Messages

Hello, and welcome to the forum. That is some really nice wood-work you've done there. I love my 54. It is probably the last thing in the world I would ever sell.

I am not an expert, at anything, but perhaps I can offer you a few suggestions.

1) I had the same issue with a couple of tines when I first got my 54, and the screwdriver test was the same result. I ended up replacing one of the tines, and got away with using a tone-bar clip on the other. Have you tried swapping the B with one of its neighbors to see if the problem follows the tine?

2) Are the keys grouped together, in a certain range, or just randomly scattered about? Usually when I've had a problem like that it's because the damper bar was not aligned properly into one of its sockets.

3) If your pickups are adjusted properly and are as close as possible to the end of the tines, you may have a dead pickup in there, perhaps where the volume begins to drop off significantly. The 54 pickups were originally wired in series, and unless you modified that by adding jumpers to make it series-parallel (groups of three in parallel, wired to the next group in series) I think that if you have one bad pickup you can either lose the whole piano, or just the pickups following the bad one. I know that there has been some debate around here about this, but I don't recall what the final answer was. If you're handy with a multi-meter, I would definitely start by checking the resistance across those pickups.

4) I wouldn't try bending the hammer head as you would risk breaking it and then you would be sad. If the hammer is not hitting the tine properly, it could be a multitude of things. Perhaps you could post a short video, that would help to see what is going on there.

I will offer one more suggestion; I was able to do a lot of the work you have done when I first got my 54. But I took it to a proper tech to have it tuned and voiced, and to address a few duff notes. I don't remember what it cost, but I do remember that it didn't seem like much when I considered the fact that he was able to dial in my piano in a couple of hours, whereas I would have probably spent days if not weeks on it, and in the end it may or may not have come out sounding as good as it does now.

Playing at "home" levels and recording are kind of two separate beasts. For example, everything I've recorded over the last 10 years I've gone direct from my Rhodes along with whatever pedals I'm incorporating through a mixer (Yamaha MG 8/2fx) to an audio interface. However, I have a Vintage Vibe Stereo preamp that goes a long way towards dialing in my desired tone, which is usually pretty clean.

Playing at home/at lower volumes can be a different situation, especially if you are incorporating pedals/effects which, presumably you might be. I've tried a lot of smaller tube amps over the last several years, including hot rods, a deluxe reverb, and blues jr's.  They all tend to get too dirty for me. I have a Concert 2x10 that I used to use when I was playing out more often. It is 60 watts and stays pretty clean for me. I had a Twin for a minute and would agree that it's really overkill for playing at home. I run all my boards through my mixer and usually use headphones, but when I need to I can run a line out of the mixer to a couple of powered speakers (QSC K10.2).

If you're looking for an all-in-one box-on-a-budget with effects and EQ, I might have suggested something like one of the Roland Cubes, or maybe the Boss Katana. But if you're not getting on with the tube pre-amp/Champion combo, perhaps you might be happier with a smaller tube amp and some pedals. I would just warn that if you decide to get a tube amp, ~50 watts seems to be my cutoff. Everything I've tried that's smaller than that just breaks up to quickly for me.

http://www.shadetreekeys.com/2011/09/09/pickups/

First thing I'd probably do is get an rca -> 1/4" cable and go direct off the harp, just to rule out the pre-amp.

Next step would probably be check the ground wire going from the pick-ups to the rca.

The sliders are resistors, along with a capacitor on the "tone", and they are probably about 40 years old at this point. By taking the signal directly from the rca off of the harp, you will get a cleaner signal, and can determine whether or not they are part of your volume problems- assuming the amp you're using is working properly.

It seems okay to me but again, and I cannot stress this enough, I'm no expert.

My advice would be to make sure all of the pickups are good, add the "jumpers", then check the resistance across the groups of 3 as you go. You should get somewhere around 60-65 ohm. It's very easy to damage the pickup when soldering the wire to the leads if you're not careful.

I still recommend getting yourself an rca -> 1/4" cable and bypassing the "tone" and "volume" controls. It'd be good to rule that out and they really don't add anything to the tone anyway.

BTW, the date stamp on my 54 is 1280. We're practically 2nd cousins. 

