Sustain pedal problems.

[tdintbl]

Finally got a stand for my hulking 88 (sorry, it IS an X stand, only thing at GC sturdy enough to hold the weight) and I'm having problems getting my sustain pedal to work. I get it set up correctly, with enough tension, and tighten down the handscrew and I get one succesful push of the pedal, afterwhich something somewhere slips and the pedal becomes worthless until I reset it again. Any tips people? Thanks.

[willedsmithmo]

Have you had a look at the plastic bushing just inside the hole for the sustain rod? If it is worn, the pedla might kinda work the first push, but then just get stuck if the bushing is bent or worn etc

[Swatkins]

So does the inner/upper pedal rod (the extendo piece) come loose, and you have to reset and retighten the wingnut?  If so, it's probably stripped.

Or does it come out of the hole in the rhodes even though it stays tightened?  Then check the bushing, and also just make sure that it's firmly in place and is not crooked or angles or anything.

Sorry, I guess I just don't know exactly what your problem is.

[tdintbl]

First of your two possibilties. The inner rod doesn't retract much, but enough that I can't use the pedal a second time.

[Swatkins]

My first inclination would be to check out the threaded part on the screw and see if it's been stripped.  If it has, head on down to a hardware store and pick up a replacement wingnut, and you should be good to go.

[neland]

mark II rhodes

well, i might have an aswer for you...or at least be able to identify the problem. in my rhodes (a mark II), the sustain rod goes into the hole and pushes on a wooden peg. this wooden peg sits between the pivoting dampener plate/board  and the rod. it's an awful design. the little peg tends to get stuck as it's not held to firmly in place. it'll get lodged between things and sit in there stuck.

for reference, the pivoting plate/board acts live a lever. it is pushed from one side (the bottom rear/ the rod and peg of the sustaion pedal mechanism), it then pivots and presses down on the flexible dampeners. typically these dampeners mute the tine after key release and only let up on the tine when a key is being pressed, but when you press the sustain pedal, it pivots the board and pushes all the dampeners down at once, hence the sustain. pretty basic actually. i've included crappy microsoft paint pictures to illustrate. see below.

my problem:
the wood peg is too short and too thin and wiggles around in the hole and gets stuck and lodged. temporary fix in next post.

i'm trying to fix this poor design with something new. if anyone has other ideas then let me know. prehaps this is something that was added after, and not part of the original design. i only have my rhodes to go on. can't say anything for any others as i've only woked on mine.

my terrible illustrations of how this sustain mechanism works:

[/img]

[neland]

temporary solution #1
take off harp, take out dampener plate, remove peg altogether and have sustain rod make direct contact with the plate by exending the rod more (when you put it back in), bypassing the stupid peg altogether .

drawback.: moving the pedal to certain angles causes the rod to slip on the plate, hence no sustain at all. moving the pedal back to another angle will usually fix this. plus, it's not so great to have metal on metal (metal rod on metal plate) and can cause bad sounds inside your rhodes. not my preferred method, although i tried it.



temporary solution #2
take off harp, take out dampener plate. then expand size of peg for less wiggle. the problem being that the peg wiggles around and gets lodged sideways and every other which way, getting a peg with a larger diameter (i.e. a thicker peg) is one way. also might help to have the peg at it's max length from top to bottom (meaning it sits on top of the rod in the little hole and extends as close to the dampener plate as possible).

the way i'm currently achieving this...masking tape. i've wrapped it around the peg, increasing it's size so that it doesn't slide around in that hole as much. moving the sustain pedal around a bit doesn't mess it up as much anymore at least.

drawback: you're using masking tape to fix something in a rhodes piano. you tell me the drawback here. getting a bigger peg made would be an ultimate fix, however this would take some time for measuring and whatnot. until this thing pisses me off again to this point, i'm not inclined to goto a hardware store requesting a peg with pins to be made. then again, if i have to take this harp off one more time, i'm liable to replace the peg with a human hand from one of the guys that designed this thing.



then again, it sounds like i'm not addressing your problem at all. this was just mine. and if it's a rod problem, i'd just say fix that part or buy a new one (wingnut or whatever the guys above suggested), and be glad you don't have to crack your rhodes open every time like i've been having too.

maybe this'll help some other people who have had the same problem as me, tho.  :wink:

[MikePeterson]

If I remember correctly, the inside of the hole should be lined with felt. It should be a loose, but not sloppy fit.

I never liked the flat surface at the bottom of the peg. I would probably try drilling a conical hole in it using a countersink. This would guarantee centering.

In the original design, centering is done by the plastic bushing. If it is missing, or its hole has become enlarged, centering would not proper occur.

I would not remove the peg and use the rod directly without making a conical receiver firmly attached to the damper rail.

If I wanted to get really serious, I would replace the wood peg with a Delrin rod.

And yes, I believe the original design had many weaknesses, but it definitely worked better when it was new, and all the parts fit correctly.

[neland]

there is felt there. it's a bit loose, the peg is still extremely small to be sitting in there. the masking tape, no matter how jerry a fix, is working, at least for now. i think a larger peg would make a much bigger difference. using thye rod directly hitting the plate isn't as helpful as certain angles are prone to rod slippage on the plate. the peg gives the needed width for the rod to intereact with the plate.

and by the way, i was just kidding about wanting your hand to replace the peg. honest. :lol:

[Jtrunzo7743]

Any results with the lubricant? I'm having similar issues and am about to do the WD-40 deal tomorrow to mine.

[defspace]

Wow, I was going to come here to ask about my sustain pedal woes, and you have the exact same problem!

I'm using the VV sustain rod, so I feel confident I can rule out an old, stripped wingnut. However, in my case, it is the telescoping rod that slips (perhaps something else does also).

What are the steps you guys would go about to diagnose and cure this?

FWIW - 1971 Stage 73.

EDIT: Hah, I just noticed this is an old thread. Well, these pianos are old and obviously are susceptible to the same ailments as ever

[Max Brink]

Can you tell me more about the symptoms? What is slipping? The rod itself or the rod within the socket with its connection to the dowel?



The best solution for almost all Rhodes sustain pedal problems is to convert it to a Wurlitzer pull sustain mechanism with the Rhodes pull sustain pedal converter by Ken Rich Sound Services. Like the rest of Ken's products it is manufactured with professional use in mind and is a very well built product. It is easy to install and replaces the dowel system all together.


Countersinking a route for the sustain rod to extend into is a fine solution that can add some stability to the dowel design.

[defspace]

Can you tell me more about the symptoms?

Hey there, sorry to get back to you so late. I've been wrapped up with a new job/move for the last few weeks. Hopefully I'll have a chance to get things sorted out in the next month or so.

As far as I can tell, the telescoping rod slips back into itself. I get one good push, then that's enough to overcome the clamping force exerted by the wingnut-style clamp on the telescoping rod. I've marked the inner rod with a marker to verify this. The force required to push up the damper rail is more than the clamping force of the rod.

Thanks!

[squarebubble]

I would take the inner rod out and tighten the wing nut so that the collet closes.  Don't over do it as you will have a hell of a time getting the inner rod back in. Once the inner rod is back in, extend it out and tighten the nut. Then turn it over and push with all your weight onto it into the floor. If the rod doesn't slip then you're good to go. If it slips, just repeat the steps until it doesn't.

[Fred]

Indeed. While you're at it, make sure there is no dirt/debris, rust, excess plating, etc. in the collet or on the threads of the wing nut and rod.

[defspace]

You guys nailed it!

I also added a bit of grease to the wingnut threads to increase clamping torque. I'm glad it was such a simple fix!