Thunking key (harsh sound, no sustain)

Started by Dan Belcher, April 05, 2006, 03:03:44 PM

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Dan Belcher

Hey all, I've had this problem for awhile now, but it's gotten worse and worse in the month and a half I've had my piano.  I've got a 1978 Rhodes Mark I Stage 73 which sounds generally fine except for minor things (I need to get new grommets, I should probably replace the hammer tips, etc.).  However, the A key just to the right of the Rhodes logo on the namerail sounds absolutely terrible.  I've tried adjusting both tonebar adjustment screws and I've swapped out the grommets with the ones from another key and it made no difference in the sound.  I suspect it might be the tine, but I really don't know.

Here's a soundclip showing the exact problem:
http://www.mysharefile.com/v/6231085/rhodes_thunk.mp3.html
(Left click to download)

Any ideas?
Proud owner,
1978 Rhodes Mark I Stage 73

hrees

Take the tone generator assembly for that note out of the rhodes and pluck it with you finger (hold the tine right by your ear). If you're getting no sustain then change the tine. That way you can be sure it's not grommets.

tjcombs

Check and see if the hammer is hitting the tine square on. The hammer corner might be hitting the tine and that would cause a bad sound.

Also, try swapping out the whole tone generator assembly (tine, grommets, screws, tonebar) and see if that helps, if so, it could be the tine.
"Melody is what the peice is all about" - Henry Copeland

matt.musicman

Are you playing the opening line to Josie?  ha ha nice
Matt

Dan Belcher

Quote from: "matt.musicman"Are you playing the opening line to Josie?  ha ha nice
Indeed I am.  Very fun tune to play actually, sounds great with the MXR Phase 90 stomp box.  Some pounding chords in the stanzas, some free-flowing and fancy-sounding lines in the chorus.  8)

It seems the center of the hammer is striking the note basically (hell, it's probably more centered than 90% of the hammers on my piano!), so it's not a problem of slipping off the side.  I do have that problem to some degree with a few keys, however, in the bass side of the piano.

Later today, I'll take the note out and pluck the tine and see if it's working well.  I don't have any tools other than a screwdriver handy (I have the piano in my dorm room at college!), so I can't fully take it apart and inspect.
Proud owner,
1978 Rhodes Mark I Stage 73

iwillwitness

hey check the pickup. it could be touching the pickup when you touch the key. that's what happens to mine all of the time. you can take a small wrench and move the pickup back. make sure to test the key while moving the pickup so you can ensure getting a clear, loud sound without clanking.

hrees

If your rhodes does that then it is set up wrong. Either your pickups are too close or your pickup screws aren't correctly tightened.

Dan Belcher

Okay, I took the entire tone generator assembly out and swapped it with another one a couple of times.  I also tried moving the pickup back and forth.  Nothing cured it.  The problem is definately in the tonebar, the tine, or something else in that assembly.

I tried plucking the tine while holding it right next to my ear and it sounded and sustained just like the other ones did when I tried that with other notes.  Therefore, I don't think it's the tine itself.  However, I cannot get the tone generator mounting screw to come loose!  (Using a 5/16 wrench as suggested in the service manual even!)  Therefore, I can't take the tine out and test it on another tone bar.

Anyone got any new ideas?  I'm feeling rather stumped by this.
Proud owner,
1978 Rhodes Mark I Stage 73

parallelpark

I have a few notes that sound like that too.  I've replaced the grommets and hammertips, and got some improvement, but the clank has come back.  I'm starting to think that I need to adjust the striking line as well.

hrees

If the tine sustains as any other note when removed from the piano the problem is nothing to do with tonebar or tine. The note could have a slightly off strikeline. Try sliding the harp back and forth and see if it makes any difference. Either that or your damper/escapement settings are wrong. Either way it is very simple.

blonde_b3

If the action is correctly regulated for that key and damper then it must be the hammer tip or the way it is striking the tine.  I have had hammer tips that look identical to their neighbours but would give a dud sound = you could try changing the hammer tip or shaving the striking edge of the old one with a razor blade, not too much just enough to renew the surface.

blonde_b3

The other thing to check is that the hammer tip is of the correct hardness = I have found 'soft' ones that have been incorrectly placed in middle octaves, which will not give the correct sound.  This happens when somebody 'fixes' the piano without reference to the service manual.  Dig your fingernail into the hammer tip to feel if it is the same hardness as its neighbours.

mimicthis

Quote from: "blonde_b3"The other thing to check is that the hammer tip is of the correct hardness = I have found 'soft' ones that have been incorrectly placed in middle octaves, which will not give the correct sound.  This happens when somebody 'fixes' the piano without reference to the service manual.  Dig your fingernail into the hammer tip to feel if it is the same hardness as its neighbours.


hey i am having the same problem... i looked and saw that the hammer tip was a differnt tipe than the others around it .... i am willing to bet this is your problem.

Dan Belcher

Yeah, it doesn't really feel all that different to the touch, but it might be a bit softer or harder than its neighbors.  I'm going to have to replace all my hammer tips anyway sometime soon, so I guess I'll have to get around to that ASAP.  If it's not that, I'm stumped.  I reset the strikeline and installed new grommets recently--the piano sounds a bit better in general with more even sound and a louder bass end, but it didn't do anything to help this evil sounding A.
Proud owner,
1978 Rhodes Mark I Stage 73

mimicthis

hey i was messing with all the hammer tips last night and the guy who replaced them got two mixed up... a higher note had a softer hammer tip and my evil c and a harder one. switched the two and im golden.