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Rhodes Mark V tuning & cleanning

Started by Kbjazzman, June 12, 2008, 05:29:34 AM

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Kbjazzman

Hi all
I just have a chance to own Rhodes mark V at my private studio. Now love it's touching very much. After checking the condition inside my unit.... it need a lot of cleanning and tunning on some key. Fork & tine get rusty. Anybody know the proper way to clean it + tune it?  I've to do it by my self Coz' in my area we have no capable tech guy.
Thanks in advance
K.

Mark II

hi, welcome in the neighborhood.

go here and download and read the service manual.
most things are explained, rest will be cleared in this forum.

@rust.
you might want to upload a photo. basically it can be said, that the tonebars will loose their coating when trying to get rid of the rust. so you might want to leave them alone as it is not clear how much the rust influences the sound.

tines are a little bit difficult as they tend to break when getting eaten up by the rust.

Mark II
Rhodes Stage 73 Mark II 1980 / modified Peterson Suitcase Preamp

Kbjazzman

Thanks Mark II
My condition is very serious (I think)... it's didn't leave me see any shiny part of tone bar at all. This unit was kept on the area that close to the beach. For the sound I think it's ok just only a few key that out of tune. Do you have some recomendation for quick adjustment ?

Mark II

depending on the state you might want to rethink your buy, a rusty tine will break more easily, and tines are awfull expensive.
in kerosene drenched sandpaper is said to be a good cure for rusty tines

check these posts:

http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=3998
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=51

@tuning:
any chromatic tuning device will do, some use the old strobe tuners, some like me use a cheap multi effect/amp modeling device (Behringer Vamp2) with built in tuner.

kind regards
Mark II
Rhodes Stage 73 Mark II 1980 / modified Peterson Suitcase Preamp

Kbjazzman

Here is my Rhode mark V condition







I've check another rust problem from your link but I think my is more serious than that but what surprise me is the sound of my Mark V still ok

MikeMalone

Speakeasy has a tonebar replating service. If ever there was a Rhodes in need of it, it's yours. It's a round $250 but well worth the money, IMHO, because the Mark V is so cool and rare that it's worth going the extra distance to preserve it. Plus, despite the fact that it sounds good now, I can only imagine how it would sound with new, shiny tonebars and the increased sustain that comes with em. Just something to consider...
1976 Rhodes Suitcase 73
1966 Fender BandMaster Blackface
1955 Hammond M3
1966 Wurlitzer 140B
Yamaha Motif 6
Nord Lead 3
Casio CDP-100 (pretty good Rhodes sound!)

Kbjazzman

Thanks Mikemalone
Replate tone bar service seem to out of reach in my country Coz' I can't fine anybody who have knowledge about Rhodes at all. Only normal tech guys that I can find not craftman at all. I'm interesting to do the dirty job myself (Get knowledge from friends and neighbor here)  Coz' this is mark V so I think it's worth to do by myself. I think the easy part with rusty tine problem I can handle it . I'm still not sure about sand off rusty tone bar.... Is it will effect the sound of each tone bar or not? or should I clean it with soft towel+ Kerosene is enough?

Mark II

where are you located ?

you might be able to find someone else who is able to replate your tonebars. I think Mike is right, your rhodes needs it, and it's a good investment for a Mark V.

How a replating influences the sound: I have no idea, the ones that have done the replating said the influence is pretty small, it's more cosmetic action.

you can either send your tonebars to speakeasy or try to find someone locally.
the origianl coating was yellow zinc, some offer a nickel chrome plating aswell.

these coating were made to protect the metal from rust and oxidation.if you try to get the rust off you will get off the rest of the plating aswell and the tonebars will oxidate again after a period of time.
Keep in mind that if you decide to replate they will clean the tonebars for you.

http://www.shopspeakeasy.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=154852278a38043/shopdata/0070_Fender+Rhodes=99+Parts/product_details.shopscript?article=0120_Tonebar%2BReplating%2B%3D28SE-TBRS%3D29


kind regards

Mark II
Rhodes Stage 73 Mark II 1980 / modified Peterson Suitcase Preamp

Kbjazzman

Dear Mark II
My location is in Bangkok, Thailand down here nobody have experience Rhodes that much. Thanks for your info. may be I should reconsider to do replate as you guys recommend
Best regards

