Looking for guidance/opinion on Fender Rhodes '74 88 Stage

[ijnad51]

Hello!
All psyched to get my first Rhodes. Was planning on getting a 73, but a seemingly mint Fender Rhodes Stage 88 from 1974 presented itself. Professional keyboardist owns it, and he got it from the original owner. Says its in perfect shape except for a finicky latch on the case. All components there.

Is $10 a key a reasonable deal? It seems that this is not a usual find in such great shape. Had planned to spend 600ish for a 73 in decent shape, but this is looking pretty appealing...

And then I'd just ask the over asked subjective question: Tremelo and Wah? I was thinking a solid ol' Cry Baby and the cute little Danelectro Tuna Melt - Opinions? Amp I unfortunately can't be in the market for yet, stereo isn't an essential factor right now.

This'll be gigging/some recording/college dorm piano usage.

Thanks in advance!

-Danji

[SWANG]

Seems like a reasonable price for a mint 88 Stage.  I know a bit about pricing since I priced around for mine for almost 9 months before finally purchasing.

Cry Baby sounds cool, but I must warn you: STAY AWAY FROM THE DANELECTRO TUNA MELT!!!  I know the price looks appealing and all that, but were you to put that thing in your efx chain from your Rhodes, when you turned it off and STILL heard the effect while the stompbox was off, you'd be saying to yourself, "self, I should have listened to that SWANG fellow."

Anyway, best of luck, and make sure you report back with an update.

[ijnad51]

Many thanks for the input SWANG! Was just looking around and saw that a few folks "swear by" these funnny yellow things - and it kinda looks cool  :wink: But warning well taken. Is this a problem when with a longer (more than 1 piece) effects chain or just always with the Tuna Melt? That is the one thing I've seen against it (and somewhat often) on the Tuna Melt.

Also, how can Danelectro be selling these things with non working bypasses? I know they're the consumer cheapies, but still....maybe some folks just don't notice.

What do you recommend on the tremolo front?

Any other insights into the pricing?

Just found a Cry Baby for $35. Not bad.

Thanks much!

Danji

[SWANG]

To be fair, I am rather new at this myself.  But here's the criteria I used:


To determine if you're getting something worthy of the price you're paying, best thing to do is try it out, and ask questions.  How much use has the Rhodes seen?  Has it been played extensively?  If yes, a) in what environment (smoke-free?  moisture-free?  on the road?) and b) what kind of maintenance has been done?  Sure, $800-$900 seems like a nice price for what appears (cosmetically) to be a great instrument.  But Rhodes = maintenance no matter in how good a shape it's in.  So do a bit of investigative work.  This site's FAQ is a nice place to start.  Find out the year your Rhodes was made and go to town.  


I have heard good and bad things about the Tuna Melt - predominantly from guitar players.  I guess if you wanted to take a chance on it, the worst that can happen is that you'd end up relisting it on ebay.  Be aware though that certain guitar stomp boxes (especially cheap ones) need some amount of mod work before you can run a keyboard instrument through them.  That said, the best case scenario would be to save your duckets and try to pick up a Rhodes preamp that has been modified and outfitted with a built in tremolo effect.  There are two companies that I have had contact with recently that manufacture and market these types of products:

Vintage Vibe (http://www.vintagevibe.com/): These guys are the best.  They know their stuff, and their customer service is outstanding.  Part of the reason my 72 Stage is sounding so good right now.  They may have some products which aren't currently listed on the site.  E-mail Chris, tell him what you're looking to do, and ask if there is anything not listed on the site that you might be able to take a look at.  

Speakeasy Vintage (http://www.speakeasyvintagemusic.com/):  These guys offer several options, but their customer service is substandard, so watch it.  Their products are well-made, however.  Here's one I was looking at a while back that may meet your needs: https://ssl.perfora.net/webstore.speakeasyvintagemusic.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=15454192f00572e/shopdata/index.shopscript



If these are not an option, I like what I have heard from the electro-harmonix pulsar tremolo pedal.  The new voodoo labs one sounded ok when I heard it as well.

Sorry this is so long.  I'm sure some of the other folks here will be at least as helpful.  Again, best wishes and have fun!  

