Converting a Stage 54 to a Suitcase

[pianorocker]

So I've been lurking quite a bit for the past year or so, the Rhodes work took somewhat of a detour based on other things.  However, after having to sell my pristine Fender Rhodes Stage 73, I have since acquired a Rhodes Stage 54.  So far I've been working on the basic stuff (hammer tips, felts, grommets, cleaning, etc.).  It was in pretty decent shape internally (some dust, but not much serious mold/oxidation or anything), so I'm starting to think big picture.  Namely I want to transform my Stage 54 into a Suitcase piano.

I'm bidding and trying to get a Fender Suitcase bottom to start working on chopping for the 54.  That's where a lot of my questions are, so please bear with me and any help is greatly appreciated.

1)  I've been seeing a lot of places that the suitcase sides are glued on and may be tricky to take apart.  Of course, this has always been in context of working on the front baffles (I believe) since they aren't removable apparently. So, for those with a suitcase piano that have worked on it or retolexed it, is this the case?

2)  I know that I'll obviously have to relocate the locations of the sustain pedal hole on top and move the pedal mechanism, would this be pretty straightforward?

3)  Also, in looking at pictures of the baffles, would it be an option to simply trim the sides and middle than "compress" it in?  Or, would I be better off getting new baffles made/doing it myself?

4)  Final question is for the original Fender Rhodes amps in the suitcases, they have stereo outputs for external speakers.  Could I convert this into a stereo input?  I plan on purchasing the VV Suitcase Pre-Amp Upgrade kit with the 4-Pin out, but I was wondering whether I could also convert the 1/4" Stereo Out into a Stereo In.

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  I'm also to the point of retolexing, so I'll have to check on info on that because I've never done that before.  Also, anyone looking for Rhodes logos, legs, pedal, rod, or others parts I have another 2 "work" pianos that I bought for parts.  However, I surprisingly haven't had to use many.

[Tim Hodges]

1)  I've been seeing a lot of places that the suitcase sides are glued on and may be tricky to take apart.  Of course, this has always been in context of working on the front baffles (I believe) since they aren't removable apparently. So, for those with a suitcase piano that have worked on it or retolexed it, is this the case?

Both the baffles are completely removable, the front baffle (facing the audience) has roughly 14 screws which keep it in place all around the edge. The baffle nearest the player is held in using velcro tabs and some more screws too.

2)  I know that I'll obviously have to relocate the locations of the sustain pedal hole on top and move the pedal mechanism, would this be pretty straightforward?

Yep to shift it over you would need to cut another hold in the front of the case for the pedal to fit through, the pivot for the sustain rests inbetween two wooden blocks which are bolted into the bottom case, you would also need to cut another hole into the top of the case to match it with the 54.

3)  Also, in looking at pictures of the baffles, would it be an option to simply trim the sides and middle than "compress" it in?  Or, would I be better off getting new baffles made/doing it myself?

Personally I would attempt to have a new one created, they are very simple things to make but I feel that if you were to cut one down you might have problems with the speaker placement, I'll have to check this one out later (I'll provide photos)

4)  Final question is for the original Fender Rhodes amps in the suitcases, they have stereo outputs for external speakers.  Could I convert this into a stereo input?  I plan on purchasing the VV Suitcase Pre-Amp Upgrade kit with the 4-Pin out, but I was wondering whether I could also convert the 1/4" Stereo Out into a Stereo In.

If you're connecting a 4 pin preamp to a silver face amp cabinet, you can use the preamp 1/4 jacks for the input.  Alternatively if you're buying a cabinet with a black grill then there are 1/4 inputs on both the preamp and also the power amp (the slight problem is you would also need a 5 pin preamp, not the 4 pin VV sell)

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  I'm also to the point of retolexing, so I'll have to check on info on that because I've never done that before.  Also, anyone looking for Rhodes logos, legs, pedal, rod, or others parts I have another 2 "work" pianos that I bought for parts.  However, I surprisingly haven't had to use many.

Hmm this is very tempting, do you have a set of keys in good condition? Preferably 88 but I'm also interested in 73.

All the best!

Tim

[pianorocker]

That's great help about the baffles, I just won the suitcase bottom on Ebay so I'll likely see what condition they're in and if I mess up cutting it down I may have new ones made or try to make some myself.

I'm also wondering is the pedal mechanism different for a stage versus a suitcase?  I mean for a stage you have the push rod that you extend so that it's putting pressure on the mechanism in the piano, but I don't see anything sticking out of the Suitcase.

The cab I bought is a silverface with the 4-pin and two "External Outs".  So those can be used as inputs as well?  That would be great.

I have a set of 73 keys, however I would not necessarily say they are in good condition.  Basically, they'll need recapped.  However, the wood itself and everything else is in fine shape.  But the caps are not in the best of shape.

[Rhodesman88]

1)  Both the baffles are completely removable, the front baffle (facing the audience) has roughly 14 screws which keep it in place all around the edge. The baffle nearest the player is held in using velcro tabs and some more screws too.  I beg to differ with your statement.  You are correct regarding the front baffle..which is held in place with 12 screws; however, the rear baffle is built into the case...only the rear gril cloth frame is held in place with the velcro tabs.  I've just finished restoring a 1977 suitcase bottom and several of the machine screws for the rear speakers were stripped.  The baffle was not removable and I had to drill out all of the mounting holes and use insert nuts as a way to secure the speakers.  Actually, this is a better way to mount the speakers that the original comfigration.

