What makes a Rhodes, Wurli or other EP sound "clean" or "open" and not "muddy"?

[SwamiRob]

Pretty new to EPs having picked up a Pianet T which I've been tuning up a fair amount, and have some success making sound pretty lively and dynamic with a nice valve amp with a lush spring reverb, some new sticky pads, and putting it through a preamp and an expander to widen the dynamic range, and plenty of faffing about with the action and pickup position (i.e. as close as possible to the times so they can still vibrate...).

One thing I'm having a problem with (other then when I've been tuning it discovering that the notes increase in pitch as they sustain which I'll ramble about elsewhere) is that the lower the note, the more fuzzy, muddy, nasal sort of sound there seems to be, which is a shame given the clarity of the higher notes.

I like a bit of dirt and drive, but there's something inherently choked about the sound of it, and this seems to be the case with alot of EP clips I've heard. Pulling the pickups back alot on the lower notes helps, but at the expense of them being obviously alot quieter, and to balance this out you'd obviously lose alot of the attack of the higher notes from the reduced output.

The fuzzy phasey compressed sound of alot of EP clips I've heard is really cool in some contexts, but I'm really after something nice and "open" sounding for what I'm doing with it. Really like the Pianet, but just thinking for the future if I look into getting a Rhodes or Wurli (sort of leaning toward Wurli being more suited to what it's gonna get used for at the moment) but have only heard a few convincing clips of either - which I'll post because they both sound awesome to me despite not being of massively high quality. Heard a few more clips where it's only the bass notes that seem to clip and fuzz out but only found a handful where it seems there's a reasonable amount of detail all the way down, although to be fair they both seem to clip a little still.

Is it a matter of setup and what amp is being used as anything else? The clips that seem to be straight DIs sound the worst to me, and the onboard Wurli amps sound quite nasal to my ear too.

Not slating either of these keyboards by the way, love the classic sounds of both in old rock music or funk or whatever, just that's not what I'm wanting to do with an EP and need something a little more full range.

Fender Rhodes Executone

https://youtu.be/mERZStIqdXY

Just for comparison the kind of sound I'm not after! The Rhodes don't seem as bad for it, and can't find any online clips of them sounding totally undynamic and fuzzed out through the whole range. Overall it seems that the pickups on all EPs don't seem to deal well with bass notes.

https://youtu.be/1j6xpzzEkx8

[pianotuner steveo]

The Wurlitzer clip through the tube amp is what gives it the overdriven sound. This is why early Wurlitzers sound different than later-they are basically the same instrument, but with totally different electronics. I really like the tube amp sound when I play songs like Pipeline, or early Ray Charles songs, it makes them sound more authentic. There could be other factors too, such as leaky caps, bad reeds, etc.

[SwamiRob]

Cool, I thought it might be something like that. It's more the bass notes that I'm intrigued by I guess, because I've heard quips where the middle and high notes of pretty much any electric piano sound nice and clear. It's just the kind of distortion that's those on board amps I think that sounds a little unpleasant to me in some contexts. sounds very appropriate for some music though like I said before.

I can't really find any clips of Wurlis being played out of their aux outs, so can't really judge if the base notes on that come out clean through a clean amp. But it seems like the Rhodes, Pianet, and a lot of other electric pianos, seem to have muddy compressed sounding bass notes intrinsically even when played clean. I don't know if it's something to do with how the pick-ups are wound, but as predominantly a bass player, it has very much the sound of playing a bass through an amp with no headroom (I know it's nothing to do with amplifiers but it sounds squashed in a similar way).

[pnoboy]

There is nothing inherent in the design of the Rhodes or the Wurli that produces distorted, compressed, or saturated bass notes.  Muddiness, to some people could mean lacking in harmonics.  It's a term that is used imprecisely, and therefore is hard to interpret.    The Wurli typically produces bass and low-mid notes with more harmonics than the Rhodes and therefore may be more to your liking. 

[sean]

Even with the best of amps and speakers the Pianet T is not huge champion of dynamic range.  You can't really expect the sticky pads to do as well as a hammer.  I think even the pad against anvil arrangement in a clavinet provides more dynamic range than the Pianet sticky pads.  Hitting the Pianet keys as hard as possible is not proportionately different sounding from hitting the keys medium hard.  I have a hard time making a Pianet sound as expressive as a Rhodes, Wurly, or that keyboard-thing with long wound strings stretched over an iron plate.

But the sticky pad is just the nature and beauty of the Pianet.  I think the bass notes on the Pianet T suffer more than the other notes.  I think a little more aggressive attack might give them more clarity, and it would be great if they had more punch.  But sticky pads....

Hmmm... maybe we need sticky pads that could be told "Okay, now, let go of this note really hard!"


If you are enjoying your Pianet T, just wait until you have a Wurly or Rhodes to tinker with!  On a Rhodes, if you don't like the sound of the bass notes, you can adjust the pickup position, strike line, escapement, hammer tip hardness, and tine position against the pickup tip (timbre).  The Rhodes is very responsive to how hard you hit the keys, so you get pretty effortless control over the dynamics.  If you want to further isolate the bass notes (so you can apply specific equalization, envelope follower, or other effect), then you can split the harp.    (See https://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=4730.msg52770#msg52770)

The Wurly has a "real" piano action, so it is wonderfully expressive as well.

Maybe the better control of the dynamics might not clear up all your expectations for tonal perfection and clarity - it might still sound muddy or nasal.  Then we must blame the physics of the Pianet tine... just a floppy piece of steel.  Or blame the inductive nature of the Pianet pickups. 

I think you will eventually get the Pianet T set up as best as possible, and you will get used to its characteristic sound. 

Sean

P.S. - Most pianists have two hands, so maybe you could play the Pianet with your right hand, and another instrument with your left.  That would be another way to get the sweet sound and great clarity of the pianet high notes, and not the wonkiness of the pianet low notes.