital-Proximity-Switch-Magnetic/dp/B01875612U
#97
That looks awesome!

If I may make a couple of suggestions:
1. The magnet wire used in Rhodes pickups is heavy enough to tolerate it but normally, you'd feed the wire off the end of the spool. Most pickup wire for guitars is much lighter and can't handle the tension needed to turn the whole spool. I guess since this is just for Rhodes, it's OK as-is but you might think about turning the spool 90 degrees.
2. I feel like more space between the spool and the wire guide would make this easier to use. You've got to get your hands in there to steer the wire and regulate tension.
3. Is there a counter anywhere in there?

Here's my homebrew rig. It could really use better bearing mounts like yours has.

(In this configuration, I'm transferring wire from one pickup (with a damaged center lead) to another.)
#98
I bought replacements from ebay for a much more reasonable price.

At the time, I came to the conclusion that not all hybrid hammers were super-brittle. The set I replaced were but the set I replaced them with weren't.
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=8258.0
#99
Many of those early hammers are extremely brittle. Not all, but many. I've replaced an entire set before because I didn't trust the originals to hold up and I'll bet that's why Vintage Vibe replaced all hammers on a restoration they recently posted to Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/vintagevibeepc/posts/10154499739223435
#100
Here's what you're dealing with.


Seems like a risky undertaking to me.

When I'm presented with a misaligned hammer, I usually try to resolve the issue by swapping hammers around.