How to save a bad tine?

[guizmo]

Hi everybody!

I post here because I have a problem on one note of my fender rhodes.
If you listen to the sample, you'll hear the problem.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pDso46kCJmFI6b1wkIU1vzrKiWOs2FEz/view?usp=drivesdk

Note that all the others notes are perfects, so 70'ish.

Changing the tine would be the last solution, all the tines and tonebars are originals from 1972, and a new one will sound different of the fender era ones.

I dismounted the tine/TB assembly and the TB seems ok, I re-tightened the tine, left the spring, clean the tine with 000 steel wool, and nothing changed.

I noticed that the tine front edge isn't square and that the bottom is flattered, like shown in the picture.

Do you think it would be interesting to make the front edge square with a bench grinder (like I make usually on new tines to have a perfect finish) ? I read that a square edge is very important for the sound...
Do you think it can solve my problem or not ?

I'm hesitating because I don't want to grind too much and make the tine too sharper without being able to make it flatter with the spring...

Thanks

[sean]

I personally don't believe that having the tip of the tine be clean and square makes any difference.  My testing reveals no difference.  Jagged haphazard tine ends clipped with dykes sound great.  Sharp square tine ends cut with a diamond mototool blade sound great.

It sounds to me like your note is being damped by the hammer tip.  Raise the tine away from the hammer tip.
I think even the worst of grommets would not damp the tine like that.

Sean

[sean]

One other thought... could the square tine block on that note be contacting the wooden harp frame?  If the tine is slanted drastically downward, maybe the tine block is rubbing against the wood?  I think that is less likely than the hammer tip being blocked against the tine.

Oh, I guess I didn't ask... is the bridal strap broken?  Does the damper work on that note?

Sean

[guizmo]

Thank you !! I'll check all that !
Effectively, I haven't thought about all that possibilities ! Tine touching the wood, hammer damping the tine...

For the grommets, I thought about, but they are all originals, all the notes have a perfect sustain, the 2 grommets of this note are identicals to the others so... but I'll try to change this 2 ones to see if it changes something.

Bridal strap ? Sorry I don't understand (I'm french), I tried to google it, but I only found wedding dresses ^^

[dnarkosis]

Bridle strap 

Number 16 in this illustration:

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/fig2-1.gif

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/org/manual/ch2.html

[guizmo]

Ah ok  I see now !
I don't think it's broken but I'll check too!

[pianotuner steveo]

This topic is blank...

[guizmo]

I know... I thought that it was a problem only for me because I had replies but it seems to be blank for you too.
When I logout I can see the topic. But when I log in, it's blank but I can see it when I press the REPLY button...
I contacted a moderator the first day I posted, but I had no reply. I wanted to delete it and post it again...

Edit : it seems to work again

[guizmo]

I just checked everything, and all is ok.

- tine doesn't touch the harp wood
- the bridle strap is ok
- the hammer tip doesn't touch the tine after the hit
- the damper works fine

Here's the pictures of the tine, what do you think ?

[mvanmanen]

I usually square off the ends of my tines after cutting them...this one does not appear to have been nicely cut...nor is the rest nice and cylindrical as you mentioned previously....I think you should replace the tine

[guizmo]

Thanks !

I gonna square off the tine to be sure, try with others grommets and I'll see.

I'm a bit ennoyed to change the tine because I don't know if it will change the sound...
I have changed some tines on later models but not on my 71... the tine is the tone generator, and the 71 sound is very specific so...

[Tim Hodges]

I've seen that burr on the bass tines of an 88 before (pre 75 if I remember correctly)

It's good practice to make sure the ends of the tines are straight so I think you're right in trying that out first before replacement.

Any chance we can have a sound clip?

Also what # tine is it?

[pnoboy]

I personally don't believe that having the tip of the tine be clean and square makes any difference.  My testing reveals no difference.  Jagged haphazard tine ends clipped with dykes sound great.  Sharp square tine ends cut with a diamond mototool blade sound great.

It sounds to me like your note is being damped by the hammer tip.  Raise the tine away from the hammer tip.
I think even the worst of grommets would not damp the tine like that.

Sean

I have to agree--tines with square ends and tines without square ends sound the same as far as I have been able to tell.

[Tim Hodges]

I've found that in the mid range it gives a raspiness to the note 

[guizmo]

Thanks for your answers !

I gonna try to square off, I'll be sure like that !
Tim, the tine is #35.
There's a sound clip on my first post, the google drive link.

Thanks

[Tim Hodges]

Thanks for your answers !

I gonna try to square off, I'll be sure like that !
Tim, the tine is #35.
There's a sound clip on my first post, the google drive link.

Thanks

So there is, sorry me being lazy! From the sounds of it I don't think you're going to have much luck with that tine.

I do have some spare 1974 tines and an entire set of 1971 tines but I can't part those out as I'll be using them in an upcoming restoration.

I did see this listing for #34. You could cut off a mm or so to make it for #35.

https://reverb.com/item/5782912-vintage-fender-rhodes-later-raymac-tines-1969-1971-c-34

[guizmo]

Thanks for your answers !

I gonna try to square off, I'll be sure like that !
Tim, the tine is #35.
There's a sound clip on my first post, the google drive link.

Thanks

So there is, sorry me being lazy!

No problem ^^

[pnoboy]

I agree with Sean--in my experience,  squared tine ends do not change the tone produced by the tine as far as I have been able to tell.

[guizmo]

I squared off the tine, now is perfectly square (picture).

But, it measures 60,9mm instead of 61,9mm (like written on my bedside topic https://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=9647.0). It seems to be better to have a smaller tine with the spring near the edge, so, will see (my rhodes isn't at home so, I'll maybe check next week... rrrrr).

I verified, it produced a D with the spring in the position shown in my picture.

[pianotuner steveo]

Assuming that the tine to the left of this one works fine,have you tried moving the bad sounding tine to the note next to it to determine for sure if the problem has to do with the hammer or the tine? This will instantly tell you if the problem is the tine itself. If the tine sounds fine when swapping, then it is either an escapement issue, or a mounting issue like mentioned above. It still could be the grommets, so don't just instantly buy a new tine if the problem still seems to be coming from the tine itself.

When troubleshooting, eliminate all of the possibilities, starting with the free solutions.

[guizmo]

Yes, I thought about changing the tine position. I'll try as soon as possible !
Thanks

[guizmo]

I made the tests and I think it's definitely the tine.

The bad tine is #35, and now it's squared off and clean.

I tried new bushings -> nothing
I swapped with the #36 tine, and the #36 in position of #35 sounds good.
I didn't put the #35 on #36 position, didn't want to screw/unscrew to avoid damaging the hole.

I think, I'm good for a new tine...

[pianotuner steveo]

That sounds right...

[guizmo]

Problem solved !!!    A friend of mine gave me a #34 early 1973 tine (attachement). I cut it as a #35 and the sound is perfect.
The sound is exactly the same as the other tines. My piano is a late 71, early 72 so the tine is almost from the same era.

So, to answer to my topic question "How to save a bad tine?", if all is OK : tine tightened on the TB, cleaned, squared-off, good grommets, damper mechanism OK, hammer tip OK... Maybe, it's impossible to save it!