Escapement problem on 2 bass notes-any suggestions?

[pianotuner steveo]

When setting the escapement and timbre adjustments on my Mark 1, every key works well now except for the C and B in the bass just below the harp brace. If I set the escapement so that the hammers drop down below the tine, then the tine is too high too the pickup and the volume is weak. If I set the tine in the correct spot in relation to the pickup, the hammer tips (barely) block against the tine causing poor sustain and poor tone.

In acoustic pianos, adjusting the let off and /or adding paper punchings under the key fronts would solve this, but what does one do in a Rhodes? Shim the pickup up higher?  Cut the hammer tip down? The hammer tips are not longer on these keys, but when the hammer drops back down, they don't drop as far as their neighbors, and the pedestal bumps are in the same place as the other keys. I have no idea what could be causing this...

Any thoughts?


Steve O

[jim]

are the pickups perhaps bent? they often are.

what about a shim on the bass side? it'll bring all the other escapements up but...well, just a little.

[pianotuner steveo]

I tried shimming,but these two notes are in the upper bass so it didn't help-the pickups don"t appear to be bent. The real cause is the hammers are not dropping down as much as the others,but I can't figure out why.

I will try to shim the pickups up, then raise the escapement and see how that works, but again, I want to know what's wrong with the hammers.
It's weird.

At least I'm making great progress,this was a nearly dead ,stored in a BARN for 10 years unit that almost got tossed out...

The thing that amazes me is that the hammer tips look almost  brand new .

Steve O

[Ben Bove]

im trying to remember correctly, but your piano has the sloped key pedestals right?  I believe I worked on one where I had to move the pedestal bumps on a few keys because it was messing the escapement badly, on random keys.  Try moving the bumps forward.  This could also explain why the hammers sit higher than the others, if they're resting higher on a bump.

[jim]

bumpety bumpety...i don't like the bumps....

also, if it aint that, which it probably is...you could juts cut the tops off the hammer tips...make em shorter.
unless they are the real soft tips which they prob are..
so forget that.

[pianotuner steveo]

No, it's not the pedestal bumps. I removed the 2 hammer tips, and shaved a little off with my belt sander.I reglued them on, and it's quite a bit better,but still not perfect. This is a weird one.

Why don't you like the pedestal bumps? Just curious.They really lighten up the action.

Steve O

[jim]

i'm not into the bumps mainly because i've never played a rhodes with bumps that i've liked the sound of, and i've never had a problem with no bump action.

when the bumps are there, i just find that i can't really get into the tone or push it to bark like i want it to.

i reckon it's the lack of hammer swing that i miss. and i feel that i can't feel the weight of the hammer in my fingers as it travels up.

i like the mkV action a bit better....when the keys aren't broken!

my fave action is actually the 77 ish era with the felt on the hammers. and in my experience servicing rhodes's, the owners who love their rhodes's the most always have that era action. 77's have a tendancy to have awesome tines too.

[jim]

are you planning bumps for the 1973?

[pianotuner steveo]

I have already added the bumps and new pedestal felts. The bumps are in the same spot as on the other keys, but I may try sliding the  2 forward as Bjammerz suggested.(Yes,they are the sloped pedestals BTW) I have added bumps before to another Rhodes and didn't have this problem,but I've checked EVERYTHING else, so that may be it.

Other than that and a couple other voicing issues,this baby is really coming back to life. The Quadrapuss is nice,but I may have been able to achieve similar results with less expensive pedals-I didn't even think of that at the time.It's nice to have the stereo tremelo on a stage model.

I haven't received my 'new' tone bars yet,I'll keep you posted as to if they make a big change or not.


Steve O

[prtarrell]

Debris under the back rail felt?  Back rail felt folded over?  Has someone replaced the pedestal felt with incorrect thickness.?  Are the key sticks level with their neighbors just behind the center rail pin?  Are the keysticks and pedestals exactly the same size as their neighbors?  Are the keys even front to back with  their neighbors? Is there some glue on the underside of the hammer?  440  Phil

[pianotuner steveo]

No, I checked ALL those things. I will try the suggestion of moving the pedestal bumps to see if that helps, although sanding down the hammer tips helped a lot.

The problem is the hammers are staying up higher than their neighbors(closer to the tine) while the key is being held down.
Thanks for all the suggestion,though

Steve O

[jim]

are the hammers the same colour as the other hammers? like the same yellow?

[pianotuner steveo]

Yes,they are the same hardness/height.
The entire hammer (not just the tip) is higher than the neighbors.

They are acting the way they would if the key dip were too deep,but it's not.

Steve O

[Ben Bove]

if you've got a bump mod and the hammers are higher than their neighbors it just has to be the bumps too far up the pedestal... it isn't a uniform thing I would expect some to be different locations than others as the action / keys aren't a perfect lineup.

[pianotuner steveo]

I was thinking it HAS to be this since I have tried everything else!  I would move the bumps towards the back of the key, I assume?

Steve O

[jim]

yeah that would make a lot of sense if the keys were a touch furthur back than the others.
steveo you would have a tool for moving the key pins yeah? would that perhaps help? do the key fronts line up with the other key fronts?

[pianotuner steveo]

Yes, the key fronts line up with the other keys. Remember, I work on pianos for a living, I have checked everything. It HAS to be the pedestal bumps-it can not be anything else at this point.

Steve o

[jim]

cool.