Tonebar Mounting Spring Configurations

[james]

Has anybody ever tried to document what kind of springs these are, where they came from and whether they have the same strength across the entire harp?

[Ben Bove]

Although I don't know exact specs or anything, I believe the escapement screw used the same, thick spring, while the tone setting screw (closest to keys) used thick spring in low, lighter in mid, then a thin blue colored spring in the upper.  Or perhaps it was thick low-mid, thin mid-high will have to check.  No idea about anything in regards to vendor, compression etc though.

[Jense]

I have an old box full of bits and pieces called *Replacement Parts Kit Part # 35-2000-000 which I am constantly using for my projects. For the mounting springs it has the following different compartments:


02-0022-000
Spring, Blue
Tone Bar Assembly Mounting
#68 thru #80 Rear

02-0014-000
Spring, Natural
Tone Bar Assembly Mounting
#33 thru #68 Front & Rear
#68 thru #88 Front

02-0006-000
Spring, Yellow
Tone Bar Assembly Mounting
#1 thru #32 Front & Rear

The blue ones are the thinnest and the yellow ones are the thickest. I used the def on the box to replace a few tonebars.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need pics.

Jense

[jim]

also, the mkV has green and red springs i believe!

[Mark II]

I have an old box full of bits and pieces called *Replacement Parts Kit Part # 35-2000-000 which I am constantly using for my projects. For the mounting springs it has the following different compartments:


02-0022-000
Spring, Blue
Tone Bar Assembly Mounting
#68 thru #80 Rear

02-0014-000
Spring, Natural
Tone Bar Assembly Mounting
#33 thru #68 Front & Rear
#68 thru #88 Front

02-0006-000
Spring, Yellow
Tone Bar Assembly Mounting
#1 thru #32 Front & Rear

which matches the springs in my piano almost perfect.
in the highest octave of my 73 key Mark II I find some red colored springs aswell. and some blue ones are on front aswell.

Mark II

[MikeMalone]

Jense thats awesome info! (says Mike as he's already putting it to good use.................)

[james]

Thanks, that's the kind of documentation I was looking for.  Now I'm trying to remember if I kept the springs in the same places when I replaced all the grommets a year ago....  :shock:

[Jense]

You're welcome  

Jense

[james]

So now that we've got the Blue, Yellow & Natural ranges sorted out for what I'm assuming is the Mark I era, what about Red & Green?  Can any Mark V owners out there verify where those go???

[james]

P.S. I'm asking because it looks like the harp on mine was updated with the Mark V springs, but since I didn't keep track of their positions when I switched out the grommets I'm a little screwed at the moment....

[Quatschmacher]

02-0022-000
Spring, Blue
Tone Bar Assembly Mounting
#68 thru #80 Rear

is this meant to be 68-88? Otherwise there's no info for the rear springs 81-88.

[Ben Bove]

I would assume so, he's referring to 80 as the numbering scheme on some 73's are different and don't run 1-73

[Quatschmacher]

cool, I thought so. The other thing which isn't clear is that #68 appears in both number ranges. So which is it meant to be? Two natural springs or one natural, one blue?

[garagebandking41]

After a few weeks with my piano in pieces I finally got to the grommets. My '74 had blue springs for the upper twelve or so escapement screws, and i'd say 20+ heavier springs for the bottom, they looked corroded so I probably cleaned off any color they had left, other than that, it was the same screw the rest of the harp. 73 notes.

[Mark II]

sorry for OT, but:
James, do you have 12 grands, if yes, then buy the still boxed Mark V from SE and take a look at the spring setting. It will for sure be original.

on topic:
common, where are the Mark V owners ?
We need your help.

kind regards

Mark II

[james]

I seem to have been contacted by many of the possible 2000 Mark V owners on Planet Earth, including one here in Santa Cruz (but I don't remember his name now and I never saw the piano in person!).  I really wish we had more than just the Mark V user guide as official documentation of the piano's features.

Here are some other notes on production:

There were 3 prototypes of the Mark V Pro 73 built, a.k.a. the MIDI version.  These went to Steve Woodyard (the developer), Chick Corea and John Novello.

One prototype of the Mark V Stage 88 may have been built, but if it was, it wound up in the dumpster.

According to John from Major Key, 600 of the 2000 Mark V's produced were shipped to Japan when Rhodes was shut down. On arrival they were retrofitted with the Pro 73 MIDI electronics, which had been manufactured but never installed.  At this point Steve and Chick are the only people we've seen with a MIDI Mark V, so it seems more likely that this was a plan on paper rather than something that actually happened.  I guess if Ben's database count hits 1401 Mark V's without MIDI, we'll know it wasn't true....

