Author Topic: 200A action and sustain issue > is it sustain pedal or sluggish action, or both?  (Read 650 times)

Offline tblizzardo

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Hi!

I just recently bought a Wurlitzer 200A and overall its sounding pretty nice - but there are still a few problems that need fixing ...

The problems I currently have seem to be related to the sustain pedal and overall action of the keys. The problems are outlined below and I have provided a video for each to facilitate diagnosis:

1. Some of the keys do not sustain when the pedal is down (problematic keys can been seen in the video 1)

Video 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4CrwKlmawE&feature=youtu.be

2. The highest notes are always sustained, even when sustain pedal is not down (Seen in video 2)

Video 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZDwfYpXtB4&feature=youtu.be

3. When the sustain pedal is applied, all of the keys on the entire keyboard shift downwards slightly (as demonstrated in video 3)
    which affects the way you have to play the instrument. With just the lightest pressure from a finger the keys shift down which
    seems odd to me. It also feels like one has to hit the keys much harder to get a good sound out of the instrument while using
    sustain VS not using sustain ... I think these two problems are related --> is this normal?
   
Video 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exfZUIez1Po&feature=youtu.be


Apologies if there are already posts with similar queries. Also, apologies if these questions seem trivial - I am new to electric pianos but am keen to start solving my own issues rather than relying on technicians fixing them for me.

Thank you in advance!

Offline pianotuner steveo

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Video 1: looks like the sustain pedal needs to be adjusted at the end that goes into the piano. You can see what is happening if you open the top. The dampers are likely not lifting high enough.

Video 2: This is perfectly normal, there are no dampers in the high treble in any piano, electric or acoustic. The reason is because the reeds,tines,or strings are so short there, that the notes fade away quickly.

Video 3 may be related to video 1. The individual dampers may need adjusting on the inside. If the top were open we could see more. There needs to be a tiny gap at the back of the dampers (about a business card thickness) between the adjusting screw and the grommet. BE CAREFUL adjusting these screws. It is very easy to snap the wooden stickers (the long thin wood) behind the action. You should hold the stickers with needle nose pliers when turning the screw.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 03:33:47 PM by pianotuner steveo »
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

Offline OZDOC

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If you take the cover off the upper mechanism (see photos in Classic Keys - pages 101 to 104) you will find that the dampers are individually adjustable for every note.
But first check that the pedal connection to the underside of the keyboard has not been tightened down too far - pulling all the dampers too close to their reeds.

The top 5 notes on a Wurli are intentionally undamped - see photo Classic Keys pages 103 and 104.

I'd check the attachment adjustment of the pedal at the underside of the keyboard to ensure that the pedal is not drawing the dampers down too soon.
Co-author, "Classic Keys: Keyboard Sounds That Launched Rock Music"

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Offline tblizzardo

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Thanks for the comments and suggestions!

I lifted the lid as instructed and can see how the sustain mechanism is not functioning properly (see video 1)

Video 1: https://youtu.be/JRCgLKKnVlg

It is clear that the right side of the sustain mechanism is not lifting as well as the left side (see video 2)

Video 2: https://youtu.be/_AbhFsIKI4c

I tried adjusting the gap at the back of the dampers between the adjusting screw and the grommet, but it did not help solve the issue - the issue seems more connected to the lifting action of the sustain in my opinion, but please have a look at the video and let me know what you think.

I wanted to try adjusting the damper connecting rod on the underside to see if that helped but unfortunately I do not currently have the right nut driver to get into the gap.

Let me know what you think I should try next :)

Offline OZDOC

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Good demo videos. However, while this is demonstrating the problem, we can't see enough detail to understand why the bass section of the dampers are behaving differently to the mids and uppers. Unfortunately I'm currently in a location where I can't get to my 200A to see what might be loose or broken to produce the effect you're showing. Some video of the audience side of the mechanism may reveal the problem. Steveo - do you have a 200A handy that you can examine to see why one half of the damper mechanism may de-couple from the other?
Co-author, "Classic Keys: Keyboard Sounds That Launched Rock Music"

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Offline pianotuner steveo

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Not handy. It's in my attic at the moment.. sorry...
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...

Offline OZDOC

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I don't have the perfect photo on my computer, but the one attached suggests that what you are looking for is looseness between the two sides of this yoke that lifts the two halves of the damper mechanism. Check the fasteners associated with holding the two sides of this mechanism together. both sides should move in concert. Check that the pivots at the extreme ends of the two halves of the damper mechanism are in place and have no slop.
Co-author, "Classic Keys: Keyboard Sounds That Launched Rock Music"

Learn about the book: http://www.classickeysbook.com/
Follow us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/ClassicKeysBook/

Offline pianotuner steveo

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After watching the new videos, I agree. There is something that is not quite right with the bar that lifts the lower section of the treble side. The bass and higher treble seem to be lifting almost enough. Check what David (ozdoc) said, there seems to be something wrong in that area. Not below like you were thinking. I don't think I've ever had to adjust anything on the bottom side other than the cable, and that may or may not need adjusting. Those individual adjustments at the grommets in back are for when random dampers are not lifting high enough, Not groups of dampers.

The next thing I would do is to check to see that the gang of treble dampers are seated in their brackets correctly, especially right where the problem is happening. (Just to the right of center when facing the keys) There could be something wrong at that bracket.
1960 Wurlitzer model 700 EP
1968 Gibson G101 Combo organ
1975 Rhodes Piano Bass
1979 Wurlitzer 206A EP
1980 Wurlitzer 270 Butterfly Grand
2004 Hammond XK3
2009 73A Rhodes Mark 7
2009 Korg SV-1 73
2017 Yamaha P255
2020 Kawai CA99
....and a few guitars...