180-185 ohm is a good pickup. That multi-meter will jump around on you if you aren't really steady with the leads.

A group of 3 soldered together in parallel should get you around 60 ohm across the group.

Maybe you could post some pics of your 54.

That's a real mess you've got there. 

I am certainly no expert, but I've used the same multi-meter to assess pickups. Clips would probably work better.

I would reiterate that you're better off going parallel/series so that you don't lose the whole piano when one pickup goes out.

Just looking at the pics, it looks like it has not had the best life in recent years. As such, I'd probably replace the rca off the harp as well.

Re: the push-rod...

Sean, I still have both of the rods I made following the model you discussed here:
https://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=3834.msg36616#msg36616

Of course, having the spare means I will probably never lose the one I regularly use. But it does give me some small peace of mind knowing that if I do, I'm covered. Thanks again.

Was this a recent purchase, or have you had this piano for awhile? Did the pickups all recently go out? I mean, were they working one day and then suddenly all stopped?

I'm not sure what is being measuring between the breaks, but on mine I get around 120 ohm across the rail. I get 60 ohm across the groups of 3. Have you measured the resistance of any of the "Dead" pickups?

I have a lot of love for my Korg R3.

Out of curiosity have you tried by passing the preamp and instead taken the signal straight from the RCA jack on the harp to see if the problem persists?

I would definitely try this 1st. The volume and "tone" sliders are passive and don't really do anything but suck your tone anyway.

The pick-ups on a 54 are wired in series, so if 1 goes out, you lose everything. When I got my 54 I wanted to put a VV pre-amp in it. After reading here:
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=6665.msg33329#msg33329
and here:
http://www.shadetreekeys.com/2011/10/01/parallel-wiring/
and here:
http://www.shadetreekeys.com/2011/09/03/tine-bomb-preamp/
I decided to add some "jumpers" and reconfigure the wiring across the pick-ups to the "series-parallel" to accommodate the pre-amp, and to eliminate the problem of losing the whole piano when 1 pick-up goes out.

If your piano is still wired in series, I would try measuring the resistance across the whole pick-up rail. It should be around 10K ohms. If it is significantly lower, you probably have some dead or dying pick-ups. If not, then the problem probably lies somewhere else.

Anyone using/used one of these? 50 watt with the red knobs?

I found one at a local guitar shop and they let me "borrow" it for the weekend. First impression is I like it. Not sure if I love it. Pretty loud, pretty clean, might hold up on stage against a guitar without breaking up too much, but obviously not as clean as my QSC K12, which is just a little too clean.

On the floor next to it they also had a Concert 50- same watts with 1 12" speaker. I haven't "borrowed" that one yet...but something told me I'd get better results with 2 10s vs the 1 12.

For starters, I have a 54 Stage with a VV stereo pre-amp. I was using a Mesa Boogie 50-caliber plus borrowed from a friend and was getting nice clean tones with lots of head room. The lead channel, set right, would cut glass without the bleeding ears...but I'm not really in a position to continue borrowing it without some serious soul sacrificing.

Rhodes Stage leg braces pdf:
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=8780.0

I made some braces for my 54 because the piano had just a little too much sway for me. I used 3/16" steel flat stock which has worked well for me.

Pictures here (very bottom of p. 14):
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=1038.390

FWIW, I was a bit lazy the other day and didn't feel like putting the legs on my 54, so I pulled out my On Stage Z stand. (Same as the ones pictured above). https://on-stage.com/products/view/28856/116994

Seems really solid and stable, as it should. The stand is rated at 375 lbs and my 54 weighs EXACTLY 100. 

I like that the footprint is a bit smaller than with the legs. Only downside is that it's my primary gig stand so I might just have to pick up another one.

I got this from fellow forum member Sean awhile back and thought that others would probably find it useful. For pictures, please refer to this thread:
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=6876.msg34529#msg34529

Cheers!

Matt

Thanks Steveo. I picked up a small bottle of that weldwood contact cement and went at it last night. No problems pulling the keys out. I followed the instructions per light sanding, cleaning and prepping both pieces, glued the tops back on, and set them with a couple of small clamps while I had a pint. After about an hour, I put everything back together and played a little just to make sure everything was okay. So far, so good. Thanks again!