[Ben Bove]

I'll keep you posted!  haha.  1400 mark Vs would probably take to the end of my life, as I can only get the info when people either find this site or decide to sell theirs.

[james]

OK, now that I finally tore apart the entire harp I have my inventory.  It turns out that all of the yellow springs seem to have turned to a red-orange rust color with age, and the blue springs look more on the green side.  So based on the 88-key spec for a 73, here's my supply:

Spring, Blue
#68 thru #80 Rear

I have 34 blue ones. This only requires...13?

Spring, Natural
#33 thru #68 Front & Rear
#68 thru #80 Front

I have 86 natural ones. Just enough to cover the 84 required by this one.

Spring, Yellow
#8 thru #32 Front & Rear

I have 28 springs that may have been yellow at one time. 50 is a hell of a lot more than 28.  Why they would decide to use a lighter spread of springs across the harp, I have no fucking clue.  Too much sustain???

I'm actually becoming more and more disturbed as I look at the harp piece by piece now, since I wasn't really paying attention when I first replaced the grommets almost 2 years ago now.  One thing I noticed is that I still haven't replaced some of the grommets!!!  Unfortunately I'm going through the remorse of "looking under the hood" after getting this shop piano from Major Key, which has at least 8 bad tines inside.  By "bad" I mean old tines of theirs from test batches, none of which were ever successful as techs out there can tell you.  I've already had to replace tine #35 in the midrange, along with the #5 long tine and tonebar assembly that were missing completely....

I think it's time to talk to Speakeasy about that Mark V in the box.  I'm tired of all these headaches.

[Ben Bove]

Hahaha that speakeasy thing probably got some sealed moisture in it and it's rotted out!  At least that's what I tell myself so I don't dream about it.

[james]

Yeah, keep telling yourself that...except for the wood keys the thing is almost all plastic....

BTW, I ended up buying the $50 tonebar set from digmystuff76 last night, which is supposed to include all of the mounting springs & other hardware (minus tines, duh).  I figured it was a good way to get all of the yellows I need considering everything else that went with it.  Hopefully the previous owners of the piano he parted out didn't screw with the springs!!!

[shmuelyosef]

I'm just pulling apart a Mk I Stage 73 from week 35, 1973. Here is what I found:

Keys 1 - 25   All yellow springs, and this exactly corresponds with the tonebars that have the slot between the voicing screw and the quarter twist

Keys 25-53  All natural (unpainted) springs and this corresponds to tonebars with no slot and one quarter twist

Keys 54-73  Blue springs on the escapement (end) screw and natural springs on the voicing side.

This is contrary to the replacement parts above, but it makes sense that the springing would match the tonebar style change (for some reason??)

The spring wire diameter measures:
Yellow - 1.02 mm
Natural - 0.89 mm
Blue - 0.65 mm

This piano has mostly original parts...I don't think that it has ever been completely stripped down. I'm trying the McMaster tonebar screw and grommet replacements for the first time and it's working well.

[Emielskey]

I am going to take my newly acquired MKV harp apart this week, so I think within a few days I can tell you where what goes!

[Emielskey]

Hey everybody.

I just removed all the tonebars from my MKV, and I came across 3 types of springs, Orange, Red and Green.
The order of the springs? well, not clear to me! there is a sort of an order, but it is messed up sometimes.

8-21 Orange - orange (pickup side - keybed side)
22-64 Red - Red, with somtimes orange springs in between( ???why )
65-70 Green (only one hole per tonebar here)
71-80 Rubber

Can someone with a mark V please check his rhodes for the spring colors?
I wonder how the colors relate to for instance MK1 versions

[The Quote Train]

^ Mine are orange, red and the top end has no colour at all. Most of the colour has worn off on all the springs.

[Emielskey]

but what kind of rhodes (year, mark) do you have?

edit: it was also sometimes difficult to check what colour the springs have (had).

[The Quote Train]

Mark V 84

[Emielskey]

I think your top ones are supposed to be green
does your colour sections match my list (or sort of?)

[vanityduluoz]

I am currently restoring my first rhodes piano, a 1979 mark I stage 73. I am currently working on removing and cleaning the lower section (yellow springs), and oddly enough, I have found that there are a couple screws with two springs instead of one. I am wondering if this was intentional or simply a mistake when this rhodes was set up. Does any one have any thoughts on this? Have you seen this before?

