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#1
Amps, Effects & Recording Techniques / Re: Leslie 60 speakers
Last post by Seanfir - Yesterday at 02:09:17 PMJust landed a pair.
I'm likely going to restore and rebuild them right away before they stop functioning, as there are no shortage of non-working/incomplete examples...
There's a lot to them, so they're not for the faint of heart, or for anyone that doesn't have their own dedicated Tech! That's my strong suit, as I am the technician for probably half of the Midwest it seems lol!
Leslie was owned by CBS at this point but it doesn't mean they weren't still Leslie! They were cranking out new stuff and this is no exception in that it's what the previous poster said; something that has not been superseded by effects boxes as of yet, because the effect gotten is gotten by rather decadent and extremely complicated analog means... something along the lines of a Univibe, but instead of LDR's, (or light dependent resistors, phasing) they use an actual motor to turn a variable capacitor that creates both a pleasing vibrato/phasing effect and amplitude-based trem effect.
The space generator was probably one of the first truly close approximations of what a Leslie does, and was actually made by the company of the same name, originally to ad the said effect to the reverb units on their full sized Leslies ( which let's face it, is silly!)... though the univibe was also a special and similar product. These both offer the sound and attitude of an effect that typically can only be gotten in the physical realm, electronically, and in doing so can enhance things that would not be enhanceable in the real physical world!
That's where the magic really comes in. By literally phasing the sound against itself to create the pseudo Leslie effect, they go a little bit further than the Leslie ever could, giving you a nice swirly phase sound as well as the amplitude/volume effect of tremolo.
I'm also going to check out the speakers in this and see if they can be improved upon in any way, although I've never noticed them lacking; it would be nice to see if they have any more potential.
I'm likely going to restore and rebuild them right away before they stop functioning, as there are no shortage of non-working/incomplete examples...
There's a lot to them, so they're not for the faint of heart, or for anyone that doesn't have their own dedicated Tech! That's my strong suit, as I am the technician for probably half of the Midwest it seems lol!
Leslie was owned by CBS at this point but it doesn't mean they weren't still Leslie! They were cranking out new stuff and this is no exception in that it's what the previous poster said; something that has not been superseded by effects boxes as of yet, because the effect gotten is gotten by rather decadent and extremely complicated analog means... something along the lines of a Univibe, but instead of LDR's, (or light dependent resistors, phasing) they use an actual motor to turn a variable capacitor that creates both a pleasing vibrato/phasing effect and amplitude-based trem effect.
The space generator was probably one of the first truly close approximations of what a Leslie does, and was actually made by the company of the same name, originally to ad the said effect to the reverb units on their full sized Leslies ( which let's face it, is silly!)... though the univibe was also a special and similar product. These both offer the sound and attitude of an effect that typically can only be gotten in the physical realm, electronically, and in doing so can enhance things that would not be enhanceable in the real physical world!
That's where the magic really comes in. By literally phasing the sound against itself to create the pseudo Leslie effect, they go a little bit further than the Leslie ever could, giving you a nice swirly phase sound as well as the amplitude/volume effect of tremolo.
I'm also going to check out the speakers in this and see if they can be improved upon in any way, although I've never noticed them lacking; it would be nice to see if they have any more potential.
#2
Amps, Effects & Recording Techniques / Just got the hard to find, FUN...
Last post by Seanfir - Yesterday at 01:49:26 PMGotta love these things when they work! I'm going to recap and go over both units in this stereo setup.
As far as Rhodes setups go, I think they did for Rhodes, what they did for Hammond, by providing excellent and capable amplification, with the highest quality effect, gotten in a way that few would even ASPIRE to, using a physical motor to drive a variable capacitor phasing/vibrato/trem effect... as only the brains at CBS/electromusic could do.
That, being said, these units are HARD to find in ANY CONDITION, much less fully functional!
Often times the motor gives out or one of the many parts inside fails and the effect is lost... there are a lot of parts that can fail, and also are difficult to replace. This is seen by the large number of these out there that are not working for whatever reason!
But when they're all there, you've got the king of Fender rhodes amplification!
No fender product ever did what these guys did, giving both an analog phase, that sounds very smooth and subtle, and the ability to change it on the fly. The intensity is preset, so best to have that adjusted before you play, or modify it as some have done. It's worth the trouble to track down a working original.
I can't say it's worth it to find and restore a non-working one.
