Pickup/tine alignment

[Chris_2112]

Hello!  I just today purchased a 1975 Stage 73 and I'm having a little issue getting all of the notes to sound well.  For whatever reason, it seems that almost all of the tines are positioned to the right of the pickup instead of pointing towards the center.  I played around with the screws for adjusting the tonebar but it seems that, though I can get it a little closer by doing so, I am still pretty far off.  I think I need to repoint the tine at the pickup but I'm not quite sure how to get the tonebar loose or off in order to do so.  The bolt in front of the 2 screws seemed like the next thing to try but it was extremely tight and I didn't want to force it without consulting you guys.  It might not even help for all I know.  Any suggestions?  Perhaps there is a way I can shift the whole assembly (either the pickup assembly or the tonebar assembly) to realign them... Let me know if pics would help describe my issue better...

Thanks
Chris

[tomnardozza]

that's the bolt....i believe it's a 5/16".  that holds your tine in place.

[MikeMalone]

I've had the same problem Chris. I loosened the bolt (TOUGH WORK!!!!!). I had to use a vise but eventually got it. Had to do this to about 9 or 10 of them...then I realigned them. I highly recommend using trhe vise cause those things are on there TIGHT!

[jim]

and then make sure you put em on tight again. tightness helps sustain.
don't kill the bolt though.


although, if it's EVERY tine that's misaligned, it may be possible to loosen all the pickup screws and move their noses to point at the tines better., if you know what i mean.

[Chris_2112]

Thanks for the advice, Mike I'm pretty sure you mean to remove the entire tonebar and put in in a vice to remove the bolt, right?  I'll play with it a bit when I get home tonight...I like the idea too of repointing all of the pickups as about 90% of the tines are to the right, I'll let you guys know.  

This is off topic but I was unable to get 2 of the legs to thread into the bottom of the piano, they just spin like the threads are cooked.  Am i doing something wrong or is there some trick?  Seemed like a no-brainer to me but I could be missing something.  

Thanks again.

[garagebandking41]

L-shaped tines.

[tomnardozza]

..or remember that picture from an old post where EVERY pickup was adjusted to the tine before it!!??!!    as for the legs, take the mounts off and see if they were welded before....sometimes they're hard to get in & out because whoever welded them messed up the threads a little bit.  also check to see if the top of the leg is turning while you turn the leg or if it stays in place....sometimes those crimps get loose and you're spinning but the threads arent!!

[sean]

If the tines line up nicely with the slot in the tonebar (as seen from above, looking through the tonebar), then you probably don't want to adjust the tine mounting.  What I mean is:  The tine should be pointing in the same direction as the tonebar, if they are not, then by all means fix that.

To remove the tonebar assembly, remove the two screws and save the screws, grommets, and springs in a box while you work.  Put the little block that the tine is mounted in into the jaws of your bench vise.  The tonebar should sit above the vise so that you can turn the screw while you hold the tonebar in line with the tine.

This setup makes it pretty easy to prevent the tine from drifting out of alignment as you tighten the mounting screw.

Set yourself up with a little assembly line with beer and music, because this job seems to take forever.  This would be a great opportunity to replace the grommets!

If the tines are straight, but they are still mostly out of alignment, and the pickups are generally mounted straight ahead (not pushed to one side), then check to see if the pickup rail is out of alignment.  First, I would ask your Ouija board if your piano was ever dropped.  Or, take a combination square to check if the metal frame is square.  If not, start cursing.  (I would assume that this would make the two harp supports look twisted.)

Ya know, after taking a look at the guts of one of my Rhodes, I don't think it is likely that the pickup rail or the metal frame are dorked up.  So, I guess my previous paragraph is useless.

I think it is more likely that some fool tried to tighten the tines while the tonebars were still mounted in the piano.   The proof would be the mis-alignment with the tonebars (which you haven't yet confirmed for us, but...).

If the tines are mis-aligned with the tonebars, you should fix that instead of mis-aligning the pickups to compensate.

Tell us what you find out....

Sean

[MikeMalone]

Do EXACTLY what Sean said. I couldn't have put it any better...

[jim]

is it concerning that a lot of advice posts include suggestions that one should probably get high or drunk while performing repairs or playing the instrument?

or, not concerning at all perhaps.



L-shaped tines, oh yeah. :lol:

[sean]

Don't be concerned, Jim.  These are musicians!   A few beers is not unprecidented.

And I don't mean they have to hit the hard liquor; I mean, we are not airline pilots!

sean

[sean]

I prefer Castlemaine's XXXX over VB.  But what do I know, I also drink Miller Lite.

[jim]

oh wow XXXX that is BOGAN beer!!

yeah VB is actually pretty bad, especially if it's in a can and not mega cold.
"Coopers pale" is the way to go for the aussie stuff.
get somma that intaya!


or asahi, but that aint aussie,, that's japanese!

[Chris_2112]

I pulled a couple of the "crooked" tonebars and checked them against their tines to make sure they lined up, they were 100% even.  I did notice though that alot of my grommets (especially on the crooked tonebars, but not all) look like they were squished out of one side of the washer, looked alot like a herniated disk.  I rotated the gromets 180 degrees so that the higher side of the grommet was opposite where it was before and reinstalled the tonebar and that moved the tine much closer to center.  Looks like grommets might be at least part of the answer though it still seems like the pickups as a whole are pointed a bit crookedly.  I tried to get a picture of it but I couldn't get it to come out right.  I'll try again tonight with a better camera.

I drank some Troegs Sunshine Pils while I worked, good stuff.  Might be too much of a local beer though for anyone else to have heard of it.

[dnarkosis]

Grommets are just so cheap you really ought to go ahead and replace them all. Check out my blog.

[Rob A]

is it concerning that a lot of advice posts include suggestions that one should probably get high or drunk while performing repairs or playing the instrument?

You have to order your beer from Vintage Vibe, Speakeasy, Major Key, or CAE though. If ep-service.nl is in your locality, I don't have to tell you what to order.

[Chris_2112]

Your blog answered my next question...those parts looked generic enough, good to know there are other sources out there.  Thanks!

[Mark II]

If ep-service.nl is in your locality, I don't have to tell you what to order.

dutch fla, sweetest pudding I have ever eaten.   :wink:

Mark II

[Chris_2112]

*Followup*

Just in case anyone stumbles across this thread with the same question...Last night I loosened the pickups about 20 at a time and I was able to shift them in groups to the left, then tightened them one by one.  They're all pretty much centered now.  I do believe this thing was dropped at one time because of the pickup issue and because almost every other tonebar screw I pull out is bent.  

-Chris

[Ben Bove]

Well it is possible that the pickup rail shifted in the frame, however the tonebar screws shouldn't bend from being dropped, they're kind of "suspended" by the harp.  Usually if a piano is dropped, the Wood harp support blocks crack, or the namerail and case bend.



Tonebar screws were installed very poorly later on, depending on what vintage piano you have.  When the harps were outsourced to Mexico the holes were rapid drilled in poor conditions and rather thrown together.

[TeguhPS]

L-shaped tines.

ha ha .. :lol:  good one..