Is this the way to record my Rhodes? (soundsamples attached)

[rhodeshammond]

Hi Rhodes-lovers,

I own a Rhodes suitcase 73 and I've been looking for a while to find the right sound.
Also I am looking for the best way to record the my Rhodes.
Do you think the attached sound files are good-sounding? Or is there a better way?
Do I get better results if I am using a DI or other (pre)amp? Or is my audio-interface or preamp on my Rhodes or speakers doing the same thing?
As you see.... I don't know much about it, so I would really appreciate your help.

Please see in the pictures attached the signal chain I am using.
I'm guessing the 'Accessory 1'  is the direct harp signal? And btw I am using a Behringer UMCHD404HD audio-interface.

Thank you in advance!

edit: I see that I made a mistake in the drawing of the second signal chain 'From suitcasespeaker'.
The signal that goes into the speaker preamp is coming from the power amp output of my Rhodes in stead of the accessory input (so the same as image 3)

[Will]

Hello,
I am not a pro, just a "Rhodes lover" so I go for it.
I listened to your samples with a pair of good headphones and here is what I found.
In the first sample (harp > audio interface), I hear a hum.
Make sure you activate the "INST" setting on your input channel and use a short cable between harp output and channel input. Move any electrical appliance away from your setup. As a last resort, disconnect the laptop charger and record on battery. Yes, you can try to use a DI box there in between if you can get one. It will add galvanic isolation on the signal path.

However I hear no hum at all on the second sample. The sound is clearer too but maybe because the recording has a higher level. In my opinion, you have a good enough solution to record your Rhodes here. Plus it allows you to use the Rhodes tremolo and effect loop.

Yes, why not use some other preamps ? It is a game changer. Personnaly, I often connect...
harp >>> tube preamp with EQ >>> mixing table (via a symetric XLR cable) >>> sound system or headphones.
I also add guitar pedals (compression, reverb) before the preamp with TS cables. It gives me a bigger sound. And when everything is bypassed, I have my original Rhodes sound... great too. This option is mono and forbid the use of the Rhodes tremolo.

Some other ways to record a Rhodes :
- Put a microphone in front of one cabinet loudspeaker to catch the suitcase sound.
- Put two microphones in front of two cabinet loudspeakers (one each) for tremolo (and stereo).
- Connect the harp output to a guitar amp (as for a stage piano) and put a microphone in front of the loudspeaker.
Those options can be tidious and expensive as the right microphones, room acoustic treatment and technical skills are required for a satisfying result. You can give them a try if you can, it is always an interesting experience.

Most important, the inner piano adjustment. Again I am not an expert but I really like yours. I wish mine were as fine. You have a nice raw material to start with, for recording, mixing and playing with effects.

Keep us in touch.

Will

[rhodeshammond]

Hi Will,

thanks for your reply.

Good to hear you think the output is good enough.

about the harp > audio interface.
Yes, I used the INST switch on the audio interface. The use of a short cable is a good suggestion, what I will try! Also what you suggest about moving away electrical appliances.
So a DI-box does something different than an audio interface?

From suitcasespeaker
I see that I made a mistake in the drawing of the signal chain. The signal that goes into the speaker preamp is coming from the power amp output of my Rhodes in stead of the accessory input. I think that's the main reason why this record is without hum.

Your other suggestions to use a different preamp after the harp
Interesting chain. What tube preamp do you use? And why are you using a symmetric XLR cable?
And am I right that 'accessory 1' output is the direct harp? Or do I need the RCA output in the inside of the Rhodes Piano?

About recording with mics.
Also nice options. I have two Shure SM57's which I can use for this experiment. Not owning a guitar amp yet, although I have two Rhodes Janus 1 speakers, so I can experiment with recording two stereo speakers.

You see I am relative new to this subject, so sorry for all my questions.
I really want to thank you for your help.

Jaap

[Will]

Hello,

So a DI-box does something different than an audio interface?

The DI-box allows to pass from the "unbalanced" technology to the "balanced" technology, which is more effective to carry an audio signal on long wires. You can find many articles online about those technologies and their difference. A summary...

Unbalanced technology :  The audio signal is carried by two wires : the audio signal lead and the reference lead (also used for shielding). A cable with mono jack connectors / Tip and Sleeve (TS) is typically used in this technology. Eg : An electric guitar to its guitar amp. This technology is sensible to interference. The longer the cable, the more interference the signal can get. Typical length : less than 2 m.

Balanced technology : The audio signal is carried by three wires : audio signal (+) , audio signal (-) and reference lead (also used for shielding). A cable with XLR connectors is typically used in this technology. This technology is much less sensible to interference. Long cables can be used between appliances, on a live stage or in a recording studio. Typical length : 1 m to ... 30 m.

For example, my unbalanced cable from 'accessory 1' output to DI-box is 60 cm (2 feet) long and my balanced cable from DI box to mixing table is 8 m long. See picture :
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EtesG8RzDNvKZ3nb8

An other DI-box feature : it isolates the two appliances. This is usually achieved by the use of an audio transformer, so that there is no direct electrical connection between those two, avoiding ground loop, which is a source of hum.

What tube preamp do you use?

I don't have enough experience/knowledge to recommend one or an other... I found a useful post from "The Real MC" here :
https://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=10355.msg57720#msg57720
You may also find good advice on Amps and recording techniques on the forum : https://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?board=3.0

And why are you using a symmetric XLR cable?

My preamp output is balanced (=symmetric) with XLR connector, as required.

And am I right that 'accessory 1' output is the direct harp? Or do I need the RCA output in the inside of the Rhodes Piano?

The harp pickups are connected to the RCA and the RCA to "accessory 1". So you can conviniently use "accessory 1".

[rhodeshammond]

Thanks Will for taking time to answer my questions! It all is very clear to me!