I guess I'll start with contact cement?

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7057.0

I apologize in advance, as this is not related to an ep.

I was playing an older upright last night which had just been acquired by a local bar. Towards the end of the night, I managed to break 2 of the black key tops off. They are plastic and hollow. I've been doing a lot of poking around the web today, and have found a lot of various opinions about what I could use to re-glue them.

I know there are some professional techs around here, and was just wondering what some of you would recommend that I might be able to pick up at a local hardware store.

Thanks in advance for any help.

very cheap and easy:

http://www.thomann.de/fr/millenium_laptopstand.htm

i put velcro on it, and on the bottom of a small synth, and it's ok.

Would that be the stand in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncNGAjRy72Y&list=UUcuIQN1uIclUyaW2E_MOUTA 


I looked at a couple of laptop stands. I was pretty close to trying something like this:
http://www.pssl.com/DJ-Laptop-Stands/Deluxe-Dj-Laptop-Computer-Stand-WClamp-And-Tray

I'd probably ditch the "tray", use some 1x2" pieces of wood to extend the legs, and thought maybe I could use the clamps to keep it from sliding around. Interesting that the rated weight capacity is "over 10 lbs". So does that mean it won't work for a little 5 lb Korg?

The thing about all of the laptop stands is that they would put the keyboard directly over my Nord. In a perfect world, I would prefer to have the keyboard sit lower, and a little further back. Ergonomically, I think it would be more comfortable reaching "out" as opposed to "up", but I'll give you the Occam's Razor Award for simplicity.

dnarkosis- that is a nice one. Definitely overkill for what I need, but then I tend to lean towards overkill when I'm constructing anything. There do appear to be some bits and pieces available around the ebay, particularly the all important arms, with or without the crossbar, which could probably be had for le$$ at the local hardware chain.

Aside from feeling wholly uncomfortable with the idea of drilling into the legs on my Rhodes, I also don't see how likely it would be that the holes would line up just right every time I set it up, but I do like the idea of using all 4 legs as opposed to just 2 for the base. I've built enough stuff to know that if you don't have a good foundation, the rest is basically moot. Perhaps one way around that might be to use something similar to the clamp I already had in mind.

Now that I think about it, there was a pair of Ultimate Speaker stands on my local CL not that long ago- I think they wanted something like $50. Indeed, there are a few postings on there now for pairs ~$50 or less that would probably supply all of the tubing I would need, and maybe some of the hardware too....

I'm looking for a way to incorporate a second keyboard, a small-ish synth, into my gig rig without increasing my footprint on stage. The most recent thread I could find here was http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7136.0, however http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=2391.0 was a bit more relevant.

I started looking into the Jens Lüpke solution, but there are a few things about this that I do not like. My Nord already sits pretty comfortably on top of my Rhodes, I don't think I want it sitting any higher. Furthermore, I'm definitely not in love with the idea of adding more weight and stress to the harp cover.

I read somewhere else about folks who have modified or found creative ways to augment a typical 2nd tier for a standard keyboard stand. Part of this solution usually seems to involve using some 1" pipe to act as the "top" of the traditional stand, and then going up from there. Again, this would translate into more weight imparted onto the harp cover.

I've considered getting a new stand, something like the ws650, but I have legs (and braces) and would like to keep using them as I just don't think another stand will give me the stability that I already have.

The other day I started looking at drum hardware and found this:



I was thinking I could clamp one end to the top of the back legs and go out/up from there with a standard 2nd tier (On Stage, Quik-Lok, etc). I like the idea that this would not add any weight to the top of the Rhodes, but realize that this may put a stress on the legs that they were not really intended to handle. Still, I think the legs are pretty darn sturdy, and aside from possibly (probably) marring the chrome a bit, I think this could work.

I'm just curious what some of you around here think about it. Alternatively, if anyone has found some other way of doing this, I would greatly appreciate your ideas.

If you re-tolex you should match or compliment the Nord.

Hmmm.....more food for thought. I like it. I'll add that after re-stumbling across pics of your MIDI rig the other day      I've given your thoughts on the matter a little more credence.