[ijnad51]

Many thanks for your thouroughness!
The Rhodes preamp is clearly the way to go. However, since I'm definitely not going to be stereo for a bit, and am just kinda easing into this, I think I'd rather have a quick 'n dirty temporary solution for gigging and practicing - must not be an absolute dream sound (but good is fine! ). I also have been known to pick up a guitar, so doubling as a pedal for my danelectro '56 U2 reissue would be a decent fringe benefit as well. That's kinda why I feel a decent but somewhat cheap tremelo stomper would'nt be a bad decision in the long run.

It's a 1974, still Fender, and partly for that reason 880 seems not bad (less of these around, not?). Only had 2 owners, is in a studio, and looks really great, although I haven't personally seen it yet. Will be sure to check out the moisture issue in detail when I (potentially) buy the thing!


Heck, more gear is good, right?   :twisted:

Thanks again-
Danji

[HammondToby]

One addition to SWANG: there is also a preamp by Jens. To be found here http://tasteundtechnik.de/135501.html. I know, it's in German, but there are three soundfiles: 1. dry, 2. through the preamp, 3. with the internal stereo tremolo.

For good tremolo (if you don't go for the preamp), you can also look for a Fulltone Supa-Trem. It's NOT cheap, I know, but the sound is very good. Tried one, that's in the effectchain of a guitarplayer...

The price for the 88 is good, if you don't have to fix alot. Remember: if you want to gig with it: it's damn heavy, so try to convince your bandmates, that it's necessery to lug this beast around.

Best regards
HammondToby

[ijnad51]

HammondToby -

Thanks for the 2 cents. Coincidentally I speak German - no worries there . I'll look into those options as well.

As I understand it, there is really nothing to fix on this puppy. And I kind of trust the guy, as he's a professional keyboardist and records and gigs with the beast. As for weight, any rough pound estimmate on it? I realize this is a seriously chunkier piano than a 73, but I absolutely love the idea of 88, and this oppurtunity has kiind of fallen into my lap!

And I've got some big bandmates  

Actually, I guy I knew created a sic custom set for his 73 by permanently strapping a moving dolly to the case - went like cake for him!

Continued Thanks -

Danji

[HammondToby]

Hi Danji,

for the wight: a good estimation is 1kg per key ;-) But, if you can tilt this thing, you can move it by yourself (stairs omitted). You just have to have a dolly for transportation and a car, where you can tilt this beast into...

I would go for the thing. The price is unbeatable, if you have nothing to fix. I would recommend to talk to the seller, what he says about tremolo, other effects, amps and so on, 'cause it's better to discuss some things face to face.

If you want a auto panner/stereo tremolo, look for the Dunlop TS-1. I'm very pleased by the results I'm getting through this box. But for mono tremolo, it's a bit oversized.

Best regards and good luck with your new Rhodes ;-)
HammondToby

[dwilson]

Since I don't speak German, I ran the page about Jens' pre-amp through Google's translator. The result was a little...uh...quirky:

Further the usual commercial Preamps does not offer the optimal technical characteristics for the reinforcement of Rhodes steam turbine and gas turbine system Pianos. How does one get thus a steam turbine and gas turbine system Rhodes with adequate sound

Hmmmm...I couldn't find any of info on the "steam turbine and gas turbine Rhodes" in the History section. Does anyone have any pics they could post?  

[Mark II]

take off the harp cover.
you will find this:


it needs a regular oiling job. but dont use the original hammond oil. it will destroy your steaming machine right away after getting in touch with it.

[kitchen]

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   , I'm laughing my ass off right now !!!

[dwilson]

Thanks for diagram, Mark II - now I know why so many people prefer Fender Twins: you need something that loud to drown out the turbines!

[ijnad51]

Brilliant developments here, folks, thanks much!  

By the way, he's more or less just saying the usual - how to get a nice tremolo suitcase sound on stage without buzz through a normal amp? Their preamp. The Buzz bit became Steam when weirdly literally translated  Languages are great...

Anyhoo, picking up the Rhodes this week and wanted to bring up the question of amplifiers - is it worth it in your opinions to save up and find a good twin reverb, or are there other good stereo options around? Also, any other insights on good tremolo pedals? (I think I'm going that route as opposed to preamp).

