Suitcase speaker replacement worth it?

[AA]

I recently had the amp and pre amp redone in my suitcase 73, it's one of the Peterson pre amp with effects loop models from late 1974.
Problem I'm having is the sound out of the cabinet is a bit dull and lacking "crispness" (think fender reverb bright switch) the output to my headphones sounds great tho. Will there be any benefit to putting some new speakers in? Or is the high frequency definition hard capped by cabinet/ speaker placement relative to player?
Right now it sounds best when quiet but very dull when turned up to a normal volume. I do have it a few inches from a wall so that could be making it worse but I can't do anything about that with my space constraints.

[The Real MC]

Fender put crap sounding speakers in those suitcase cabinets.  When I bought my sparkletop piano it was missing the original electronics and speakers.  I play guitar as a 2nd instrument and own various speaker cabinets with various guitar speakers.  After experimenting with the various guitar speakers, I fitted the suitcase cabinet with four Celestion 75w speakers.  Much better tone and they aren't expensive.  I don't bother with the original Peterson preamp (great stereo tremolo but dull tone), I bought the RhodeStar preamp and use a Tubeworks MosValve amplifier (another guitar gear) to drive the suitcase cabinet.

Why should guitar players have all the fun?

[AA]

Hi thanks for the response, do you remember which celestions you used?

[WurlieNewbie]

AA - I feel your pain, man. After years of owning a stage and having suitcase envy, I finally got myself a beautiful 1972 suitcase with the original Peterson preamp. I got everything serviced, regulated, and brought up to specs and the results were... underwhelming. Very bassy/boomy, no sparkle or bark, even with the treble knob all the way up and the bass all the way down. And just like you, it sounds amazing through headphones but through the speakers? Bad.

I do think the acoustics in the room along with the rear speakers hitting the wall could be a factor but again, like you, I don't have a ton of options to relocate it in my home. Also, I think what everyone says about the suitcase is true -- speakers aimed at your knees are never gonna sound as good to the player than to the listener.

I tried swapping the Peterson with a more modern preamp and that definitely helped (sucks that it means the Peterson is therefore unusable). I also tried an EQ pedal with the Peterson in the hopes I could get more treble and lose the mud. The pedal got rid of the mud but wasn't great with helping the treble and only added more noise. So the only thing left is to replace the speakers - which I'm reluctant to do unless I'm sure it could really make a big difference.

If you do replace yours and are happy, let me know. This whole experience has left me wondering why I had suitcase envy for so many years when my stage Rhodes through studio monitors on either side of my head sounded gorgeous.  If there are any suitcase owners reading this, I'd love to understand what I'm missing.

[AA]

That pretty much describes my exact experience... right now I need to do more research but i think I'm either going to go with Weber alnico blue dogs for character, or I was considering trying to find some full range speakers (maybe celestion f12 x200) as I think what I'm really after is being able to hear the overtones clearly and those would primarily fall outside of the typical guitar speaker range. My "suitcase" is the piano part of my old stage 73 fitted into the suitcase piano body/cabinet and with how I have it voiced (slammed pickups, almost a saw wave like quality when played hard) the best sound I've been able to get has been direct into the mic pre amps of a mackie vlz pro 1402, then into some dt1990 headphones. So while I think guitar speakers would have a more classic sound and be best for a typical Rhodes voicing, I really want that fuzziness that seems to happen when 10khz+ is allowed to shine. As for speaker placement relative to the player, it definitely has some effect, but at the same time my Wurlitzer 700 has the same sort of set up and I don't really have any complaints on the clarity of its sound so I think it should be possible to make something work. +1 for the full range speakers is that I still have and use a twin reverb for Rhodes sometimes so it would be more practical to have something that can more accurately reproduce the signal from the Rhodes than chasing character. I did sell my stage 88 a couple days ago so I think I will be getting some speakers soon even if the price tag on 4 of them hurts, will let you know how it goes.

[WurlieNewbie]

I searched older posts and Ben Bove who restores tons of Rhodes in LA and knows his stuff (check out his youtube video with Dr. Mix if you haven't seen it already) recommends Jensen C12N speakers. Could be worth checking out. They're cheaper than the Weber blue dogs. My cabinet has Fender Utah speakers which I know nothing about - my tech told me he thinks the original owner of my Rhodes put them in at some point because they're not stock.