Part of the reason I've put off making a decision whether or not to re-tolex is this: making the decision to do it leads to having to make another decision of whether or not to go with a traditional look or something more unique.

Didn't know Fifty Fours ever had leg braces.

I made the braces out of 3/16" steel flat stock. I felt that the piano had a little too much sway, especially when playing palm smears on the Nord. I'm pretty sure there is some improved stability overall.

Peter: that is a beauty, for sure. I've been wrestling with whether or not to re-tolex my Rhodes. I'm still on the fence about it, but seeing that really kind of makes me think about doing it.

Well, I firmly believe it's what's on the inside that counts...



I've put a few "scratches" on it myself in the last year. It happens.

It looks a little better from this angle:



I found it on CL and bought it off of a guitar player last summer who acquired it from a former bandmate. That was all he could tell me about it, so I can't speak too much about it's history, but I can say that it's destiny now lies somewhere along the same path as my own.

It appears to have been completed around the 12th week of 1980 and was not in too terrible shape, all things considered. Aside from some minor cosmetic blemishes, it was minus a pedal along with one of the hinges and one of the latches on the lid. 

After some consideration, and a bit of guidance from some good folks around here, I opted to pursue the "cleanest" tone possible, figuring that there are myriad ways to color the tone, with or without tubes along the signal path. I already had a nice QSC K12 that I was using for my other keyboards, and really liked what I was getting out of it for the Rhodes. I had a Twin for about a week, and while I really like that too, I felt in the end that it was a lot more than I needed, and more than I wanted to have to deal with as well. I took a chance and went with a VV Stereo Vibe preamp. Much thanks and appreciation to Dave Aubke (a.k.a. Shadetree Keys) for helping me figure out how to rewire the pickups to accommodate the Stereo Vibe, among other things.

I was lucky enough to find a good deal on a second K12, and the end result I think is a bit like having a more portable Suitcase, though on most gigs I only use 1 speaker.

Along with replacing screws and grommets (gromlets?) and a couple of pickups that died in the last year, I also extended the softer shore tips from the mid section up into the mid/upper register in an attempt to get a bit more mellow attack through this range. However, I wanted someone with more experience to give it a proper tuning and voicing (I think that every Rhodes should probably see a proper tech at least once every 30 years or so), and at this point will shamelessly plug Max at the Chicago Electric Piano Company.  If you are lucky enough to be near the City of the Big Shoulders, and can arrange a visit to his shop, I guarantee you will not be disappointed. I simply cannot speak highly enough of him.

I've had quite a few keyboardists and piano players sit in at gigs in the last year, some who were/are quite good- better than me anyways. The verdict so far has been unanimous; it is an absolutely wonderful instrument to play. I love being able to get out front and hear it through a large house P.A. where it sounds fat, and warm, and punchy and just plain huge.



Anyone traveling through lower SW Wisconsin is invited to stop by and sit in if you like. We can generally be found playing out just about every Sunday, most Thursdays, random Saturdays, the last Monday of the month, and the occasional Friday night as well.

If you are in Portugal, you might want to try Vintage Music Parts.

Good Luck!

Sean, Dave, et al.

Just wanted to say thanks again, and let all y'all know how it went. I made some braces out of 1 x 3/16" steel flat stock and I think there is definitely some added stability.

My first attempts at making the braces using conduit were educational to say the least. I think the "slit" is to allow some relief in the metal where it is getting squashed/bent. I tried making the slit where I though the bend should begin, and that sort of worked. In the end, I think that using anything round will require some spot/tack weld in the vicinity of the bend, especially if there is any cutting going on.

The saving grace was that I was able to mount the brace plate last, so I had some room for error. After making the first 2 bends, I realized that I had lost about 3/8" in the length between the bends, and this ultimately pushed the brace plate back about an inch. Law of Cosines, or something like that....

Sean- the pdf you sent is fantastic- it deserves to be pinned up on the forum somewhere. I am keeping it handy for when I get some time to bounce this little project between a couple of friends- one of them has a dad who was a t.v. repair man. He's got this awesome set of tools, and he can fix anything.....

Great! Thanks Dave.