I've been brought a few, as repair jobs, as i am a well known vintage tech, and I never managed to get a broken one back to life which is one reason I got this one. So at least I will know what's going on in there and have an actual working model to compare. Because the schematics and information that is out there is scant and very few technical rundowns of these exist to the point where you can actually fix a non-working one at least. I'm going to write down everything that I see on this to better equip me next time I have to work on one if I ever do. They really are something special though if you want to get that perfect roads vibrato/ phase sound. But Leslie has a way of making those perfect combinations exist in the physical world. And also in a way that people are still trying to replicate in various pedals. But most fall short because what they did was by today's standard a rather intense and decadent attention to detail where cost and size where of little importance in attaining the final result. Got to love those guys even after CBS got them! LOL
As far as Rhodes setups go, I think they did for Rhodes, what they did for Hammond, by providing excellent and capable amplification, with the highest quality effect, gotten in a way that few would even ASPIRE to, using a physical motor to drive a variable capacitor phasing/vibrato/trem effect... as only the brains at CBS/electromusic could do.
That, being said, these units are HARD to find in ANY CONDITION, much less fully functional!
Often times the motor gives out or one of the many parts inside fails and the effect is lost... there are a lot of parts that can fail, and also are difficult to replace. This is seen by the large number of these out there that are not working for whatever reason!
But when they're all there, you've got the king of Fender rhodes amplification!
No fender product ever did what these guys did, giving both an analog phase, that sounds very smooth and subtle, and the ability to change it on the fly. The intensity is preset, so best to have that adjusted before you play, or modify it as some have done. It's worth the trouble to track down a working original.
I can't say it's worth it to find and restore a non-working one.
I've been brought a few, as repair jobs, as i am a well known vintage tech, and I never managed to get a broken one back to life which is one reason I got this one. So at least I will know what's going on in there and have an actual working model to compare. Because the schematics and information that is out there is scant and very few technical rundowns of these exist to the point where you can actually fix a non-working one at least. I'm going to write down everything that I see on this to better equip me next time I have to work on one if I ever do. They really are something special though if you want to get that perfect roads vibrato/ phase sound. But Leslie has a way of making those perfect combinations exist in the physical world. And also in a way that people are still trying to replicate in various pedals. But most fall short because what they did was by today's standard a rather intense and decadent attention to detail where cost and size where of little importance in attaining the final result. Got to love those guys even after CBS got them! LOL
#3
The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: 1979 Janus preamp problem ...
Last post by Seanfir - Yesterday at 01:25:46 PMWell, I don't think anyone would have been able to help with this thing. While not too terribly complicated it was different enough from the other schematics to where I couldn't figure out what the voltages should be or if I was getting correct ones or not. I think I've talked them into getting one of the Avion units which are made kind of locally here. And I have a lot of respect for those guys anyway.
#4
Parts, Service, Maintenance & Repairs / Jordan parts list?
Last post by onthegreenline - January 19, 2025, 11:01:09 AMDoes anyone have a parts list for the Jordan amp & preamp? Chasing some weird distortion on my '67 piano and I've already isolated the piano and speakers to verify they're ok. Time to dig in to the electronics.
I have the schematic drawings from the service manual but that's it. I can already see that somewhere along the line one of the big 8000uF caps on the power amp was swapped for a 6000uf unit. The drawings are a bit tough to read in places and I'd like to make sure I've got everything right.
I have the schematic drawings from the service manual but that's it. I can already see that somewhere along the line one of the big 8000uF caps on the power amp was swapped for a 6000uf unit. The drawings are a bit tough to read in places and I'd like to make sure I've got everything right.
#5
The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / 1979 Janus preamp problem at b...
Last post by Seanfir - January 16, 2025, 04:53:50 AMI started working for a major venue in St Louis this week, maintaining their stable of vintage gear...
And I thought this would be easy, fixing the vibrato on this Rhodes.
Power supply is fine. Ground and cable are good. I recapped it straight away, taking care to use NP caps for the 1uf... and when I turned it back on, it had vibrato. And it stayed on for an hour until I was satisfied.
So then I put it back together.
No vibrato. I checked to make sure nothing was grounding out on the cover, and no. The circuit is oscillating on one side of the 10uf, but not the other. Another thing... this one does NOT match the late era schematic for this pre... that one lists a pair of 22/25 caps by the LDR units... which aren't present. The numbers and everything are off... it's way off from the older schemo... so I don't really know what to do. I told them that we probably should get a pre from Avion, since they're local to our area, but I HATE that this one stumped me. I changed out the transistor, the op amps on the far right, pulled a bunch of resistors, all tested good, tried putting a ground jumper on the switch, but realized that in THIS ONE, the ground appears to be floating, and I wasn't aware that LED'S could work on negative voltage. Do they??? Because the power led was running on -15v...
And the 20uf cap had polarity markings on the board, but is there a chance it could be BP?? The transistor had negative voltage on one leg, and positive on the other... I was really hoping to find a schemo with voltages, after a while!
I did everything... I pulled the whole board out, flexed it, re ran solder traces... was there another preamp before the transition?
This was the 3 knob, 2 slider one, but the late era schematic was not accurate. It kills me that it was working until I put it back together. I reread all the posts in here, tried for two days. Then just to prove myself, fixed three leslie cabs in the last hour. Lol. I hate this thing! Lol. Any pointers??
