Vintage Vibe Black Beauty - Go for it?

[andi85]

Hi folks,
I just got somewhat curious about the Black Beauty from Vintage Vibe. Is it worth a try?

In that price range I don't see too many alternatives anyway: Speakeasy Stagebox, diverse "toob" preamps and the M-Audio DMP3. Maybe also a HK Crunchmaster, they are cool, but kinda different story
Considering these, the Black Beauty seems to be a good deal (the Stagebox, too). The DMP3 has two channels - useful for stereo effects - but the "toob" gear doesn't have any advantages over the other stuff. What do you guys think?

Do I need a preamp at all? I don't know. However, that consideration is connected to the hope to find an appropriate band project at home in which I can use the Rhodes as my main ax. For that a preamp would be good to have.

BTW: My Rhodes itself is pretty good. No need for grommets, tips, tines... only more competence for voicing / regulating on my part

[jim]

i reckon you should spend the money on a gun,only chance you'll have to buy one...in the U.S. :roll:

[andi85]

Good point. I already thought about that, considering that piano and keyboard players are very prone to be bossed around by their bandmates. A shotgun would probably fit under both the Rhodes' and the Wurly's keyboards without catching attention of the beholder.

Still, I decided against it. Too much added weight to already severly obese keyboards. Too prone to get me into serious trouble, even if I just wanted to explain to the bass player once and forever that you can't really play the Wurly standing, except you spend time and money on a longer sustain pedal cable.

So the question remains: Black Beauty / Stagebox / DMP3 / "toob" stuff?

[Kolbenschlag]

I've got the 'built-in' version of the black beauty.  It's the same wiring, but it's installed behind the namerail. I'm pretty well pleased with it, for the price.

I have a crappy amp, and with the passive signal, I was pressing my volume level way up to compete with a band, and getting TONS of noise.  Now, with the preamp, problem is solved.

Only thing is it eats the battery a little too fast for my liking.

[andi85]

That's the advantage of the Black Beauty: You can also power it from a 9V PSU.
I would use it to run the Rhodes direct to make life with multiple keyboards a little easier.

I was also looking at the little tube boosters from Thomas Reußenzehn, but I doubt that I really need a tube circuit to get a good sound. I suppose a good piano setup as well as "correctly" applied EQ and compressor might take me much further.

[Mark II]

will you play the rhodes with your hot rod ?

Mark II

[andi85]

I used to, and I still like it. For multiple keyboards on stage, however, it might make life easier to take the Rhodes direct, too.

[gunnar]

I just bought a behringer Mic 200  valve pre amp and I'm really happy with it. I bought it with really low expectations, given the low price (59 euro) but it really made my rhodes sound better, warmer and more balanced. Anyone else who tried it?

[keysandslots]

ART Tube MP, probably pick one up fairly inexpensively and it works fine.  The Black Beauty is quite reasonably priced but does not have an XLR in/out.

You can hear my piano and the Tube MP in this thread (look for the boomp links):

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=3926&start=0

Randy

[andi85]

No, I just tried an ART Tube MP (the smallest model) because I got a very low price at Musician's Friend. It does what it's supposed to do, but I wouldn't call its sound "transparent".
On the other hand, for $30 I won't complain!

Hey, Randy, I think we posted at the same time. Yes, I know, that's an advantage of the Tube MP. But, as I wrote above, I don't find it very transparent sounding and in doubt I would still need a DI because the ART doesn't have a ground lift.
Ok, I just listened to your recording...well, I think it sounds very good.

[keysandslots]

The comment regarding "transparent sounding" is interesting, I never really thought about that.  I guess for me, and where a Rhodes is concerned, I've been focusing on getting a sound I liked rather than the best possible "raw Rhodes" sound.

If I get a chance tonight, maybe I'll put the rhodes directly into a preamp I know is transparent, and listen with my Grado headphones, should give me a good idea of the differences between the two sounds.

Thanks!

Randy

[sean]

Don't trust your headphones!

The low end of the Rhodes can be muddy, but the headphones have small diaphrams that can make that problem disappear!

I say this because I love how my Rhodes sounds through my headphones, but when I yank out the cord, and listen to the amp, I am always grossed out by the flabby muddy low mids.  So I reach for the EQ to make it sound clear again.

Your experience with your preamp should not be cheated by headphones!  Try the preamp with your regular speakers (or even with your regular amp and speakers).
    -----     -----     -----     ------

Q.  Why do cheapie little preamps work so good??
A.  Because integrated circuits, modern transistors, modern power regulators, and all the other components are a kabillion times better than they were years ago.  Even simple preamp designs that are built with cheap components can sound pretty darn good.  (There is a very successful company that I believe is completely based on this theory:  Beringer.)

Years ago, the difference between the best and worst audio gear was astounding.  Now, the difference between the worst and the best is not as dramatic.  (A crying shame that the schlockstars of today get awesome gear to play with, but the Beatles, Crimson, Yes, etc. had comparatively crude gear.)

If you buy a cheap little preamp, it will probably have a plenty-high input impedance, lots of gain, and maybe even reasonable EQ circuitry.  This will probably work out very well with your Rhodes.  (Your likely complaint might be that it doesn't seem to have much headroom, and might even distort a little when you have it set for your normal volume, but you get a little energetic and try to play loud.  If that is a problem, get a more expensive preamp with a better power supply.)