I have the standard issue legs, with the gap that screws tight about 4" up from the bottom of the legs. I ordered a plate which comes with some hardware, but I am counting on at least 1 trip to the store. Either way, it appears that there will be some T-nuts along with a 1/4"-20 bolt of some sort in my future.

Another thing I am unsure of is how the plate is mounted. There are 2 other holes in the plate for mounting. I'm guessing either more T-nuts and some bolts, or just some fat 3/4" wood screws.

A rough measurement from bend-to-bend looks like about 29" which is a couple inches shorter than the original braces, as it should be. I will get a more accurate number when I get the plate, but I am planning on aiming a little shorter as opposed to longer. This would keep it closer towards the back, to avoid the balance rail, but it looks like I will be okay if I center it.

I will still try to make some sort of prototype with the conduit I have laying around. Who knows, if it seems rigid enough then that just may be the end of it. I will let you know how it all shakes out, along with any lessons learned.

Greetings brothers and sisters.

I am on the hunt for some leg braces for my 54. I realize that these were not part of the original design, but I have got it in my head that there is just too much sway in the piano when I put a second keyboard on top and play with any kind of enthusiasm.

I've considered just going with a table style stand, but I really think that legs, properly braced, would provide better support. Entry level for these stands seems to be around $100, double that for the heavier duty models, so I would like to keep it to around $100 or less.

I'm either looking for anyone who might be able to manufacture something, or some guidance in making my own. Vintage Music in Portugal is the only supplier I've found so far that would try and make them, but I am a bit leery about spending around $100 on custom hardware from so far away.

From the handful of threads on the subject I've found around here, I think I have most of the info I would need to try and make something myself. I have some 3/4" conduit laying around that I could use to make some templates, but I think I would ultimately want to use something with a thicker wall. The only number I am not sure of is the distance along the upper flange (brace plate end) from the center line of the notch to the bend. There seemed to be some discrepancy about whether it was/is 1 1/8" or 1 1/2".

If anyone can confirm this, or point me in the direction of someone in the U.S. who might be able to make a set of custom braces, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

I am looking to add some chorus to the mix, something with stereo inputs for around $100. I've found the TC Corona, and the Boss CE-20. Is there any love out there for either of these pedals? Are there any others worth considering in this range?

I had the chance to try out a RI for about a week. At one point, after playing around for a few days on "1" and wondering why on Earth there would ever be a need to even approach "10", just for kicks, I thought I would try and play on "5" for a minute- the tone didn't change that much, but man that was loud. Too loud. Probably dangerously loud. I lasted about 30 seconds at which point my ears began to feel like they were going to start bleeding. I noticed the single pane window in the room looking like it was about to shatter. The only way I could ever see a need to be that loud is if I was on stage with a lot of loud guitars, and I had the amp about 20 feet behind me.

I found that I really liked the sound of the amp at right around "1", which seemed like kind of a waste of headroom, but ultimately I felt I was looking for a different kind of tone altogether so I took the RI back. Although, if I was playing with Santana I could certainly see the need for one.I also wasn't a huge fan of the schlep factor. I don't play out that much, but I can't see moving an RI at the end of the night as being any kind of fun. A friend of mine plays his Rhodes through an old 15W Vibro Champ, which he says get's plenty loud for just jamming at home.

Just a quick follow up...I'm gonna have to call it a bad tine. Even with a tone bar clip, I was only getting around 2-3 seconds of sustain. Adding the screwdriver stretched it out to around 5 seconds. Swapping out the tine with a new/used tine now gives me a good 7-8 seconds of sustain.

I made a quick recording if anyone really wants to hear the difference. I think I will call it, "Air on the G# tine".

It all seems kind of petty now, as if given all of the world's problems today, a few seconds of sustain can really be of any importance. I guess it's the little things in life...

I had the same problem when I put my laptop or my Nord on top of my piano. It obviously wasn't a big deal to move the laptop off to one side, but I really like having the Nord on top for gigs. The hum is not really noticeable when playing, but it definitely is in between songs, or when I am playing at home. I've learned to turn the volume down on the Rhodes when we are in between songs, but I recently set out to locate and hopefully alleviate the problem.