And I thought this would be easy, fixing the vibrato on this Rhodes.
Power supply is fine. Ground and cable are good. I recapped it straight away, taking care to use NP caps for the 1uf... and when I turned it back on, it had vibrato. And it stayed on for an hour until I was satisfied.
So then I put it back together.
No vibrato. I checked to make sure nothing was grounding out on the cover, and no. The circuit is oscillating on one side of the 10uf, but not the other. Another thing... this one does NOT match the late era schematic for this pre... that one lists a pair of 22/25 caps by the LDR units... which aren't present. The numbers and everything are off... it's way off from the older schemo... so I don't really know what to do. I told them that we probably should get a pre from Avion, since they're local to our area, but I HATE that this one stumped me. I changed out the transistor, the op amps on the far right, pulled a bunch of resistors, all tested good, tried putting a ground jumper on the switch, but realized that in THIS ONE, the ground appears to be floating, and I wasn't aware that LED'S could work on negative voltage. Do they??? Because the power led was running on -15v...
And the 20uf cap had polarity markings on the board, but is there a chance it could be BP?? The transistor had negative voltage on one leg, and positive on the other... I was really hoping to find a schemo with voltages, after a while!
I did everything... I pulled the whole board out, flexed it, re ran solder traces... was there another preamp before the transition?
This was the 3 knob, 2 slider one, but the late era schematic was not accurate. It kills me that it was working until I put it back together. I reread all the posts in here, tried for two days. Then just to prove myself, fixed three leslie cabs in the last hour. Lol. I hate this thing! Lol. Any pointers??
#6
The Fender Rhodes Electric Piano / Re: Post your Rhodes pics and ...
Last post by Seanfir - January 16, 2025, 04:30:00 AMI fixed a few Rhodes as a tech and sold a few locally when a guy called me one day and asked if I wanted to see a real beauty. He sent me a Pic, and with the top off, I didn't even think it was a Rhodes! It had standard piano hammers, but I was curious and later that night i had my 1965 sparkltop! I fixed all of it's various problems, but I'm a tinkerer, and have molded it several times, only to go back to the original lineup, minus the bad ideas, the hammers replaced with hybrid early wood and plastic hammers, neoprene replaced with felt tips, strike line fixed, action rail regulated. Keys mostly leveled, felts removed from the hammers and new vintage fet and new transistors in the rest of the preamp. Also the only surviving Oxford speaker died hours after I got it home, so now I have some vintage alnico speakers I made myself, from my vintage speaker recone supplies... I put new tolex and grill cloth on it, shined up the metal, replaced all the bad tines with raymacks, and added the miracle mod, though it's in a different place on this old thing! Nobody had any advice on these! When I called up vintage vibe for a few suggestions, all the kid said was "wait, did you say '65?"
"Yes"
"Really??"
"Yeah."
"Whoah".
There's a video of my first restoration, when a friend who loves sparkletops came over to pick up a repair... I love his reaction. I worked on those high notes for months... spent a fortune on old tines. Lol. Worth it!
"Yes"
"Really??"
"Yeah."
"Whoah".
There's a video of my first restoration, when a friend who loves sparkletops came over to pick up a repair... I love his reaction. I worked on those high notes for months... spent a fortune on old tines. Lol. Worth it!
#7
Buying / Looking for Rhodes Sustain ped...
Last post by LarsUK - January 15, 2025, 10:29:36 AMHi all,
just acquired a Mk2 Rhodes but it didn't have the accessories.
Hence looking for legs and sustain, preferably UK or Europe.
Thanks
just acquired a Mk2 Rhodes but it didn't have the accessories.
Hence looking for legs and sustain, preferably UK or Europe.
Thanks
#8
Preamps, Modifications & Upgrades / Re: Knowledge base of early Rh...
Last post by spave - January 14, 2025, 10:56:32 PMInsectoidControl has a few videos on their channel going over some mods to improve a 1964 sparkletop. Might be worth a watch to see if they help you at all. https://www.youtube.com/@InsectoidControl/videos
#9
Preamps, Modifications & Upgrades / Re: Knowledge base of early Rh...
Last post by Seanfir - January 14, 2025, 07:13:48 AMThe cool reaction from a friend I was doing some work for. I knew he'd freak when he saw the pristine sparkletop in my KITCHEN. LOL. His reaction on the high notes is priceless. That took me a long-*** time to get. When I wrote "time" just now, my phone changed it to "tine" 3 times... when for YEARS it would do the opposite when I wrote "tine" lol.
https://youtu.be/Ql5iZpx3s3E?si=AEiqozXlKOI9Ki8t
https://youtu.be/Ql5iZpx3s3E?si=AEiqozXlKOI9Ki8t
#10
Preamps, Modifications & Upgrades / Knowledge base of early Rhodes...
