I finally figured out the phase shifter sound I'm after

[keysandslots]

Two choices, either Joe Zawinul's sound on "A Remark You Made", which is probably a Mu-Tron Bi-Phase, or Joe Vanelli's sound on "People Gotta Move".  I have no idea what Joe is using, anybody have any ideas?

Randy

[LiquiChime73]

I'm pretty sure Joe Vannelli used a Wurlitzer on "People Gotta Move," but  I can't make out what effects he's using through the sound. The biting timbre just says "Wurlitzer" to me. Maybe you can narrow down the possibilities by finding out what phasers were available as of 1973-74, when the album was recorded.

[Jordy]

Two choices, either Joe Zawinul's sound on "A Remark You Made",

The one from "Heavy Weather" you mean?
The best phaser sound I've e-ver heard. Is there a clone or another alternative below $1000? I guess not.

[keysandslots]

Yup, the one from Heavy Weather.  Too bad the odds of getting hit by lightning are better than the odds of winning a lottery.  A Mu-Tron Bi-Phase would be a nice addition to my basement.

LiquiChime73, you may be correct.  I've been looking around the 'net for info on Joe's setup and have not been able to find anything.  I think I still have the record at home, maybe I'll see if there's anything on the cover somewhere.

A friend of mine did some copying for Gino in Toronto last year I think, maybe he has an email address for Gino.  A long shot but what the heck...

Randy

[daniel_muschinsky]

check out this guy: http://m.bareille.free.fr/biphase/biphase.htm

I'm gonna talk to him...

D

[LiquiChime73]

Randy,

There's an interview with Gino out there where he goes into some of the details about their setup in the early days. The one I'm thinking of was a video interview on a European talk show. You might be able to find it on YouTube. I vaguely remember interviews in print where Gino talked about those details, too.

Joe and Gino used to multitrack monophonic synths to build up chords back then. Not sure about what they did with their electric pianos, though. Gino seemed pretty proud (and rightly so) of the innovative techniques he and Joe used. I think some of Gino's albums received Junos or Grammys for their engineering, but they still haven't got enough recognition for their pioneering techniques in the music tech world at large. Shame.

And you know someone who worked with Gino? Cool. I met him at a CD signing at an Indigo bookstore in Toronto in 2003. He seemed to be a decent guy although he's clearly aware of his gift. He's got a deep vibe. His voice sounded as good as ever did, too. Much respect.

Back to the topic -- check YouTube for that interview and the Gino fansites around. You might also be able to write Joe's studio. He ran a studio in california but I'm not sure if it's still open. Last time I checked the website hadn't been updated in years. I think you'll find the answer eventually!

[The Real MC]

Zawinul use a BiPhase back in the old days.

I had flight time with a BiPhase and it definitely sounds like one on Heavy Weather.  Those old Mutron BiPhase makes the sound so liquid like nothing else.

[MikeMalone]

A Bi-Phase is expensive as HELL!!! That sound Joe got was great though...As far as great phased Rhodes sounds, I'd like to add Minute By Minute by The Doobie Brothers and Just The Way You Are (obvious, I know, but still impossible to emulate on any synth I own)...actually, the Yamaha Motif has a patch called Sweetness that nails these sounds to a TEE!!!!!!!!!!!! Best phased Rhodes I ever heard on a synth...but I'm still a Roland guy!   Either way, I dont think Michael McDonald ever gets enough credit as a Rhodes player...of course, the Minute By Minute sound might have been the brainchild of producer Ted Templeman (but we can't exactly seek out his advice cause he's currently not living)

[keysandslots]

Michael McDonald was a hero of mine back then, and you're right, he didn't get enough recognition.  I remember learning most of the songs on the Minute By Minute record, and back then I transcribed them (I didn't go out and buy the music).

I could get close to Michael's sound with my old MuTron phasor.  I have a Yamaha S90 that has the Sweetness patch on it.  Acutally, the Rhodes patches on the S90 are quite good (mine is sitting on top of my Rhodes so it's easy to compare).  I can get really close to the "Just the Way You Are" sound on the S90.