MikeMalone

Yea you are far but I think its well worth the investment...if you feel that it's too much for you I'd be willing to take that Mark V off your hands... :wink:
1976 Rhodes Suitcase 73
1966 Fender BandMaster Blackface
1955 Hammond M3
1966 Wurlitzer 140B
Yamaha Motif 6
Nord Lead 3
Casio CDP-100 (pretty good Rhodes sound!)

Rob A

If there's a motorcycle shop locally that does chrome plating of parts, ask them about doing it for you.

Plating Rhodes parts is the same as plating any other chunks of metal. One of the steps in the prep is an acid bath, which should remove the corrosion quite well. Then if you go for chrome plating, further corrosion should be less of an issue. You may want to ask about your options to improve the corrosion resistance.

Ben Bove

The other option, though not recommend, would be to buy a set of tonebars on ebay that are in reasonable condition.  The mark V tonebars are slightly different and redesigned over the standard Mark I/II tonebars, but in this state it might be better just to get a used set for $40-$50.

MusicPartsGuru.com if you email, they might have a set.
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jim

i think you're probably better off spending that kind of money on as many new tines as you can get your hands on.
shiny tonebars will not help at all if the tines are rusted.

MikeMalone

From the pictures looks like you need both...it's worth it! You got a Mark V!
1976 Rhodes Suitcase 73
1966 Fender BandMaster Blackface
1955 Hammond M3
1966 Wurlitzer 140B
Yamaha Motif 6
Nord Lead 3
Casio CDP-100 (pretty good Rhodes sound!)

jim

i don't want to be like, evil guy or anyhting, but i reckon maybe you should part this rhodes out. :roll:  :evil:  :roll:

you may even make enough cash to buy a non rusted rhodes,

the reason being, mark V hammers are EXTREMELY rare. i mean EXTREMELY.
if you put them up on ebay, i for one would be bidding like a jerk to get them.

this rhodes is never going to soar like it should, i know i've tried to bring a similar one back to life to no avail.

not only are rusty tines/tonebars/pickups a problem, but it also most likely has rusted key pins (the pins that the keys sit on) which equals no chance of a nice action. as soon as water sits in the felts around the pins, it's all bad news.

never thought i'd suggest such a thing, but my experience with rust made me negative. :(

MikeMalone

You may be right Jim...but it still breaks my heart to hear it. I would kill for a Mark V! I played one a LONG time ago and it was a DREAM!! Plus I just wanna be like Chick! :wink:
1976 Rhodes Suitcase 73
1966 Fender BandMaster Blackface
1955 Hammond M3
1966 Wurlitzer 140B
Yamaha Motif 6
Nord Lead 3
Casio CDP-100 (pretty good Rhodes sound!)

jim

yeah when they aint rusty they can be like a dream. :cry:

and i know of a mkV in Melbourne that COULD play like a dream if it had three hammers replaced.

Kbjazzman

Quote from: "Rob A"If there's a motorcycle shop locally that does chrome plating of parts, ask them about doing it for you.

Plating Rhodes parts is the same as plating any other chunks of metal. One of the steps in the prep is an acid bath, which should remove the corrosion quite well. Then if you go for chrome plating, further corrosion should be less of an issue. You may want to ask about your options to improve the corrosion resistance.

This recommendation is very make sense to me Rob A      
Thank you for the tips. In my country we have this kind of service for sure ..... if it doesn't change the sound character of the tone bar & tine that much I'll give my mark V get clean up this way. For coating Yellow Zing how thick that I should ask my tech guy apply to all tone bar? (in micron unit)  Do they change the sound or not? or thicker is better. Coating process will help only protecting corrosion only right?

I've check internal wooden key bed of my mark V last night. It's serprise that wooden key are dry no water mark at all but I don't know why the tone bar & tine condition look urgly like that.