Last post by Seanfir - January 14, 2025, 07:00:06 AMI've been toiling with my 65 sparkletop for a few years, and after a few abortive attempts, have managed to keep it relatively in tact, but gave up on the early hammers in favor of getting a set of early wood/plastic ones.
The minuses. The 65 I have, was all original. And unplayable! While the tines survived, the hammers were all deeply grooved, and there was factory felt on both hammer butts and key pedestals. This made for an impotent key dip of a few millimeters, and often not even striking the time, or just as likely, the hammer getting stuck on the tine. Basically a muffled ad hoc 73 note clavé... *give or take ten non moving keys*
The preamp worked/works, but even with the jfet replaced with new old stock, is still a bit noisy.
The speakers were only one original. The bad news was one was still there! But it blew up under low volume tests early on.
In my piano there seemed to be originally four Oxford 12-in speakers. And originally they were all on the side of the player facing towards the opposite side if you were facing the audience they would be facing you. I think this was part of the original design as there was a diagonally cut rectangle in the baffle board of the front which would allow the sound to kind of ambiently leak out of the cabinet which I think they originally conceived would be more piano-like in experience. I don't know if that's true but it's an interesting idea! In latter years the speakers were converted to two on a side and that seems to work out okay. I did restore the entire amp section and the entire Electronics although I haven't replaced the smaller signal transistors in the original as of yet but I'm considering that to cut down on the actual noise levels. I've also considered using a specialty made jfet preamp that will run on the 24 volt original power supply and a aftermarket vibrato all connected to the original knobs and circuitry without permanently altering anything because this will offer a lot more versatility in the studio and live with a ton more of EQ possibilities.
I've gotten rid of the rubber tips and ordered all felt ones and I'm kind of curious what methods I should use, in order to get the most out of this as far as sound and strike line and what if any shims I should use on the actual hammers to achieve this. I was getting a lot of strange harmonic problems on the higher notes but adjusting and positioning seemed to cure all of them as they seemed to be perfectly good examples of raymack tines.
The miracle mod or speed bump was a kind of Hit or Miss thing at first and some of the tutorials in here helped me get a better idea of what I should do next first of which will be to get a jig made to equalize all of my key pedestals for length and level surface. This being after my first attempt at a speed bump LOL. I just like to maybe see if anybody out there has any information as to what you can actually do to make these things sound as good or better than they did originally. I'm hoping for much better. I'm hoping for something that's unique and special. But I would go for the Abbey Road sound! LOL
The minuses. The 65 I have, was all original. And unplayable! While the tines survived, the hammers were all deeply grooved, and there was factory felt on both hammer butts and key pedestals. This made for an impotent key dip of a few millimeters, and often not even striking the time, or just as likely, the hammer getting stuck on the tine. Basically a muffled ad hoc 73 note clavé... *give or take ten non moving keys*
The preamp worked/works, but even with the jfet replaced with new old stock, is still a bit noisy.
The speakers were only one original. The bad news was one was still there! But it blew up under low volume tests early on.
In my piano there seemed to be originally four Oxford 12-in speakers. And originally they were all on the side of the player facing towards the opposite side if you were facing the audience they would be facing you. I think this was part of the original design as there was a diagonally cut rectangle in the baffle board of the front which would allow the sound to kind of ambiently leak out of the cabinet which I think they originally conceived would be more piano-like in experience. I don't know if that's true but it's an interesting idea! In latter years the speakers were converted to two on a side and that seems to work out okay. I did restore the entire amp section and the entire Electronics although I haven't replaced the smaller signal transistors in the original as of yet but I'm considering that to cut down on the actual noise levels. I've also considered using a specialty made jfet preamp that will run on the 24 volt original power supply and a aftermarket vibrato all connected to the original knobs and circuitry without permanently altering anything because this will offer a lot more versatility in the studio and live with a ton more of EQ possibilities.
I've gotten rid of the rubber tips and ordered all felt ones and I'm kind of curious what methods I should use, in order to get the most out of this as far as sound and strike line and what if any shims I should use on the actual hammers to achieve this. I was getting a lot of strange harmonic problems on the higher notes but adjusting and positioning seemed to cure all of them as they seemed to be perfectly good examples of raymack tines.
The miracle mod or speed bump was a kind of Hit or Miss thing at first and some of the tutorials in here helped me get a better idea of what I should do next first of which will be to get a jig made to equalize all of my key pedestals for length and level surface. This being after my first attempt at a speed bump LOL. I just like to maybe see if anybody out there has any information as to what you can actually do to make these things sound as good or better than they did originally. I'm hoping for much better. I'm hoping for something that's unique and special. But I would go for the Abbey Road sound! LOL