There's a few things on the S90 that are incredibly irritating (lousy user interface, sampled vibrato on the strings, etc.) so I can't recommend it, but some of the sounds (and the keyboard action) are outstanding.

I've been thinking about trying out the Boss PH-3.

Randy

[raemon80]

how much are they usually? I'm following one on eBay right now, but rocknrollvintage.com has 'm too.

[coachdobbs]

Ted Templeman is still around and he is working with the Doobie Brothers for the first time in over 25 years on their next album. Yes, I agree Michael McDonald doesnt get any credit for being a great WRITER on the Rhodes. He wrote so many good grooves on the Rhodes including "Minute By Minute", "It Keeps You Runnin", and pretty much most of the stuff off the Doobies 1977 album "Livin On The Fault Line" which has Rhodes on almost every track. The stuff Michael McDonald wrote wasnt the most complicated or difficult to learn, but very catchy. The intro to "Minute By Minute" is one of the coolest I have ever heard. Michael wrote that song along with Lester Abrams. As far as his tone I would love to be able to find the smooth "Minute By Minute" phase. I have the EHX Polyphase and I like it for more of the funkier stuff but not so much just the smooth phase. I would love to try out an old MXR Phase 90 or 100 but havent gotten a chance to yet. How do the Mutrons compare to other phasers such as the MXR and the EHX phasers?

[MikeMalone]

Is Michael McDonald gonna be on the next Doobies album??? That would ROCK! Also, speaking of It Keeps you Running, Ive seen a great live version on Youtube where he plays the funky intro on a Rhodes and it sounds great. What are those weird video game sounds they use for the intro on the album??

[coachdobbs]

No, that would be cool though! I wish they would all do a tour together again but he has a very successful solo career going on and the Doobies are doing quite well without him so I doubt that it will ever happen. That clip of The Doobies doing 'It keeps you Runnin" is pretty tight and I wish he still did it in his live concerts that way.  I like the way he does it now too, but its just different. He is definatly one of the most underrated musicians in the industry, and the Doobies are one of the most underrated bands ever. Its unreal that the Doobies along with acts such as Boston, SRV, Chicago, etc. etc. arent in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and acts like Madonna are  :x ... go figure. As for that "mario bros." tone on 'It Keeps You Runnin' I believe that Jeff Baxter probably used a Roland GR-500 guitar synth on some of those parts along with a Roland Jazz Chorus amp. I dont know what kind of synth they used but there are synthesized strings on the song. There is a little bit of clavinet in the song. To be honest there is a little bit of everything in that song! And the coolest part is at the very end when the song if fading out they throw in a little Rhodes solo. What a great way to end a cool song!

[MikeMalone]

Yes good point..and I totally agree on the Rock Hall of Fame thing!!! That is so ridiculous!! How could Madonna be in and not those people!!!???

P.S. A GREAT Michael McDonald clip on Youtube is him on the Jools Holland show recently doing It Cant Make The Love and What a Fool Believes just him on a piano and a guitarist. FANTASTIC!!! Check it out. He's also one of the nicest and most  genuine people in the industry (I have friends who toured with him).

[keysandslots]

It's nice to hear of other Doobies fans.  They're an interesting group, making the transition from rockers with Tom Johnston and the "China Grove" days, into Michael with some R&B and then back to rockers.  Even in the rocker days the songs had a sophistication that alot of rock bands of the era did not have.  Anyone playing in a rock band in the 70s did Long Train Runnin' and China Grove, I know I did.

I think having someone of Jeff Baxter's skill level in the band probably helped alot.  If you keep your ears open, you can hear Jeff on alot of other records, especially Steely Dan stuff.  Michael has helped out on other records as well, his voice is so recognizable it's hard to hide.  I liked his work with Kenny Loggins.

I hate to sound like an old guy (turned 50 today) but I ust can't get into alot of new music.  It's not that I'm stuck in an era or I just like old stuff (lately I've been liking salsa music alot) but there just doesn't seem to be the same character and depth.  I guess I am an old guy.

