Author Topic: Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range  (Read 2565 times)

Offline garagebandking41

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« on: July 03, 2010, 02:11:00 AM »
Was at a gig tonight, and low and behold, the last song we played I broke the very middle D on my '72 Fender Rhodes. If anyone has some tines around or from a scrap piano please PM me.

I'd like to get the same era tines, even though a new one might sound just the same with the right settings. Just want to keep her vintage. Thanks all!
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Offline jim

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2010, 02:42:42 AM »
same era tines will have the same sweet spot also, will line up better for your strike line.

Offline garagebandking41

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2010, 10:23:44 AM »
Yeah, stinks that none of these ebay sellers tell you where they got their tines too, makes it that much harder. Even vintage vibe, who wants more, doesn't give you the proper info.
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Offline coachdobbs

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2010, 01:44:27 PM »
I also broke a middle D on my '78 Rhodes and have yet to fix it because I have been meaning to ask: is there is going to be a noticable difference in sound between a new tine and getting an old tine to replace it? Im getting ready to record with it in a few weeks and I would hate to have a tine that sounded kind of funny, especially in that area of the keyboard where it is going to be used a good bit!

I broke the tine on my Rhodes the night before I was supposed to play one of my best friends wedding w/ it! We will just say it was a minor inconvienence to work around lol. Im just glad it didnt break during the wedding.

BTW, speaking of '72 Rhodes, I played a '72 Rhodes Suitcase one time, it was by far the most beautiful sounding Rhodes I have ever played (even better than my own  :oops: ). I had heard good things about that year for the Rhodes in particular and when I played that thing... wow. I really would love to have one.
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Offline jim

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2010, 10:53:24 PM »
the tines are a different shape and you may be able to see the shape in the ebay pic, unless they are not sending what they photographed.
older tines taper off slowly, newer taper quickly.

also you can get around the sweet spot on a tine being different by changing where the hammer tip sits on the hammer forward or back.
to find the spot, unscrew your harp retaining screws and brackets,  and play the bung sounding note while moving the harp back and forth slightly, if at any time the note comes alive with tone, that's where you want the hammer tip to hit.
then pull the hammer tip off, and modify to fit
(cut a little corner if it's moving back so it can sit over the back lip of the hammer)

........

well i just spent all this time trying to see if i could see what era any of the ebay tines where,
my eyes just aren't good enough, and the pics too far away.
I guess another thing to look out for is when people sell old tine kits & cutting guides they've found, like there's one from the 80's up there now,
the ones from the 70's have old school looking cutting guides.
I'm clutching at straws i know.

Offline jim

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2010, 10:57:02 PM »
Bjammerz, do you know when they changed?  or started changing i guess....

Offline garagebandking41

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2010, 11:01:11 PM »
I e-mailed vintage vibe to ask if I could get a tine from a certain era. And I got this nice informative reply. It kind of makes me wonder if the difference in the two tines is so small, that's really just a fanatical thing, like guitar players and getting the perfect vintage pedal. I figure if they can get me a Torrington I'll take it, but also buy a lower mid range Schaller just in case. SO I'll know if I'm one of those people who can "tell" the difference.

I mean, it makes perfect sense. If they are physically different they have different tonal qualities. It's just a matter of how different, and if it's noticeable to   the player. Regardless, I'd like a torrington. hah.

Quote

Hi Michael,
 
Thanks for the question, The answer is I would have to look at our stock and see what we have.  Let me ask you a question, would you know the difference if we sent you a tine and told you it was a Torrington?  The way, I can tell is by different tapers of the tine.  Just curious as we are very articulate here in our tines and voicing and building pianos from scratch or from the ground up. We use tines from all eras and even have to mix Ray Macs with later tines on early pianos when Ray Macs are in short supply. When all voicing is performed and we have it all set up right, you cannot tell one tine from the next regardless of the year, although obviously Ray Macs are usually easy to pick out from later tines due to their shorter ring time and earthier tone. If voiced properly you can blend them fairly well.
 
It is the pianos and the set up that differ in tone not the the tines, we have heard people talk about tine differences but in our experience you cannot tell and I would bet my reputation on it. All except for the Ray Mac that is.  We have proved this theory many times by putting an early harp on a later piano and putting a later harp on an early piano and they sound the same as well as mixing tines from different eras on a single piano. It all comes down to your set up and voicing. Pick ups can also make a difference also Tines from the factory were not all perfect a good amount had bad oscillation from improper swaging or mounting. All of this can effect tone, sustain and harmonic, so you have to compare apples with apples to get a true comparison and that is pretty hard to do.
 
 
 All the best, Chris
 
PS. I will look and see what we have.
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Offline Rob A

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2010, 12:30:53 AM »
That's pretty consistent with my point of view--there are definitely differences in tines, but differences in setup can cause much more profound differences in the tone.

I have a complete set of 73 tines from a 1970 that I'd entertain selling as a set.

Offline garagebandking41

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2010, 03:07:28 PM »
Well just bought and received a #3 tine from musicpartsguru. I took my old #3 tine which was too short to be in tune at F# and the others were all too short as well to be put in its place and cut that down to my middle D so i could still get a torrington in the mid range. And put the newer Schaller tine down at the F#. And to me they sound pretty identical. I'd figure the low range would be more obvious tonally still than the mid range, and there seems to be no difference to me. And now, I have all the original tines in the mid range, AND everything is in perfect tune. Hope this helps some people out in the future who are in the middle. And thanks all for the help and advice.
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Offline Ben Bove

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Looking for any pre-75 tines in the mid range
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2010, 12:46:43 AM »
I think Chris from V.V. hit it on the money... I have to say the difference between a Torrington and Schaller tine is not as noticeable, especially when it's put into the same piano with no other variables (the hammers, tips, and setup are the same vs comparing two different era pianos with a lot of internal changes).  I've come across a piano with mix-matched tines and it took a bit to identify the newer replaced tines (sometimes only by the color of the tuning springs).  They varied so much, even per batch order - tines from the same vintage in a different factory order might not have been made as well etc. so you can have a bad tine but right era (where Chris says poor oscillation etc.)

Jim is also correct that the sweet spot could possibly vary so that could be the difference in a replacement "spud" sounding tine versus an original in a certain era piano.  Initially when Schaller got the contract in Germany for the tines they manufactured the taper incorrectly and the tines were all relatively dead sounding when hit hard, the sweet spot was offset.  Apparently some pianos made it out the door before that was noticed I was told, who knows what era (probably a short window in '77ish but always a guess.)  So basically it's hit or miss but they're relatively the same.  Hey people can barely pick out a Nord in the mix over a real Rhodes haha.  

The biggest tonal difference I have noticed in tines (excluding 1960s), is when the tuning spring is further up the shaft on a same-length tine.  Sometimes you'll get a tine say a "C" where the spring is near the end of the tine.  The C# from a different batch, the spring is about halfway up the tine to make a C#, and the tine length is even correct just spring placement is much different.  The C has a much deeper bass sound with a spring near the end while the C# would be very mid-rangey.  So it's really a trial and error and I think you need a number of tines to swap out if you want to get really perfectionist on it.  But hey, each piano wasn't always built with that kind of intense care for each note.  If a tine wasn't behaving right they'd slap a 2nd mounting spring on there :)
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