Rob

[Rhodesman88]

Rather than trying to cut up a suitcdase bottom, why not build one from scratch.  It isn't that difficult.  You could used the factory bottom as a guide for the construction of your ""54" bottom and you could build it so both front and rear baffles were removeable.  I think you may have a problem getting 4 speakers in the shorter bottom with the power modules, but I would have to do some measuring to to see if it could be done.  All the hardware and parts from the factory bottom could be used.

[Tim Hodges]

I beg to differ with your statement.  You are correct regarding the front baffle..which is held in place with 12 screws; however, the rear baffle is built into the case...only the rear gril cloth frame is held in place with the velcro tabs.  I've just finished restoring a 1977 suitcase bottom and several of the machine screws for the rear speakers were stripped.  The baffle was not removable and I had to drill out all of the mounting holes and use insert nuts as a way to secure the speakers.  Actually, this is a better way to mount the speakers that the original comfigration.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Ah yes thanks for correcting me, I meant the rear grill cloth frame was removable rather than baffle for the back.

I agree about constructing a new one,  it might be a bit expensive though but it would definitely be an easier option rather than trying to cut down an old one.

Regards

Tim

[bumpyrhode]

Rather than trying to cut up a suitcdase bottom, why not build one from scratch.  It isn't that difficult.  You could used the factory bottom as a guide for the construction of your ""54" bottom and you could build it so both front and rear baffles were removeable.  I think you may have a problem getting 4 speakers in the shorter bottom with the power modules, but I would have to do some measuring to to see if it could be done.  All the hardware and parts from the factory bottom could be used.

If the depth (front to back) measurement is the same as factory I don't think you
would have a problem fitting four speakers in as long as front and back were in an X
pattern. I'm basing this on the face dimensions of a Rhodes satellite.

The real problem may be the speakers might be spaced too close together for the
science of sound reproduction. It might require wiring one pair in series and the
other pair parallel. I'm thinking along the lines of phase cancellation. I'm just basing
this on my extremely limited knowledge, so take it for what's it's worth. I would think
one speaker facing forward and one back should suffice.

Here's an idea. If you just use two speakers, one facing forward and one facing back.
Add a divider so you essentially have two cabinets in one. Make your baffle boards so
they are open to the rear of each speaker. That way the tremolo effect won't be lost
to either side.

Am I making sense?

 

[pianorocker]

Rather than trying to cut up a suitcdase bottom, why not build one from scratch.  It isn't that difficult.  You could used the factory bottom as a guide for the construction of your ""54" bottom and you could build it so both front and rear baffles were removeable.  I think you may have a problem getting 4 speakers in the shorter bottom with the power modules, but I would have to do some measuring to to see if it could be done.  All the hardware and parts from the factory bottom could be used.

Well, I actually just purchased one.  And figured that parts would be not only expensive to get, but difficult.  I haven't seen many suitcase sustain pedal assemblies up on Ebay for example. 

[pianorocker]

Rather than trying to cut up a suitcdase bottom, why not build one from scratch.  It isn't that difficult.  You could used the factory bottom as a guide for the construction of your ""54" bottom and you could build it so both front and rear baffles were removeable.  I think you may have a problem getting 4 speakers in the shorter bottom with the power modules, but I would have to do some measuring to to see if it could be done.  All the hardware and parts from the factory bottom could be used.

If the depth (front to back) measurement is the same as factory I don't think you
would have a problem fitting four speakers in as long as front and back were in an X
pattern. I'm basing this on the face dimensions of a Rhodes satellite.

The real problem may be the speakers might be spaced too close together for the
science of sound reproduction. It might require wiring one pair in series and the
other pair parallel. I'm thinking along the lines of phase cancellation. I'm just basing
this on my extremely limited knowledge, so take it for what's it's worth. I would think
one speaker facing forward and one back should suffice.

Here's an idea. If you just use two speakers, one facing forward and one facing back.
Add a divider so you essentially have two cabinets in one. Make your baffle boards so
they are open to the rear of each speaker. That way the tremolo effect won't be lost
to either side.

Am I making sense?

 

Hi,

Thanks for the responses from everyone, and sorry for the delay I was in New Orleans all week hearing some amazing musicians play.  Again, I just purchased an original Fender Rhodes Suitcase bottom and have unwrapped it and everything today.  In doing some research, I do believe that the dimensions will be entirely adequate for fitting the four speakers inside.

I have also been in contact with a friend of mine that is somewhat familiar with speaker/amplifier construction and the acoustics of it.  He agrees that rather than simply chopping the baffles in the middle or something like that and then gluing them back to together, it would be best to have two new baffles made.  He also brought up the question about what compacting the cabinet would do to the production of sound.  He said he wasn't sure, so I likely won't find out about that until I find a place to get the new baffles made.  But yes, right now that is one of my biggest concerns as I am not extremely knowledgeable about the acoustics that go into placing and separating the speakers in a cab.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I will be tearing off the tolex tomorrow and hopefully getting it externally chopped to the right length.  I was wondering how the sides of the cabinet are attached.  I plan on chopping the side that doesn't have the amp since I think that would be easier.  However, I am just wondering how the sides are attached and what would be the best way to get the one side off and then get it back on as securely as it was originally.  Any info or advice on this?

Thanks again!

[voltergeist]

There won't be much left of the original by the time you're done.  Use the original to get dimensions and just build a new one from scratch will be just as easy, and you can sell the original when you're done.  You'd just be cutting down a perfectly good cabinet for 4 boards.  Literally.

I actually have a suitcase pedal assembly I don't need.  And extra legs.

[voltergeist]

I like your idea, btw, a 54 suitcase would be cool.  (maybe use 10" speakers instead in the smaller cabinet?)

However, I hate to see a perfectly good suitcase cabinet cut up for no good reason.