This is one of the threads I found to be very enlightening, which also has links to a few other very informative threads:
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=6273.0

Some really good stuff there, as always. I still have some trouble shooting to do, but I'm fairly confident that I will find the answer somewhere in these threads.

I JUST pulled mine out because I need to make one for a 73 stage.

From my 54:

The diameter is about 3/4" and definitely less than 7/8".
The overall length is right about 3+3/8" not including the felt on both ends.
The retaining pin is about 1+1/2" from the top, or about 1+7/8" from the bottom.

Hi, Dote. Thanks for the reply. Nice photo- so that's what they're supposed to look like when they're new.

From the other photos of their 44 and 64 pianos, it looks to me like VV uses a numbering scheme similar to a 73 note Rhodes (1-73) whereas my 54 is based on an 88: http://www.flickr.com/photos/92477420@N08/8399894766/

Regardless, my math says that they are switching from the uppermost "flat" tone bars to the "twisted" ones at the same place, right at my dodgy G#. So you are correct that clips can be, and are utilized that far down the piano, even on a brand new tine/tone bar.

I read in another grommet/sustain thread about the tine stabilizers (http://www.vintagevibe.com/p-786-vintage-fender-rhodes-custom-tine-stabilizers.aspx). I was under the impression that they were used to limit horizontal oscillations in the lower tines. I will probably try replacing the tine first, as the stronger spring solution would still seem to be a band-aid of sorts, but for $2 it might just be worth a shot.  Either way, I will be sure to let you know how it all works out.

The screwdriver changed the mass of the tone generator and bar just slightly enough to help it resonate better at its tuned pitch. Did you try it with differently sized screwdrivers?

That started as a joke but, who knows?

I finally worked up the nerve to go after the screws/grommets in my 54 so I could give it a proper tuning and voice it. I am still plagued by 2 notes that I just cannot seem to get right- G and G# (#59 and 60, respectively). Both seem to sustain alright when "plucked" outside of the piano, as outlined by bjammerz here: http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7093.0

I have been through probably a dozen configurations of springs, screws, and grommets using VV grommets, "best of the old", and some which were graciously "donated" by Max at The Chicago Electric Piano Co (along with some other assorted parts in an attempt to sort this out). I've moved screw/grommet pairs from neighboring notes that sound great onto it, tried using smaller tuning, larger springs, and am about ready to call it a bad tine, but I swear the note did not sound this bad before I replaced the grommets. It is probably worth noting that the G initially had 2 springs on the outer screw, so I even tried that.

In just about every configuration, the tine would light up when I held a screwdriver to one of the adjustment screws- more often the outer or keyboard-side screw. I either have too much time, or too many screwdrivers, but I pulled out the kitchen scale in an attempt to determine how much additional mass it really takes. Basically, I boiled it down to around 180 grams as a threshold, with about 200g yielding a very nice sustain. Anything below about 150g had no effect. I have added tone bar clips to both notes now, and these are helping, but I have never seen clips on tone bars this low so I am sure it is something else.

I have only been able to find this thread and the aforementioned thread regarding this phenomenon, but the recommended solution would seem to be split between replacing the tine or keep trying different spring/screw/grommet combinations. Any redirection to other threads or useful advice would be greatly appreciated, as always.

Mmmmmm good stuff, very tasty. You really managed to get all of the major food groups into that one. I think I have a few New Year's resolutions to add to the list now.
I love the "almost clean"+chorus at 2.10, it kind of sounds like the piano is breathing in there. And of course a very nice Stella.
Thanks for sharing.

Marvelous, as usual. Really shines at the 1.00 mark. Thank you for continuing to inspire. When are you coming to Wisconsin?

A couple months ago I set about replacing some worn out looking grommets/screws when I acquired a 54 so I could give it a proper tuning and fix a few duff notes. The first thing I screwed up/learned is that when I put the first note back together I had reversed the spring configuration. I completely lost all sustain on that note. When I realized what I had done, I reversed the springs and the sustain came right back. Now, I always look twice and take pictures before I take anything apart. It definitely can make a difference which spring goes on which screw.

Thank you again for taking the time to educate me. I have come across El Potator before- probably around this forum. I have to say that the demo sounds really good to my ears. I would love to check one of those out sometime but, like the TRamp, they seem to be a little hard to come by.

