Uneven dampers

[Zcott]

Hi guys,

I just picked up an old Mk1 Rhodes which isn't in perfect condition. I've already got around to tuning most of it, but some of the dampers and hammers aren't totally even. How can I go about fixing this?

Picture:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a96/zcottovision/rhodes.jpg

I hope you guys can help me out....no doubt this will be the first question of many...!

[dnarkosis]

I'm not trying to avoid the question, but adjusting dampers means adjusting a great many other things on the keyboard as well. You can probably find something by searching the archives, probaby on the Yahoo Rhodes group as well.

The first thing to do is download and read the service manual. That's always the place to start.

I also copied the following a while back from one of the groups; I think John Della Vecchia wrote it. In any event, it may get you started:

> Dampers are one of the hardest things to get right
> and are often overlooked by people who would charge
> you lots of money to work on your piano.
> So, until you have a lot of experience, approach them
> with a lot of respect and a little trepidation.Or else
> leave them alone.
> I always approach dampers as a 3 part procedure.
> First set adequate escapement. One tech suggested 1/2
> inch which sounds about right. You want to have them
> pull down only as far as necessary to allow the tine
> to sustain completely unimpeded. I usually set up 3 or
> 4 across the keyboard and then set all the rest  to
> the same height using the pilots as a guide. When
> finished they should all be in a straight line. Try to
> bend only the tip while supporting the rest of the
> spring with your free hand.
> The next step is to set the sustain. All of the
> dampers should pull down at the same moment in unison.
> Easier said than done. Now we have to bend the spring
> at the point where it contacts the sustain rail. Of
> course, bending here will change the escapement
> adjustment that we just did. Back and forth until both
> adjustments work.
> The third step is the one which you inquired about.
> This entails removing the sustain rail and ever so
> lightly pressing each damper at the base. Here you
> want to relieve as much pressure as possible while
> still allowing the damper to do it's job efficiently.
> This is the hardest of the three to get right and
> guess what, it affects both of the two prior
> adjustments which means you have to go back and redo
> them.
> I realize this is a complicated procedure and it
> explains why I so rarely see a Rhodes with well
> regulated dampers. I have had some experience with
> tuning and regulating accoustic pianos and, correct me
> if I'm wrong, but you can move from one step to the
> next without constantly retracing your steps. Not so
> with a Rhodes.

[Zcott]

Thanks for the reply! I think I'll probably just steer clear of the dampers for a while...

[ursomyrhodes]

Dnarkosis.  Thank you for your post; it was very helpful.  Can you tell me why the third step is necessary?  I have pulled up on the damper arms under the damper rail in order to create more tension.  Why would you want to relieve pressure? 

[dnarkosis]

ledzurso,

This post is quite old, and it's been a long time since I went through this setup myself (and remember, I was not the author of the post).

I am assuming step three is to ensure all the dampers will engage -- or be engaged by -- the sustain rail with equal force, making the collective movement of the damper arms at initial engagement more uniform. What the author of the post does not point out is that -- it seems -- there may be little need to relieve that pressure on some of the damper arms, so, again, the point is to make the arms engage uniformly (and optimally).

[Ben Bove]

Just to add, it's a delicate balance and there are a couple things to think about regarding dampers:

they directly affect the feel of the action - the more damper tension, the harder it is to push the key down, as pushing the key down results in pulling down the dampers.

The less tension, the less likely a damper in the lower register will be able to stop a note from ringing correctly.

The ideal damper arms would be perfectly straight before being installed into the piano.  Then, the very end tip would be bent / adjusted for the right height on stopping a note, and not getting hit on a clean strike.

If all the arms are straight, when installed they should engage the damper bar all at the same height.  not always the case because bridle straps can vary in length or worn-outness, but should alleviate most of the struggle with maybe a few that need some bending.

[ursomyrhodes]

I understand.  Thank you both! 

The process, however, i am still worried about.  The first two steps may be checked immediately while adjusting, but this last step is to be done while the damper bar is removed?  How am i to know which ones need bending and how much? 

>This entails removing the sustain rail and ever so
> lightly pressing each damper at the base. Here you
> want to relieve as much pressure as possible while
> still allowing the damper to do it's job efficiently.

To be more specific to darknosis original instructions my question would be: how do you know the damper is still doing its job?

[Ben Bove]

By design from the factory, they were perfectly straight on installation.  The bridle strap gives the damper its curviture, and also its tension.

What I believe that 3rd step is getting at, is reducing some of the tension by bending the dampers forward "ever so slightly."  I don't really practice this method myself because in my opinion if the action is set up correctly, you really don't notice too much damper tension affecting the key weight.  But I believe this instruction was aimed at reducing that.

When the damper starts to "not behave properly" would be when it starts to visibly bounce when you let go of a key, and it's not able to stop a bass note correctly.  As the notes get higher the dampers are less of a concern, but upto about the C below middle C is when the dampers are taxed the most.

[ursomyrhodes]

Fantastic!  Thanks again!   

[dnarkosis]

Thanks for the comments, bjammerz.

[prtarrell]

Before adjusting the dampers the rest of the action has to be well regulated.  The manual briefly discusses how to bend the damper arms.  Yes, ideally every thing should be in a straight line but  this is often not the case.  The straight line of the damper felts with the damper bar removed is sort of secondary to other things.  Like:  when you step on the pedal, all the dampers should all move at the same time.  The pedal should move a bit before the damper felts move.  This occurs because there is free play (space) between the damper arms and the damper bar.   The keys should dip a bit before the damper felt moves.  This occurs because there is slack in  the bridal tape.   To test for correct and uniform adjustment of damper movement with the key and pedal,  lift up on the tone bar and the damper felt will follow the tine upward.  This is called damper follow.  The closer you make these adjustments the more the spring of the damper arm can help the action play and repeat and the better  the action will feel.