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Messages - cinnanon

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 The superglue is just for gluing the bump mod.  For gluing felt I have seen people use hide glue, PVC-E glue, 3M yellow weatherstripping adhesive.  I have used PVCE glue multiple times in the past for key bushings, but I recently found out it may be the same stuff as Aleenes tacky glue sold in Home Depot and craft stores for a buck or two for 8 ounces.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: More Questions on Dating a 200A
« on: December 14, 2018, 05:53:56 PM »
So there actually is good information in that thread but i'll summarize.  There are a bunch of places to get dates inside the wurlitzer.  On the keys is a date code.  First digit is the last digit of the year (i.e. 70304192 is 1977).  2nd and third digits of that number are the month, and 4th and 5th digits are the day. The example would be March 4, 1977.  There is also a number stamped on the back of the action on the treble side.  Same format.  The transformer also has an EIA format code from which you can tell the date. The pots also have date codes. The large black chip on the amplifier has a date code.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: More Questions on Dating a 200A
« on: December 14, 2018, 01:01:01 PM »
This thread should give you a starting point.  The serial number does not really have anything to do with it. It will give you a general timeframe, but it is not numerically related to any dates. There are many places under the hood which give more accurate timeframes.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Leveling a Harp
« on: December 12, 2018, 12:22:17 PM »
Probably the greatest mystery of all :P

This will always be there to some effect, but shouldn't be that noticeable. Check your damper regulation (1/32" max  gap between damper arm and felt on damper rail). Yours is probably larger.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Dating a Wurlitzer
« on: December 09, 2018, 01:22:25 PM »
The 8 digit stamp on the keys had the first numeral smeared, both on the bass side of the keyboard and the treble side. The stamp reads X0421370.

My 8 digit stamp code was 40422442 (1964) but the action is stamped 50304055 (1965). Your keys are probably 1964 also.

The speaker only had a part number and manufacturer code stamped on it, the manufacturer being Carbonneau.

My carbonneau speaker reads 651109-1, 719, 417 which probaly 1965 also. What's yours say?

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Escapement Adjustment Post Miracle Mod
« on: December 09, 2018, 07:14:41 AM »
I have a '77 Stage 73 and I just performed the miracle mod. I had the felts on the hammer cams and painstakingly removed those. I installed .054" felt on the .065" bumps with good success. Afterwards, the escapement was really high at both ends of the keyboard. The action felt good, but still sluggish. On top of either aluminum harp support were particle board shims, about .130" thick. I scraped them off and in doing so, achieved a pretty ideal escapement across the board. The action is much more responsive and quick and light like I thought it would be. No hammer bounce either. I did have to adjust the dampers slightly at the bridle strap point. Has anyone else had to remove those particle board shims after a miracle mod? I've read stories of adding shims since the modification supposedly adds height, but I think in these models it is reversed if you do it the way I did.  The white hammer cam felt was much thicker than the pedestal felt that I installed. To me that sounds like the hammer starts off lower rather than higher and also changes the stop-lock position.

The first and last pickups are dead on a Rhodes i'm working on. Seems too coincidental. Could it have been from a voltage spike that burned those pickup wires? I get measurable resistance across all other pickups

Thanks again for your input, this has been extremely helpful and I'll be posting back with results as soon as I get them.

I've heard of a similar problem with an Auto Vari drum synthesizer causing hum while sitting on top of a Hammond A100.  See below:

Owner: So I picked up an AV64 to use with my A100 and now I have a hum problem .I can make the hum go away by pushing the 16' pedal drawbar in or raising the AV64 a foot or 2 above the organ.

The AV 64 is sitting on Ken Rich straddles. Leslie kit is a 6122 to a 122. The 5u4 tube is pulled and I don't use the organ speakers at all, as it's connected like a B3 to the g-g terminals. The AV64 is playing thru a keyboard amp with no noise there The hum comes out the Leslie woofer.