I decided to start with a smallish Samson mixer for the moment: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MDR624/
I have been trying to avoid going the mixer route, but it is starting to seem more and more inevitable since I am generally going to be running at least the Rhodes along with a Nord into both speakers, and the QSC's gain is not really all that smooth- sort of goes from 0 to about 3-4 before jumping to around 9 or 10. It makes sense to me now to start with the mixer, since it will be the last link before the speakers, and if I can't keep the noise floor down there, the rest would seem to be moot.

The vibe I've gotten on small mixers in general is that the pre's are generally cr@p, but the Samson stuff doesn't seem to get the knee-jerk reaction that is sometimes associated with the other models in this $ range. I like that I can have separate control over the bass, mid and highs for each channel, plus I will still have room to run another board in stereo (just in case someone ever decides to buy me a Moog).

I have heard more than enough people recommend going direct off the harp, and I have already committed to trying this as I can already see that the "volume" and "tone" sliders on the rail are basically worthless. I haven't quite sorted out all of the issues with the duff notes yet, and she could probably use a proper tuning, but I am hopefully going to be able to lay down a few tracks soon and am anxious to hear the difference.

Thanks again, all. I was starting to feel a little stupid for not just going out and picking up a Twin, or similar amp, but I really think the QSCs are great speakers and will ultimately be able to give me what I want.

Maybe my original intentions were not clear. I am primarily looking for more control over the EQ across the spectrum of the piano, while utilizing the QSC(s), which do not really have any EQ capability. Currently, when I use the input on the QSC set to mic and I am using the built in pre on the amp, I get a noticeably fatter and warmer sound, but it is still somewhat muddy overall, and the highs get buried by the mids and low end of the piano. This might also be a voicing issue, as I have found that adjusting the pickup distance in the top octave helps to some extent, and tells me that I probably want to boost the signal first before trying to shape it, either with EQ or effects.

I'm pretty sure that I do not want to attain distortion at the speaker as it is probably not designed to be pushed like that. I am generally more interested in obtaining a "cleaner" tone, with some occasional vibrato/tremolo. At most, I think an open wah pedal would give me enough "crunch" but again, I am uncertain of how this would interact with the speaker. Is this where impedance becomes a factor? The flat frequency response of the QSC seems to work quite well with DSP, and so far is not even that hateful for the Rhodes, and I really think that having the ability to just roll off some of the bass, keep the mids and boost the high end will alleviate some, if not a lot of the muddiness.

I guess I get confused about frequency response. When I search, I find a lot of different curve charts for various speakers, including this: http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/FenderToneCircuit/, which is probably closest to what I am after. It seems that a lot of frequency response can be based on how the signal is EQ'd, but I guess I don't really understand the relationship between impedance matching and frequency balance. The specs for the QSC impedance using the mic pre is 2260 (no units) and is apparently supposed to be balanced. I am not using balanced cables. Would this be part of the solution?

I have some doubts about whether it would be good for the speaker to run a preamp like the VV stereo into it. From the demo video, I can't quite figure out what if any speaker amplification they are using, or if they are just going straight into a board. I suppose I would want to employ a small mixer between the preamp and the QSC. I have also been considering trying a Tine-Bomb in tandem with a small mixer that has a good 3-band EQ, which would also give me control over gain staging and would probably also give me the ability to attain some overdrive at the mixer as opposed to the speaker.

Will it sound like a Twin? Probably not. But, will it sound better, cleaner, punchier and a little more dynamic than it currently does, without having to bring a separate combo out just for the Rhodes?

I guess my 2nd grade teacher was right when she said I'm not too smart.

I finally noticed that the neighboring front springs were yellow (closest to the keys- is this the escapement screw?) and from about there on up a brown, or natural colored on the other (closest to the tine). I switched them around, and that seems to be the solution. When I originally put the new grommets in it must have had a yellow spring on the front  This is #29 (C# below middle C), which the specs says should have 2 yellow springs, but mine does not seem to be set up this way.

That should learn me- look at everything twice before taking it apart. Then look again.