[Alan Lenhoff]

Well, intentional or not, a lot of Rhodes have double springs on some notes.   I can share this anecdote:

Last weekend, I did a full grommet, washer and screw replacement on my (new to me) Rhodes.  One of the old grommets was totally pancaked -- flat, and sticking out far beyond the flat washer.  I replaced it, and when I tightened the escapement screw, I noticed that the new grommet was pancaked, too.

Finally noticed that this tone bar had two springs on it.  I removed one of the springs, threw another new grommet on -- and all is well.

By the way, I read a lot of accounts in the list archives about using the McMaster-Carr grommets in which people reported problems with them being too tight or having an inability to get sustain in the top register.  Glad to say they worked perfectly for me -- and looked just like the Speakeasy grommets I bought several years ago for roughly 6X the cost of the McMaster ones.

[miwimark]

Thats exactly what I have on my 1977 Mark I 73. Seems to be close to whats right.
Michael

I'm just pulling apart a Mk I Stage 73 from week 35, 1973. Here is what I found:

Keys 1 - 25   All yellow springs, and this exactly corresponds with the tonebars that have the slot between the voicing screw and the quarter twist

Keys 25-53  All natural (unpainted) springs and this corresponds to tonebars with no slot and one quarter twist

Keys 54-73  Blue springs on the escapement (end) screw and natural springs on the voicing side.

This is contrary to the replacement parts above, but it makes sense that the springing would match the tonebar style change (for some reason??)

The spring wire diameter measures:
Yellow - 1.02 mm
Natural - 0.89 mm
Blue - 0.65 mm

This piano has mostly original parts...I don't think that it has ever been completely stripped down. I'm trying the McMaster tonebar screw and grommet replacements for the first time and it's working well.

[The Real MC]

One prototype of the Mark V Stage 88 may have been built, but if it was, it wound up in the dumpster.

Stevie Wonder has that Mark V 88.  That is from Jim Williams at Gearslutz.com

[Tim Hodges]

One prototype of the Mark V Stage 88 may have been built, but if it was, it wound up in the dumpster.

Stevie Wonder has that Mark V 88.  That is from Jim Williams at Gearslutz.com

The Mk5's are a bit rare, but very fast and light. Chick Corea has the only 88 ever made.

Source

[virtualevans]

Can any one confirm where should I place the thinnest spring and the thickest , for example with the 73 tone bar mounting? Don't know exactly if the thinnest has to be near the key or near the tine. I understand that the thickest is a constant with all tone bars in an specific way. 

Please help with this..

[Ben Bove]

The thicker spring goes towards the tine, the thinner spring goes towards the back of the tonebar, closest to the player.

In this image, you can see the thicker spring with no color, and the red thinner spring on the back.  Your piano may have the thinner springs colored blue instead.

[virtualevans]

[quote a

The thicker spring goes towards the tine, the thinner spring goes towards the back of the tonebar, closest to the player.

In this image, you can see the thicker spring with no color, and the red thinner spring on the back.  Your piano may have the thinner springs colored blue instead.

thank you so much Ben!

Now I can continue with the restoration.   

Best Regards

[Alan Lenhoff]

I'm just pulling apart a Mk I Stage 73 from week 35, 1973. Here is what I found:

Keys 1 - 25   All yellow springs, and this exactly corresponds with the tonebars that have the slot between the voicing screw and the quarter twist

Keys 25-53  All natural (unpainted) springs and this corresponds to tonebars with no slot and one quarter twist

Keys 54-73  Blue springs on the escapement (end) screw and natural springs on the voicing side.

This is contrary to the replacement parts above, but it makes sense that the springing would match the tonebar style change (for some reason??)

The spring wire diameter measures:
Yellow - 1.02 mm
Natural - 0.89 mm
Blue - 0.65 mm

This piano has mostly original parts...I don't think that it has ever been completely stripped down. I'm trying the McMaster tonebar screw and grommet replacements for the first time and it's working well.

As long as we're re-visiting this old thread, my June 1974 Mark I Stage (with tonebars marked 1-73) is as-described above, except that the all natural springs section extends through key 60.  Starting at key 61, I have thinner blue springs for escapement (closest to the player) and thicker natural springs for voicing.

My piano appeared to have been in original (unteched) condition when I bought it a couple years ago.  So, for the benefit of the archives, it seems like there was some variation by year. (Or by assembler.)

Alan