By the way Thanks Jim & bjammerz for your recommendation as well

Rob A

I think you have the right idea--plating the tonebars isn't really going to affect the sound, it's there to protect them from corrosion. A tonebar stores energy from the tine, and transfers the energy back when it's needed, so the mass of the thing is much more important that the few microns of surface coating. The factory used zinc, which is pretty cheap and offers minimal protection. The plating guys can talk more intelligently than I can about what would be better. You ideally want to get your parts in with another run they are doing and they may give you a good deal on the service that way--a lot of the cost is for prep and setup from what I understand.

sean

That salty ocean air likes to eat metal.  Ouch.  Well, your fuzzy tonebars are a testament to how well the tonebar coating works to resist corrosion.

I think the best route would be to find a junker rhodes to steal parts from, but that might take a few months to find in Thailand.  You will probably end up spending a lot of money to get new tonebars, grommets, and a few new tines.  I agree with Bjam that Mark II tonebars would be a simple swap.

But here is my crazy idea:  you could probably get the tonebars sandblasted and acid-washed pretty cheaply.  Then you could apply a few coats of primer and glossy BLUE spraypaint!  This would look cool and match the blue trim on the Mark V namerail.  You might even get an auto-body repair place to do the whole job.   (And if someday you decide that this was a bad idea, you could just replace all the tonebars.)

You might also get all the other metal parts (except the tines) sandblasted too.  That would probably be an easy way to prep them for painting (or whatever coating you choose to resist the humidity of Bangkok.)

Hey it looks like your Mark V might have the original folding stand!  Is that true?  If so, it would be neat to see some photos of how the stand works.  It would seem to me that the stand makes the piano more difficult to drag around.  Your reaction would be interesting.  (My Mark V doesn't have the stand.)

Sean

jim

coloured tonebars!??? :o  :o  :o
YEAH!

oh man, i want that.

Kbjazzman

Quote from: "sean"That salty ocean air likes to eat metal.  Ouch.  Well, your fuzzy tonebars are a testament to how well the tonebar coating works to resist corrosion.

I think the best route would be to find a junker rhodes to steal parts from, but that might take a few months to find in Thailand.  You will probably end up spending a lot of money to get new tonebars, grommets, and a few new tines.  I agree with Bjam that Mark II tonebars would be a simple swap.

But here is my crazy idea:  you could probably get the tonebars sandblasted and acid-washed pretty cheaply.  Then you could apply a few coats of primer and glossy BLUE spraypaint!  This would look cool and match the blue trim on the Mark V namerail.  You might even get an auto-body repair place to do the whole job.   (And if someday you decide that this was a bad idea, you could just replace all the tonebars.)

You might also get all the other metal parts (except the tines) sandblasted too.  That would probably be an easy way to prep them for painting (or whatever coating you choose to resist the humidity of Bangkok.)

Hey it looks like your Mark V might have the original folding stand!  Is that true?  If so, it would be neat to see some photos of how the stand works.  It would seem to me that the stand makes the piano more difficult to drag around.  Your reaction would be interesting.  (My Mark V doesn't have the stand.)

Sean

Very interesting about Blue tone bar idea Sean (Seriously if it's not effect the sound that much) I'll ask the shop about this option  :D By the way Yep!... my mark V is sitting on the original folding stand but it's pedal is missing. I'll take a photo and post for you tomorrow.

Mark II

hi kbjazzman, did you as you were inspecting the keys for water damage take a look at the key guide and balance pins ?
As Jim said in his second post there might be corrosion too.

Mark II
Rhodes Stage 73 Mark II 1980 / modified Peterson Suitcase Preamp

Kbjazzman





Thanks for remind Mark II
Here is the keybed condition of my mark V.I think it's still in a good shape (Even I didn't clean it yet)

Sean
Here is the original stand pic for your ref.


Ben Bove

Hey KB!  I forgot if you posted elsewhere, but I don't have a lot of date code / serial info for Mark Vs.  Could I get your serial number and 2 black ink date codes?  Thanks!
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Kbjazzman

Hi bjammerz
My mark V have a date code 3884 ..... Ummm I think  :