How important is the lead?

[Finga]

This might seem like a stupid question and probably an easily answered one, but will the jack lead i use between my Rhodes and my amp or preamp make much difference in the way the piano sounds???

It just occurred to me, is it worth buy a really nice lead or are they all same? Will i hear a difference in tone or frequency range? I'm aware that there will be a difference between a really cheap badly made cable and a really expensive well made one, but will the difference only be how quiet it is and how long it lasts etc.?

I know you can get specific guitar leads (Fender do lots), are there specific keyboards leads? Will a guitar lead not sound good used with a keyboard?

I'm quite confused, i though they all just try to carry a signal as clearly as possible!

Cheers.

Finga.

[keysandslots]

Depends on the distance.  There's alot of crap out there about guitar cables and you can pay alot of money for one if you like.  Try to keep the cable between the piano and the preamp (if you have a Stage piano) as short as possible, and then, if you're running ten or twenty feet or so to your amp or mixer, just get something half-decent.  If you need to run anything longer than that, I would go balanced.

If you find a company that has a keyboard-specific cable, I would stay away from that company.  A Rhodes is just a bunch of guitar pickups anyways, so a "guitar" cable should work fine.

I've never been able to hear a difference in the frequency response of a cable, but a cheaper cable may give you more noise.

Randy

[Finga]

Exactly the answer i though i might get. I've been looking into the Fender Platinum  guitar lead and they describe it as if it will transmit specific guitar frequencies better than other cables, will give you better tone and gives you more sustain, i just don't how they reckon a lead can do that.

Cheers Randy.

Finga.

[Rob A]

The audio frequency range is nowhere near the frequencies where cable impedances become material, again, for reasonable distances as noted above. We could go into the theory, but even 20kHz is really low frequency in terms of cable reactance.

I like to spend money on cables with decent connectors. I'm very fond of right-angle Neutrik plugs. Luckily I can get house brand cables from some local stores made with those connectors cheaply, but I have to put up with their store name printed on the shrinkwrap.

[Finga]

Sorry, so what are you saying? You don't think it's worth buying expensive cables? Just cables with good connectors?

Finga.

[gunnar]

I used to get the cheapest cables but when I got my Rhodes I thought it was time to spend some money on cables and it really made a big difference on my set up, so I would recommend it.

[keysandslots]

Getting good connectors is very good advice.  Don't get the cheapest cable but don't get the most expensive either. A half-decent cable with good shield coverage is good enough.

Gunnar, when you say "big difference", what do you mean?  Big difference in what, sound quality, ease of use, lower noise?

Randy

[Rob A]

Wire is wire--most of the degradation in sound would likely be attributable to sloppy assembly. I just happen to like nice connectors, I think in most cases cheap connectors are acceptable too.

One reason why  like the good stuff--if you get a molded plastic connector, it's really hard to do a cable repair or rebuild. You pretty much need to throw that cable out. Investing the bucks in a cable with quality connectors means you can solder them back on if the need arises, or make a custom length cable with them should the need arise.

[gunnar]

Hi Randy, I meant sound quality: less hiss, clearer sound and less interference. I must admit that the old cables were really old and bad, so any new cables would have been an improvement! Still, it was really noticable, so I've decided not to get those cheapy ones anymore. I didn't get the most expensive ones either, just not the cheapest.

[Finga]

Randy you said that if you are running the cable for more than 20 ft you would go balanced. Would this really make a difference since the Rhodes output is not stereo? Can a guitar amp take a balanced input?

Finga.

[Rob A]

Let's talk about that one in some detail. Stereo is unrelated to balanced.

If an unbalanced connection sounds good (free from noise and interference), a balanced one won't probably sound better. If you are struggling to manage common-mode noise, a balanced line will help win the fight.

Balanced transmission lines will reject common mode noise much better than unbalanced. That's the "why" to use them. Noise from improper grounding is a separate issue.

Balanced outputs send two copies of the same signal (so not stereo), but with opposite phases. At the input end, one copy is subtracted from the other, so any noise that got introduced into both (common-mode noise) will be subtracted from itself, and you have a nice minty-fresh signal at the input, twice as much amplitude as either of the individual copies.

To go from unbalanced to balanced (correctly) requires a direct box (not just a cable with XLR on one end and 1/4" on the other). Direct boxes can be active or passive, but both do the same trick--copy the unbalanced input signal and flip the phase of one of the copies for reasons described above.

Unless you are feeding a balanced input (like a snake on stage feeding a sound board) you won't gain a lot. So to your question about feeding an amp with a balanced line, most often you should skip it unless you have a balanced line input. I always used to carry my own direct box when I was gigging, just to have a predictable way to provide the sound crew a clean, compatible signal from my rig. If I had a stage rig of my own I generally fed it unbalanced signal (worked in all but the most hostile environments--think neon sign transformers on your outlets, or worse, crappy dimmers)

When and if you do use a direct box, minimize the length of the unbalanced line that feeds it. (I had a 1-footer for the really dire situations).


Read and learn much more here: http://www.rane.com/note110.html
And vastly more here: http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/balanced/balanced.htm

[Rob A]

Let's talk about cables and noise. The cable is obviously not generating noise itself, so if there's a noise issue, any contribution from a cable is likely to involve a bad grounding setup.

Audio cables are generally shielded (see Rane link above). If there's a failure between that shield (sort of a wrapper around the bundle of wires conducting a signal) and ground, that failure can cause the cable to admit noise to the system. But the cable won't be causing the noise in any case, the cause is external, and the shielding failure has allowed it in where you don't want it.

That's one more reason I like good connectors on my cables.

[keysandslots]

Thanks Rob, that's more or less what I would've said.  Just get some half-decent cables, with reasonable ends, and you'll be fine.  I like to find something fairly flexible, 15 to 20 foot lengths, maybe Switchcraft 280s on the ends or something comparable and that's good enough for me.

Randy

[Finga]

Right okay cheers for that Rob. I think i get it all now, basically don't spend stupid money on a lead (because your unlikely to hear any big difference), but don't go really cheap either (because your likely to get noise and lead that wont last).

Cheers for the links as well, maybe a little deep for me in places!

Finga.

[Mattia]

I agree with you all... usually I make cables on my own, and I buy good, rugged connectors (full metal housing and possibly gold-plated jack) and standard microphone cable.
If you ask an audiophile (those people who spend all their money into tube hifi amplifiers) he'll say that even power supply cables are important, ad he spent 100$ for a 5-foot lead and the difference from a standard one is enormous... just don't trust him and save your money for what's really important.