And for what it's worth, last night I did an acoustic test and moved my suitcase from my spare bedroom (where it currently lives against the wall) into the middle of my larger living room. When I sat down to play it, I didn't hear a substantial difference. BUT when I had my wife play it and I sat down on the couch with the rear speakers facing me, it was night and day.  It makes me think the suitcase sounds I've been hearing all these years on records and videos, etc aren't really indicative of what the actual player hears when he's sitting behind the piano with the speakers blasting his knees. That's the fear I have with replacing the speakers - how much of a difference will it really make for the player?

[AA]

Interesting, today I reluctantly carried my twin reverb up to the room I have the suitcase Rhodes in and positioned it as closely to my knees as possible, as well as pointed at the wall and behind me, mine has wheels so I was just rolling it around to different positions, no matter where I place the twin, it still sounds allot livelier and less dull than the suitcase even with the treble knob at neutral and bright switch off. This could be due to the open back cabinet dispersing the sound differently, not sure, the speakers in my twin should be just as old as the suitcase (both 1974) but I'm not sure what model either of them are, suitcase has a blue fender sticker, and twin has a brown/silver one. If it weren't for the stereo trem, and the fact I got the suitcase for cheaper than a stage usually goes for around me even with repairs included I'd be feeling pretty regretful right now, I still have some hope for new speakers tho.

[AA]

Even with the twin in this position I'm still getting more bark and note separation/ clarity. really focusing on what I don't like about the suitcase amp, it seems to have a boost in the higher midrange that is fatiguing to listen to and drowns out the sparkle. It also seems to have more "ugly" distortion than the twin, maybe because I have the pickups so close and am giving it a stronger signal than it was intended for. The twin actually sounds good enough at normal volumes to just leave it tucked away there. I think I'm gonna go with some new speakers anyways but my main concern is weather I should just buy another twin or maybe a super reverb and run them from the suitcase preamp, or get speakers first and grab another amp later, kind of want to do both but that will have to wait.

[WurlieNewbie]

(Funny how this has just become a private chat between the two of us now.)

Anyway, here's something to think about... the Peterson preamp. I pretty much gave up on it and am just using an external modern preamp and it's so much better now. More treble, more bark, less mud, less boomy bass. I think the Peterson has a lot of fans on this forum but also a lot of detractors. Sadly, I might be in the latter. It just doesn't sound great on my 1972 - and I've had the preamp recapped and serviced. Again, it sounds awesome through headphones, but not through the cabinet speakers.

So before you go down the new speakers route, try hearing your suitcase through a newer preamp that can give you more clarity and sparkle.

[AA]

So I am going to go with the new speakers, it's a risk I'm willing to take and I really want that full 20khz range for the overtones, will let you know how they sound when they're in. but after some thinking I'm guessing at least 50% of the problem (at least in my case) is comb filtering from the back speakers reflecting off the wall causing a slight delay relative to the front speakers (from the players perspective) that could create notches in relevant frequencies to the Rhodes tone. I'm going to make a crude custom preamp that disables the rear output after I get some 4 pin din connectors, and if this works how I intend I may look at modifying the original pre amp to be front speakers only when the tremolo is switched off, part of what led me down this line of thinking is that I hear less weirdness with the trem on full depth at a slow rate. If anything it'll be a fun little project since we got a pretty big snow storm where I live and I'm stuck inside.

[AA]

New speakers in (the full range celestion ones I mentioned) I do really like them, the sound is a decent amount richer and I can turn up the volume without it sounding like crap, bass response also sounds more solid and less boomy. The distortion I was hearing was definitely from the old speakers. While it's not quite as detailed as with headphones, this is now allot closer and good enough for me. Not sure if it's a $1000 cad upgrade, but I'm happy I spent the money. If you like the bit of crunch the stock speakers have I wouldn't go with these as they sound super clean. Also something worth mentioning is the top octave is a bit quieter with the eq neutral but can be evened out with some treble boost, this is kinda the fault of me originally voicing it on a twin reverb which has a pretty big top boost so I could just put the pickups closer if I didn't like the sound across the whole keyboard with treble tuned up.
Also altho I thought it was wired front back instead of left right, it was LR, I switched it to front back and honestly it sounds the same but with a bit more depth to the tremolo now, added depth makes sense to me but I'm not sure why I was originally hearing it as front back. this will also allow my rear speaker/Chanel 2 mute preamp mod when I get the parts.