I put put a layer of foil under the AV64 to no avail. Help please

Guy 1: Move the unit as far to the right as it will go. The hum is likely being induced into the matching transformer, which is on the left end of the organ, just under the top.

Owner: You are right. I moved it and it is overhanging the right edge by about 8 inches but the hum is gone. Thanks for the tip.

Guy 2: You said you put foil under the auto/vari. Try grounding the foil to the main amp with a clip lead and see if the hum goes away. My E-100 has foil mounted under the top of the organ which is grounded.Good luck, I hope you find the problem.

Guy 3: The typical tone wheel Hammond has a matching transformer on the upper left side (bass end) that is very sensitive to EMF that can be generated by transformers for example. Many older instruments caused hum when set on top of old Hammonds. The ARP string ensemble was one for example.

Shielding EMF is hard to do. Foil will shield RF but not EMF. The "shielding" needs to be thicker and have properties that in fact shield EMF, like mu-metal.

I had a church with horrible hum coming from the organ. Turns out an electric clock sitting on the left side was the culprit. Simply moving it to the other side eliminated the problem. This is the same reason placing a Leslie too close to the left side will cause hum.

Your damper arms look abnormally bent. They should be mostly straight I believe.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 206a - To chop or not to chop?
« on: November 06, 2018, 01:19:11 PM »
I saw on Reverb a chopped 203W. Front cover came off and revealed chrome legs and a separate sustain pedal. It also revealed latches that allowed the top to detach. Pins for aligning it back up. Selectable between lid speakers, lid+ front cabinet, lid + back cabinet, or front+back cabinet speakers. Any possible combination you can think of. When detached the top played through just the lid speakers. The result is still a heavy beast, but you can't tell it's been chopped.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 206a - To chop or not to chop?
« on: November 05, 2018, 10:10:19 AM »
Unfortunately it already isn't an original 206A... the faceplate is a 200A faceplate. Heck it might even have vibrato already with history like that.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Wurlitzer 206a - To chop or not to chop?
« on: November 02, 2018, 07:03:59 PM »
That the one that sold for $725 in Georgia? Nice buy! I'd chop it safely so you can always revert. If you don't plan on moving it for a while then i'd leave it be.

It's wurlitzer definitely (you may already know that though...) and a pretty good one at that. Digital wurlies sound good played softly like this until you push them, then the digital comes out and they fail IMHO.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: DIY 140B Pickup Circuit
« on: October 13, 2018, 10:46:54 AM »
Borish electronics has just designed a preamp that runs off a 9V battery only and outputs line level. Supposedly the reedbar is only at a few volts potential.

The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Methods for Removing Hammer Cam Felts
« on: October 08, 2018, 09:08:00 PM »
I've searched for the different methods of removing hamming cam felts and came up with nothing. Based on some videos it sounds like denatured alcohol is best to use over acetone or naptha. I am OK with that. I'm looking more for the process. I have successfully de-felted a few sets of hammer cams with rubber gloves, denatured alcohol and some Wypall wipes (think paper towels on steroids). The result is a beautiful residue-less finish on the cams but it feels like i'm scrubbing the floor with a toothbrush.  Does someone have a method they don't mind sharing for an easier way to do this? I'm thinking dunking all 12 cams into a "pool" of denatured alcohol (only the bottom portion where the felt is located). It seems like the more I can saturate the residue the easier it comes off. Heck even a toothbrush might be something to try? This is my first rhodes and first bump mod. It's a 77 stage 73. If elbow grease is the answer im OK with that too. Just curious if there are easier methods.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Some DIY reflections
« on: August 13, 2018, 03:45:07 PM »
I was listening to some early Ray Charles versions of What'd I Say and I can hear some slightly out of tune notes as well as one or two that are a little dead-sounding. It is that Wurli sound and action that makes it so distinct from the Rhodes.