Back on topic a bit, I'm consider buying a Maxon Phaser (PH-350) and Maxon Chorus (CS-550).  Anybody used any of these?  They're a bit expensive, both are mono in, stereo out (not sure how I'm going to handle that yet) but the samples I've heard and the reviews I've read seem promising.

Back off-topic again (hey, I am old, I'm rambling), maybe I'll start a new thread about music heroes/influences.  I'd be interested to know who the people on this board consider their biggest musical influences (wouldn't necessarily be keybooard players either).

Randy

[MikeMalone]

My band does Long Train Runnin'. We also do Takin' it to the Streets and What a Fool Believes! LOVE The Doobies (and I'm 29). Gotta represent both eras. Michael McDonald made the Rhodes sound SO funky too! Great stuff. I also agree that today's music is pretty much soulless...too much business and "image" and not enough heart. I know there are still good artists out there but its just not the same...as for my favorites the Beatles and Led Zeppelin are the reason I got into music...keyboard heroes would be Billy Preston, Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles, Michael McDonald, Billy Joel, Elton John, Joe zawinul, Herbie Hancock, Greg Phillinganes, George Duke, Keith Jarrett, etc...but my 2 all time favorites are Chick Corea and Michel Camilo.

[raemon80]

is this still about phase shifters?  

[keysandslots]

Mike nice list.  The only person I would add is Rick Wakeman, I wa a big Yes fan in the 70s.

raemon, yup, it's still about phase shifters.  I don't think there's anything wrong with a thread evolving a bit, I might learn something new.  I'm still curious to know if anyone has tried the Maxon stuff.

Randy

[MikeMalone]

Add Jon Lord as well!

[MikeMalone]

I still dont have a phaser (planning on getting a Small Stone...but I do use my Uni-Vibe for chorus and it has a deep, rich swirl that is close to a phaser. It'll do for now.

[raemon80]

got a Smallstone, but I'm still looking to get a Mutron or Maestro.....which one, guys?

[gunnar]

I played a Rhodes with a Mutron once, but I must admit that I wasn't blown away by the way the two combined. It seems to work a lot better on a bass or a guitar (in fact, I love it!), but maybe I didn't give it enough time to really find the right setting...

[daniel_muschinsky]

I had a Maestroonce...

Great for clav, stringers, guitar and other treble sounds, but it seemed to take the warm low mids out of the tone...

The Smallstone is the one for me...

D

[Rune W]

My first post.. Great forum  
I use a MXR Phase 90, new model with block logo. That works for me.
I play my Rhodes in a Norwegian Steely Dan cover band, and the MXR makes my Rhodes sound great for that type of music. Mr. Fagen also uses MXR, but probably the script logo version. I think the choice of phaser must be a combination of taste and musicstyle.

[Jordy]

I really dig Zawinul's Bi-Phase, are there clones or really good emulations from the Mutron Bi-Phase?

[raemon80]

I played a Rhodes with a Mutron once, but I must admit that I wasn't blown away by the way the two combined. It seems to work a lot better on a bass or a guitar (in fact, I love it!), but maybe I didn't give it enough time to really find the right setting...

I haven't heard them (yet) but the guy who's willing to sell me his Bi-Phase tells me (of course...) that it's perfect for it...though I'm happy with my Smallstone, I wouldn't be the Gearslut that I am if I didn't want MORE.

[coachdobbs]

True dat... True dat.  

[gunnar]

To raemon80: if you have the chance to buy a Mutron, just buy it! They are so hard to get hold of that if you don't like it, you'll have no problems selling it again.

[raemon80]

To raemon80: if you have the chance to buy a Mutron, just buy it! They are so hard to get hold of that if you don't like it, you'll have no problems selling it again.

I'm still debating....I will know tonight  :roll:

[MikeMalone]

I would agree Raemon. If you can afford it, go for it!!

[bobfridzema]

I'm using the Line 6 MM4 cause of all the available fx and the ability to dial in the mixlevel. Love it
The phaser is based on the MXR phase 90, and the stereo phaser/panner is great too.