I have a little Beringer mixer that I hoped to use as a keyboard mixer, but I quickly found that if I played a synth bassline with my left hand, and then mashed an organ chord with my right, the output got ugly.  The power supply could not handle it.  It could only handle one part (either bass or lead).

If I use my Mackie mixer, I don't have the same problem at all.  (Of course, the Mackie has a lot of advantages, not just the higher capacity power supply.)

[keysandslots]

Sean, I have only one piece of Beringer gear and it is junk, would never purchase from them again.  I trust my headphones very much, they are my reference.  If you ever get a chance to try a pair of Grado SR-325s (I think that's the model), do it, you'll be amazed.

My Rhodes runs through some fairly reasonably equipment but nothing high-end.  I have an old TASCAM 24 channel board, use a Harmon Kardon hi-fi integrated amp and run into some small Tannoy nearfields.  Other than some rolling off on the high end and a bit more mud (as would be expected), the sound from my Tannoys is similar to the sound of the headphones.

You should consider a better amp or better monitors.

Randy

[Rob A]

And just to complicate the picture some more, if you are listening to speakers in an ordinary sized room, the room will have natural resonances in the bass range (and elsewhere but the bass ones are the worst problems) that change the character of the sound. The way to avoid that is with bass traps. So don't trust your cans, but don't trust your room either unless it's treated and you measured it with an analyzer.

[sean]

The quality of the headphones isn't the issue, and I believe you that yours are awesome.  But no matter what you do, it won't "accurately" reflect the sound of your Rhodes in a room or venue.   It will probably be beautiful, but it won't match.

If the sound in your headphones is all you are going for, then fine.  QED.
But if you want the Rhodes to sound good in the room, or in a venue (especially past the first few rows), you need to test with open air movement.

The interaction with the room and the basic physics of the loudspeaker can dominate the accuracy, linearity, or perfection of the preamp.  This is where it is nice to have a good preamp with easy-to-use and effective EQ circuitry.

[Ben Bove]

I put a bass trap in my studio, but I still haven't caught the elusive fiesta bass.

[keysandslots]

Sean, as I mentioned, for my purposes, I didn't need any EQ on the preamp because I use the EQ on the mixer.  And my ratio of room listening to headphone listening is probably 50:50, although I don't bring the Rhodes to gigs anymore.

Randy

[andi85]

Ok, but apart from issues of bass traps, headphones and studio monitors: Is the Black Beauty worth it, or can I go for a little mic preamp as well?
Whatever, it will probably be a "lonely" decision, based on how much time and money there's left. Never mind... :oops:

[keysandslots]

The Black Beauty appears to be just a basic preamp, but for just over $100 bucks, it's a reasonable solution.  I would suggest a mains power supply 'though, replacing batteries constantly can be a pain.

A mic preamp is also an option, depends on what you want to do.  You definately need a preamp, so if you want something dedicated to your Rhodes, and not too expensive, get the Black Beauty.  If you want something you can use as a direct box and maybe for other purposes, get the mic preamp.

Not all preamps will help the sound of a Rhodes, I have a cheap stompbox preamp at home that didn't help my Rhodes at all, but the Tube MP helps substantially.

Whatever you end up with, let us know how it works out.

Randy

[andi85]

Yo Probably it will be a matter of how many dollars are left. And as it looks right now, they're getting more and more lonely on my account...

[Jordy]

What about the Electro-Harmonix LPB 2ube. They say it runs on a high voltage. (so no "toob"?)

This would make a great preamp for keyboards that operate at INTRUMENT LEVEL such as a VOX Continental or a Fender Rhodes, and no doubt cascading the gain stages would give you a nice growl, but it's going to make the B-3 preset on your Nord Lead sound like a real B-3 (franlkly nothing will).

[andi85]

Looks nice, too. I'm a little puzzled by all the stuff that's written about it, though
Hm hm hm...let's see.

[Jordy]

Looks nice, too. I'm a little puzzled by all the stuff that's written about it, though
Hm hm hm...let's see.

I think he wrote it wrong: but it's NOT going to make the B-3 preset on your Nord Lead sound like a real B-3 (franlkly nothing will).

[Rob A]

It will make it sound like three bees.




bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Jordy]

What are all you guys so mysterious about what is wrong this thing

[andi85]

Nothing. I was just a little confused by the quotation. And I also wondered how a 12V 1A power adapter and real 300V on the tubes go together => toob or not toob I don't know enough about tube circuits to have a valid opinion about that.

[Jordy]

Nothing. I was just a little confused by the quotation. And I also wondered how a 12V 1A power adapter and real 300V on the tubes go together => toob or not toob I don't know enough about tube circuits to have a valid opinion about that.

condensers lol I don't know

[andi85]

Hm...

The other idea I just got: Why not save for
- custom work
- custom casing
- complex electronics
- international shipping
- import taxes
and ask Chris from Vintage Vibe if he would build me a suitcase preamp with the stereo tremolo in a custom box - just like he's offering it for the Stage Vibe. That would mean saving a lot of money, so I could go with the Black Beauty for now anyway