No two wurlitzers sound alike, this is what makes them unique! I believe the greatest contributor (after complete regulation and tuning/voicing) to tonal differences/anomalies lies in the shape of the solder pyramid. Behind that, imperfections in the aluminum harp castings that make some notes/ranges resonate duller/brighter than others. Every harp has a resonant frequency that, when hit, absorbs certain frequencies/energies from certain notes. Even the wood base can absorb/resonate certain frequencies. Again, all minor audible differences and also my opinion.

Did you wire a three-prong cable or is it still two-prong? If it's two-prong, did you try reversing the leads? I'm sure you tried this but i'm not sure.

If I remember from UncleDougs videos, the hum that varies with volume is a different issue than the hum that is constant with volume change.

Are the heater wires twisted also? UncleDoug on youtube has some great stuff on tube amps. He explains stuff so well my wife could understand it.

I remember breaking down the symptoms piece by piece.  In my 140B, instead of using the volume pot, I just wired in a jumper across Hot-Wiper and a resistor equivalent to the pot across Wiper-Ground to eliminate the Pot causing noise.

Is the amp quiet without the reedbar RCA plugged in? I had a nasty hum on a 140B once. The amp was fine until I plugged in the reedbar. I also have a 112 so this interests me.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Some DIY reflections
« on: August 06, 2018, 01:47:25 PM »
When the reed spins during final tightening, It's definitely _something_ that's gotten rough between the surface of the washer and the top of the screw, and it's usually after it has been tightened and loosened a bunch.  Maybe the chrome has been damaged.

I second this and will add that I noticed the chrome flaking off of the underside of the washer on the "bad" screws.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Higher Octaves Have No Sustain
« on: August 06, 2018, 12:26:30 PM »
Am I missing anything?

Here are my findings from a post long ago.

Also, make sure the reed screws are tight.  Some people like to tune by loosening the reed screws, pull out the reed, and re-tighten to pitch.

A note on my suggestions in that post, I believe my findings were due to manufacturing variance in the reedbar harps.  I happened to notice the reed didn't extend out over the razor-sharp reedbar edge like others I've seen. Filing it back slightly fixed some sustain issue in mine.

Also, to diagnose reedbar twist, loosen (one-at-a-time) one of the four screws that fastens the reedbar harp to the piano, retightening in between tests. You may notice the dullness shifts around the treble section of the reedbar, i.e. a note that sounded dull now rings like a bell and another note now sounds dull that didn't before.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Some DIY reflections
« on: August 03, 2018, 11:50:53 AM »

Cinnamon, replace the flattened washer or the screw? What will be the result? My understanding is that the washer is actually conical, introducing a bit of spring to it, such that the amount of tightening can change the pitch, as well as help stabilize the reed when tightening.

I don't think the conical nature of the reed screw washer was intended for tuning reasons (though it can affect tuning slightly) because sustain will be affected. I also don't think reed screws should be tightened so tightly that permanent deformation of the conical washer will take place.

I do believe it was intended to be conical though.  Seems like it puts more pressure across the reed base and holds better.  Every time I see the reed start to turn when i'm close to fully tightened, I replace the screw/washer assembly and that dilemma goes away (the washers don't come off of the 200 series reed screws). When the reed spins during final tightening, in my mind what happens is the conical washer is mashed flat and no longer puts a wide area of pressure on the reed, only close to the center where the screw is. A bad reed screw may even affect sustain.

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Some DIY reflections
« on: August 02, 2018, 02:32:05 PM »
The reed screw washer has flattened. Replace the screw.  Works every time for me. It's annoying otherwise.

The clip won't play on my iPad. It could be a bad volume pot.

Hah I was thinking you meant your iPad had a bad volume pot!

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Vintage Vibe Wurlitzer Reeds
« on: July 19, 2018, 04:34:42 PM »
Did you preserve the pyramid shape when filing?  That can’t be stressed enough. Reeds must be tight too. Did it sound good before you got to final pitch?

The Wurlitzer Electric Piano / Re: Case support bolts/music rack
« on: June 11, 2018, 05:34:37 AM »
I think that was the point. I find starting with the bolts set at a total height of 1-3/8” is a good starting point.

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