Pyramid's effect on tone/bark?

[spave]

Hi everyone,


I am working on getting my 1977 Wurlitzer 270 properly setup but I am running into issues with the bark/dynamics. The problem is that nearly the entire keyboard is full of dull notes with little dynamics and zero growl or bark. There are a few notes that sound great but most don't. I have tried adjusting the letoff, pickups, reed screw tightness and even tried moving the harp to alter the strikeline but nothing has fixed the dull mellow sound. I have tried swapping reeds with adjacent notes and it seems like the dull sound follows some of them so I am curious if that could be the issue? Two of the best notes are the low B's which each seem to have better solder pyramids than their neighbors. Could it be the solder pyramid shape that is causing the other notes to be so dull and mellow? Many of the pyramids have been unevenly filed and some appear to have chunks taken out of them.

I have read a few different posts claiming the pyramid shape can change the tone but the descriptions on the effect have been vague. Does anyone have an exact idea on what an uneven pyramid actually does to the sound? I've included a few pictures of B 15 and C 16 to show the difference in pyramid shape. B 15 is on the left in each picture and is one of the better sounding notes on the whole keyboard. The C is isn't terrible compared to some of the other notes but it lacks the dynamics and "bite" that the B has when struck hard.

Also, any other theories on what could be causing the dull sound would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[pianotuner steveo]

IMHO, I know the shape is supposed to affect the tone a bit, but lack of sustain could be related to how/where the Reed mounts to the Reed bar. The washers are concave, and the hump side goes up. Also, cleaning around the mounting holes and the end of the Reed with a light oil sometimes helps. Dirt/corrosion here affects the sustain.

Also, the 270 isn't known for having great "bark"
The non A 200s allegedly have the best "bark"

[spave]

lack of sustain could be related to how/where the Reed mounts to the Reed bar. The washers are concave, and the hump side goes up. Also, cleaning around the mounting holes and the end of the Reed with a light oil sometimes helps. Dirt/corrosion here affects the sustain.

Thank you Steveo, your diagnosis is correct. I just realized that I only tested reed screw tightness awhile ago on one or two notes which was also before I adjusted the letoff. It turns out that nearly every reed screw is overtightened on the harp. It seems like either the factory or the last person to tinker with it used a power tool to put the screws on more than hand tight. After loosening a few it seems like those notes are getting some of their dynamics back. I am going to loosen all of the overtightened ones and readjust the letoff and see where that gets me.

There are one or two that still have short sustain that I will try cleaning but I think those are just "bad reeds".

Steveo- Do you know if there were any internal differences between the 270s and other late era 200a's? I have read about the inherent mellowness/build quality issues of the 270's but nobody seems to mention the same about other late 200a's. Also, do you know if the keysticks are longer like with the 700s vs the 140s?

Thanks!

[spave]

Update:

I loosened all of the over tightened reed screws and while it did improve the sound slightly, it did not improve them to the level I was hoping for. The pyramid has some effect on the tone but my guess is that it is only a small part of it. I am going to start a new topic with a video to show the sound issues I'm having to see if something else is the main cause...

[cinnanon]

Those pyramids look fine. Some of the earlier models have excellent symmetric pyramids and equal tone across the keyboard. I have heard 77 was a year of bad quality.

[rockinpapy]

Interestingly, I have exactly the same problem but maybe my recent experience will help. I've got a 200A, 1980 and I've removed the action from the piano and have it on the bench in a jig. One of the things I discovered was that there were two reeds missing (21 & 22). I recently ordered them (complete with new screws and washers) from our UK supplier of Vintage Vibe parts. They are supplied without the solder pyramids and you need to make your own. VV sell a mould for this but I didn't want to pay for that with only two to make so I made my own using an adjacent reed as the model. They turned out really well and I rough-shaped them before the tortuous process of fitting them. First problem - tinning the reeds is difficult to get right and this needs to be perfect before trying to attach the pyramid. First, the base of the pyramid needs to be perfectly flat. Attaching the pyramid to the reed is the really tricky bit - I stuck the weight on the reed with flux, held it in a croc clip then heated the underside until the solder just flowed at the base, then removed the heat. The pyramids seem firmly attached and have been rough-filed in preparation for final tuning later. Here's the thing, I re-mounted the two new reeds and one sounds nice and clear and rings like the others. However, the other one sounds exactly as you've described - dull! No volume and no sustain. The ONLY difference I can think of is that the pyramid on the 'dull' reed is somehow attached imperfectly. The washers are the right way up on both and I've not overtightened the screws. So maybe it's a dry/imperfect joint thing causing the pyramid not to be completely stable, thereby damping the oscillation of the reed. Or maybe there's an air bubble in the pyramid. I'm going to investigate further and post the results when I get time. BTW, all my other reeds sound good and there are only a few with 'perfect' pyramids. Most of them are a mishmash of shapes but it seems to make no discernible difference to the sound. Sorry for the long-winded post but I hope it's of interest and we can find out the cause of the problem.