hammond C2

[FanOfTheFunk]

i have a hammond C2. it has trek II percussion.

problem is ive noticed i have three note the warble. sounds like having water in your mouth and gargling very quietly. if i pull out the draw bars one at a time. i only here it on the first three.

the note are the same on both manuals, making me think it has something to do the the tone generator.

low C, the C two octaves up from low c, and the A, two ocatves above the lowest a.

the organ is pretty mint. still has the preset stickers, and paper work in the bench.

what is the problem? is my C2 going to die? should i not be playing it till i have it looked at? is it fine to leave it since it doesnt bother me?

[sean]

You have three specific notes that warble, and the warble sounds different from any of the vibrato settings, and you hear the warble while you have only the 16', or only the 5', and also when only the 8' drawbar is pulled out?  And also when you have all three of these lowest drawbars pulled out?  The warble only happens when you have the brown drawbars or the leftmost white drawbar pulled out?  

So, on one of the keys that makes the warble, you don't get any warble if you pull out only the 4' white drawbar?  And it happens at low volumes as well as high volumes?   Really?


Well, first let's hope that it isn't the Hammond.  Make sure that you are not just exciting a resonance of some object in the room.  I mean, let's be sure that you are not hearing a picture frame, the wallboard, or a lampshade buzzing or vibrating nearby.  Well, if you moved your Hammond two feet from the wall, removed your lamp, and the warbling still shows up at low low volumes, then I believe you that it is the Hammond and not a sympathetic resonance.  

Also, in a C2, isn't the tone generator suspended by springs when in operation, and if the owner chooses to move the organ, he is supposed to secure the tone generator with the four bolts from underneath?  I wonder if either your springs are resonating, or if the tone generator is still partially secured with the four bolts.  Also make sure that the back panel of the organ is not resonating.

If you are really unlucky, then it very well could be the tone generator.  There is a rare tiny chance that something might be causing those two or three tonewheels to wobble or turn sluggishly.  (And not affect any other notes?  Unlikely, but possible.)  Hmmm... could it be solidified old oil?  A foreign object?  A damaged drive gear?  Rust on a few tone wheels?

Have you been faithful about oiling the motors and the tone generator?

You have to decide if you want to take a look yourself, or bring it to a tech.

I think you should post to the hammond forums, and ask them, and then take it to a tech.

[sean]

I don't think you can pull the tone generator out of a C2 as easily as I can pull the TG out of my Hammond L122.

I finally found a photo of a C2 that shows the TG.
See http://www.botany.utexas.edu/mbrown/Mbrownhome/music/organ/kanreki.html  
Actually, AWESOME photos at the bottom of that page.  I like the shot of the run motor and the scanner vibrato assembly: http://www.botany.utexas.edu/mbrown/Mbrownhome/music/organ/P8043188.jpg

Those photos make it look like you can remove the TG just like I can in my L122... slide it out the back.  You would have to move that amp out of the way, but....  Uh oh: from Googling around, I get the feeling that you are supposed to lift out the manuals and drawbars to get at the TG from the front.  Ouch.  

Google also turns up a number of different Hammond Organ forums, anyone here know which one is the best, or which ones are good enough to join?

[FanOfTheFunk]

yeah, low and high volume.

with the tone gen. tightened down or floating it makes the noise.

i didnt think about the vibrato. ill have to see if it sounds like V1-3, or C1-3. maybe theres something weird between the vibrato/chorus to those notes. i think its unlikely but maybe.

i run a solid state leslie. a friend of my was over the other day. he hear it, and said his old 760 made a very similar noise on just a few notes like mine. when he upgraded to a 145 the warble went away. maybe its those freq. messing with the leslie somehow.

ill have to borrow a trek preamp.

as far as maintaining the organ. i do oil it. and there is writing in the back from the previous owner, i assume, of dates it was oiled.

this organ seems mint. no real cabinet damage. guts look good. still has the preset stickers. looks like its been well cared for over the years.

i guess the organ is almost 60 years old. could be time to just bit the bullet and bring it to goff. let them give it a once over. they are only about 45min from me.

thanks for the input!!!

[FanOfTheFunk]

the more i think about it, im not buying the solid state amp deal. i think it could be bad capacitors. they do dry out over time. at 57 years old it wouldnt surprise me.

ive had a vintage amp, and a mutron pedal both make a motor boat sound. problem was filter caps.

each tone wheel has a cap. probably whats going on.

my bud just had his A-100 re-capped by goff. the organ sounds awesome, but $500 and something bucks doesnt.

[sean]

You can take a look at the capacitors yourself, and then you will understand why it cost $500 bucks to replace them with new ones.

If you lift up that green mat that sits on top of the tone generator, you can see the array of resistors, inductors, and capacitors that they used to filter out the unwanted noise.  Quite a pain to replace them all.

Since your C2 was built ages ago, these capacitors are likely to be paper and wax.  They look about as high-tech as a tootsie roll wrapper.  None of them are performing like they were designed to do 60 years ago, and so some of your tones are probably not as pristine and pure as possible.  The caps can all be replaced with new caps, and your tone generator might sound detectably better.  (Your mileage may vary.)

I am skeptical about re-capping the TG, unless your organ sounds lifeless, uneven, or squirelly.  (Well, maybe the warble is squirelly.  I dunno.)

I assume that the $500 pricetag would also include re-capping all the amplifier sections and the power supply.  I feel better about the benefits of re-capping the amps and power supplies.  Do that for sure.

The re-capping operation might also identify other faulty components.  And when you are all finished, you will get an awesome-sounding C2.  Which is worth a heck of a lot more than the repair bill, and will bring you a whole lot of happiness over the next few years.  And the organ will probably last another 20, 30, or 40 years....



Anybody else on this forum have a Hammond that they got re-capped?
Anybody know which Hammond Forum we should join?

Sean

[FanOfTheFunk]

im on the fence about a re-cap TG.

my C2 is not uneven, and the 3 notes that warble are so quiet its something i could live with.

ive only heard 2 recap TG. both sounded great. one was an A-100, the other was a model A.

i was reading about TGs last night. i found that if an organ hasnt been played in awhile, a pickup can magnetize a tone wheel. this will cause a tone, along with the original tone. it will sound twice as fast as the tone wheel spins.
the tone wheel will demagnetize after its been played for a while.

sounds rare, but the organ hasnt been played in a while. maybe thats whats going on.

[4kinga]

Run the organ for a while.

Recapping is a *very* heated topic.  Lots of flame wars on that one.

The service manual states a liberal dousing of WD-40 on the TG to remove oil lacquers that build up over time. There's a fair amount out there on the procedure, so I won't detail it here.

Also, mix 1/2 and 1/2 tg oil and lighter fluid and put that in the tg cups.   Breaks up the lacquer on the threads and bearings also.

Remember, you have 1 generator.  The drawbars only pull the sound from a particular tone wheel.  With only the 16' draw bar out, run a chromatic scale.  Determine the actual wheel/wheels out.   I'll try to find the generator map that will tell you which one maps to which key.