I have considered going with a DI as I have heard others say it can be a good way to go with keys in general and especially when playing out. The Dunlop looks interesting to me, I imagine it would work well with a Rhodes going into it- the ad alone is worth enough to at least take one for a test drive . Still, I'd be interested to hear what it might do to my piano, though when I start getting into that price range I am getting pretty close to a VV stereo preamp, which has also been on my radar for quite awhile. I don't think I've heard anyone say they got one, installed it, didn't like it, and took it back out. I'd be curious to know what kind of mixer you were using. I have considered going that route as well, but most of the smaller stuff like the Mackie, Yamaha, Behringer 2-4 channel mixers don't really give you much in the way of eq, and I don't really need a 6-8 channel mixer. Not yet anyways. 

Thank you both for your suggestions. I think I found this somewhere around here in another thread and was thinking along the lines of something like it: http://www.tasteundtechnik.de/135501.html
Either my German or Dutch is not quite strong enough to figure out how to try one out, or I am not looking in the right places.

The Eleven Rack looks over-the-top amazing, if not well above my price range at this point (though probably in the same league as the TRamp). The Sansamp Blonde looks very interesting, and is a little more in line with my budget. It also looks like they have a fairly standard return policy, so I may just have to check that out. Thanks again.

Hello, All.

After pining over these threads here for too long, I finally pulled the trigger on a 1980 54 MkII. I played my first gig with her the other night using a QSC K12 and it sounded alright. I know many believe that the twin is really the best way to compliment the Rhodes, or just about any tube amp with 2 12s, but I already have the QSC and am really close to picking up a second as I have found a good deal on a lightly used one and would also be using these for my Nord. The problem, as you might have guessed, is the lack of control over the tone- I pretty much get what the Rhodes/QSC gives me, so I am really on the fence here. I have seen quite a few used Twins and Twin Reissues for around the same price as the second QSC I am considering, but it would be really nice not to have to bring out 3 amps/speakers, plus, there generally isn't that much room to set up anyways. I am not that smart when it comes to such things, and am mainly wondering if preamps and powered PA speakers are a bad combo. If anyone out there has any experience using preamps with powered PA speakers, could you recommend any that would give me the same features as a Twin or similar (mainly EQ and vibrato/tremolo), or do I just bite the bullet, go for the Twin, and scrap the idea of running everything through 2 PAs. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Matt

Hello,

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong place for this question.

I just acquired a sweet '80 54. Only has about a dozen or so notes that are really in need of some attention. I set out to give it a proper tuning and after reading several threads on here felt that replacing the screws and grommets would be essential to the process of tuning and voicing.

So, I just got my kit from VV and set out to begin the process. I have a group of notes around C below middle C (#28, I think) that have a "funny" sound to them- sort of a raspy buzz, almost like I'm getting two tones. I just couldn't get a clean tone out of them no matter how I adjusted the escapement or the voicing, so I decided to start with C#. The 1st thing I noticed is that the new washers generally wouldn't fit well around the screws, as was previously mentioned, so I just used the old washers which seem to be a little beefier and still fit well with the new screws.

I set the escapement as recommended using another tone generator bar, then set the voicing to where the tine looked about right in relation to the pickup. Now, the initial tone is better as there is no more buzzing/weirdness to the tone- but I have lost a considerable amount of sustain. The tone dies out after about 10 seconds, whereas the notes around it are still audible after 20 seconds. I played around with the escapement and the voicing screws, but I just can't get that good sustain back.

I am wondering if the grommets are to tight to allow proper resonance. My only other thoughts are that maybe the old springs don't like the new grommets, or that the old washers could be part of the problem, bu I don't want to go any further until I figure this out, so any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Matt

Just watched it and have to say that this is easily the best $10 I have ever spent. I will enjoy this for years to come. Superb job, all the way. Thanks!

Just scored a 54 Mark II and it did not come with a pedal or rod. I bought a pedal from one of the reputable vintage suppliers, but decided to try and save a few bucks on the rod and try this out. WOW!!! You nailed it. The hardware store didn't have a thumb screw that matched the threading on the collar, so I used a regular screw, threaded it all of the way through a wing nut (backwards), and then used another nut to keep the wing nut tight. Came in just under $20 and now I have 2 rods for half the $ of 1. Thanks!

Matt