Continued thanks - (and humor)

-Danji

[Mark II]

from http://www.tasteundtechnik.de/135501.html:




TRamp concept:

# tube driven preamp and EQ

# optical controlled stereo-tremolo effect in solid state

# studio suitable signal to noise ratio

# additional jack on rear panel for hooking up a remote switch controlling tremolo    on/off

# 3 avaiable output siganls: Stereo-Tremolo A+B/ preamp only output without tremolo effect

# 19' 1U rackmount chassis, 215mm (9 inch) deep, internal 230/115 volt power supply, AC-inlet

# optional: output transformer-driven XLR-jacks


I hope this helps a bit.
Mark II

[ijnad51]

Definitely looks like a nice piece of gear. But now I've got a question that's really going to show my ignorance on the subject: Do most people with a twin reverb use the built in trem with a footswitch on/off or do they use a trem. pedal or preamp as well?

And the one that's really going to embarass me - does the sound come out stereo from the two speakers? I think no, right? Thats why you would want to amps, if I'm understanding correctly.

What would people's recommendation be on a solid gigging/ light recording/practice amp, keeping budget in mind (although I know this isn't the spot to skimp on). Do most swear by the twin? I've also heard a lot of folks talk about peavey classic 30s, and the fender hotrod, musicman, etc... I know this is probably one people are tired of posting about, but just wondering...

-Danji

[Mark II]

Definitely looks like a nice piece of gear. But now I've got a question that's really going to show my ignorance on the subject: Do most people with a twin reverb use the built in trem with a footswitch on/off or do they use a trem. pedal or preamp as well?

I have never heard of a twin owner not using the tremolo but an effect pedal.

And the one that's really going to embarass me - does the sound come out stereo from the two speakers? I think no, right? Thats why you would want to amps, if I'm understanding correctly.

fender twin is mono, both 12inch speakers are driven with the same signal, like most of the guitar amps, real stereo amps are rare

Mark II

[ijnad51]

Right. Then I was on the right track after all.

What's the opinion oon a Peavey classic 30 or Delta Blues?

Continued thanks-
-Danji

[ijnad51]

Ok, not to be a complete annoyance now but let me add two more amps to the list for opinions: Peavey KB300 and Roland KC 500.

Or are you all just going to tell me to bite the bullet and find a twin?  :wink:

-Danji

[Mark II]

Or are you all just going to tell me to bite the bullet and find a twin?  :wink:
-Danji

No, I dont belong to this group who claims the twin to be used. But that's maybe because I never played my rhodes through :wink:. I use a Fender Champ 12. read more here.

I would try all the amps mentioned here and not relate on the user's opinions as taste is subjective. ask 100 people about the ultimate amp for a rhodes and u get 101 opinions.

And I would be carefull with keyboard amps as they expect to be fed with line signals. and a rhodes with out a decent preamp doesnt deliver line level, it more like a guitar level-wise. that's why so many use guitar amps and effects.

Mark II

[Spookyman]

I'm playing on a silverface Twin.

Why ? First, 'cause it has THE sound. Enough power, and a marvellous clean and dynamic sound.

Second, 'cause the price was correct.

I'm using it with the onboard tremolo of the twin. Ok, it's a mono tremolo (the twin is not stereo like the JC120 - 160), but it's very useable. No problem with it.

There is a couple of months, i had a Fender Bassman 100. Without tremolo. So then i was playing the Spin Acher tremolo custom pedal (all discrete electronic, point to point wiring) from Jacques Stompboxes. An amazing mono-tremolo, in the same vain than the supa Trem or other boutique pedals. A little bit expensive, but damn good. But useless now with my Fender Twin...

My next acquisition, a Vintage Vibe 1960's preamp. Like Swang    In combination with the Fender Twin, it should sound more than correctly...

[james]

As a keyboard player (which I'm assuming most of us are) I can't really justify spending more money on a guitar amp than you'd pay for Rhodes in the first place.  If you're willing to give digital options a chance, using a good amp simulator and running it into your keyboard amp can help get the tone where you want it.  The only thing missing is the tube preamp, but what the hell, you can get one of those pretty cheap....

[ijnad51]

Good opinions - this is in many ways a more complicated decision than buying a rhodes itself!  Many thanks - I've got a friend with a bunch of old tube amps (including a twin) and I'll go test out the rhodes with a bunch of options, just testing. Right now I've got a little fender bullet which will be adequate for practice for a while I suppose. I guess I'll keep exploring and waiting until one presents itself!

Whats the opinion on the newer twins and the reissues? Different tubes and sound of course, I assume.

And what about this red knobbed 1988 twin I saw? Any knowledge of that?

Gratefully -

-Danji