Mark V Static question

[The Quote Train]

Hi guys,

My Mark V finally arrived. I'm quite new to rhodes (and amplification in general) so I would appreciate any help here.

I have the thing plugged into a tested and working Line6 Spider II 30w - http://line6.com/spiderii/30.html I'm borrowing this from a friend until I can afford something more suitable.

Every time I press a key I get that rich rhodes sound but there is a static sound in the background - the breakdown would be 85% sound 15% static. The static doesn't interfer with the sound signal, it's just there in the background.

Is this likely to be because it's a cheap amp that can't handle the frequency? Or a issue with the rhodes? I'm wondering if something has become loose because it has traveled a long way. The very bottom key seems to be softer than the rest too.

[Cormac Long]

Almost definitely because the amp you're using is not a guitar amp or one that has a pre-amp required for the passive output of the piano.

Update: Just checked that amp link... that looks like a guitar amp you're using and should have the correct pre-amp.. strange.

I had the very same kind of static issue as I was trying to connect my 1974 Mk1 to a pair of powered computer speakers that I would use for my synths etc. There was an audible buzz coming from the piano.

I ended up buying an el-cheapo Alesis mixer (€100) that had a pre-amp which was able to bring the Rhodes output up to line-out levels and it worked like a treat.

Of course it still could be another issue.. although I'd say a Mark V is likely to be in much better condition than most other models. If you can get a loan of another guitar or bass amp from someone.. it will answer this in no time for you if its the piano or amp.

Alternatively a powered DI box or a mixer (w/preamp) may help.

BTW: Post some pic links if you can.. so the rest of us can moan in jealousy.

[Rob A]

A good troubleshooting step would be to check thoroughly for loose ground wires. I think the damper bar is also connected to ground. The circuitry is pretty simple and passive--you should see a ground wire at either end of the harp as I recall. If all the mechanical connections look screwed down tight, then take a look at the electronics for loose/broken solder joints.

Do you get noise when not playing?

Do you get noise when activating the damper pedal?

[The Quote Train]

Rob, dresdner353;

Thanks so much for the replies. I'll have to organize borrowing another amp to test.

Do you get noise when not playing?

Initially I didn't think so but as I crank up the volume on the amp it's there at all times

Do you get noise when activating the damper pedal?

Will have to try. This is a little bit embarrassing to admit but I've had a hard time working out how the damper pedal connects to it  I haven't had much time to spend on it with work so I'll have to give it a good look this weekend.

Another problem seems to be that a few of the black notes really 'clack' back when they hit their resting position. I guess I'll have to remove the harp and see whats going on in there. Fingers crossed its not broken hammers from transit that i've been reading about.

[Rob A]

I am in favor of doing a general teardown if for no other reason than to see how things fit back together. You'll get a good amount of familiarity from it.

It's also a common problem after moving to have the damper bar get dislodged from theh mounting holes in the harp supports, then it won't travel freely. It's dead simple to fix though, and won't happen a lot on a piano that doesn't get moved.

Damper pedal is close to as simple of a mechanical arrangement as can be contrived: you have a metal rod that transfers the upward pushing motion of the back side of the pedal to a short dowel inside the piano, which in turn pushes up the damper release bar I was mentioning, which moves all dampers off their resting positions.

[pianotuner steveo]

A clacking noise that is ONLY happening on the black keys is most likely the back edge of the keytop hitting against the aluminum name rail. I would move the name rail and see if the noise goes away. That is the only thing I can think of that would not happen with the white keys as well.

[The Quote Train]

steveo - that makes sense - I've been putting my ear close to the piano and the sound does seem to be coming from the name-rail area. I'll check it out tomorrow

[The Quote Train]

Well, that seems to have solved it. Both screws on the name rail are now sitting 1/4 way out and the black keys have stopped clacking :\

@ Rob A - the sustain pedal now seems to work fine. You really got to shove the metal rod into the back of it and clamp it hard. Cheers.

Still yet to solve this static issue, from my inspection everything seems to be soldered in place. I found a piece of broken tine (possibly) stuck to one of the pickups, removed that (got excited that I'd found the source of the issue), but static still there  . I found the other piece of the tine in the bottom case behind a key. But all of the tines on the harp are in place. Haven't been able to try another amp yet.

Maybe I should post some close up hi-res shots of the electronics? You guys have much more experience with this type of thing than I do.

[Kbjazzman]

Did you check your cable yet ? I use to have some problem about the noise but after I check the cable and change it to a good one the problem is gone.

[sean]

Reading your initial complaint that the noise appears only when there is music playing... and you are playing through a Line 6 Spider... an amp that lives and dies by digital hash, I mean, DSP effects... one of the evil necessities for this type of setup is that the amp includes a... NOISE GATE.

This is always my gripe about "built-in digital effects."

When you play the piano, the signal triggers the noise gate to open and allow the music to be heard... and this also allows the effects to be heard... and this also allows the power supply noise to be heard... and this also allows the digital hash to be heard.... 

If you are playing alone, and you are sitting within 200 yards of the speaker, you can hear the noise. 

If you are playing with a whole band, or the amp is in the next room, or you turn the treble knob way down, you might not notice the noise, but... the hiss is still there.

...and it doesn't matter if you have the effects selected, bypassed, turned on, turned up, or turned down.  The effects circuitry sitting on the same circuit board, or just in the same chassis, drinking from the same power supply can ruin it for all their analog friends.  (Obviously, it is not impossible to engineer and build these hybrid circuits right, it just takes care and money.)


Before you do anyting else, plug your Mark V into an amp that is devoid of digital circuitry, and give it a listen.

Sean

[The Quote Train]

Hi Sean

Heres a very short clip I recorded to demonstrate the static (you'll also here a 'pop' in there too). The last bit of chord progression is stolen from an epservice youtube vid, but I digress.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/814289641099b41b/

the noise appears only when there is music playing

Can confirm now that the noise is always there, and gets louder when the amp volume is increased. Gets even worse when you increase treble.  

I'll definitely try the piano in another amp, just haven't found another amp to borrow as of yet. Ideally I'd drag the thing into a music shop and try it on a few different amps.

Did you check your cable yet ?

Yep, need to do that to. Although it is new.

[The Quote Train]

Alright, so it was the cable all along. Can now play at 100% volume with only the most minor hiss 

Name-rail / key hitting issue still present. If I i unloosen the screws and push the namerail towards the harp, the keys don't clack

When you draw it back towards the keys so it sits flush against the screws / wood, it clacks. 

[Groove4Hire]

On a couple of the Mark Vs I've serviced the hammers had sagged through time so that when returning to their basic position they struck the key with the underside of the hammer... Don't know if this is the case with your piano...

Alright, so it was the cable all along. Can now play at 100% volume with only the most minor hiss 

Name-rail / key hitting issue still present. If I i unloosen the screws and push the namerail towards the harp, the keys don't clack

When you draw it back towards the keys so it sits flush against the screws / wood, it clacks.