vintagevibe grommets / screws replacing kit: some questions / doubts

[solyaris]

Hi all

I'm restoring a 10-1979 Mark I, remained in a humid cellar for 20 years almost ...

Now, I got the vintagevibe screws/grommets replacement kit.
and I have few questions:

1. I noticed that these new grommets appear a bit "small" in the head-diameter / thin than original ones (see photo below, the new grommets are in the right)... these grommets are pheraps "less good / strong" than the originals... ?

2. screws supplyied in the kit appear to have a different screw thread that the original screws ... now I read in a vintagevibe explanantion that that these are slightly more thick and long to make more "grip" in the "used holes ...
BUT, I feel these a bit too much thick when I'm screw-in ... that's normal ? It's what planned ?

3. In the low octave (first 5/10 keys) the spring around the (keyboard side) screw is doubled (see photo below): I mean there are two springs twisted togheter ...
I presume this is to give a more hardiness / elastic power to the spring system... it's normal and I have to remount these as I found it ?
or this double-springs is useless with the new screws .. ?

Sorry, I suspect my English is a bit rough to explain clearly  this technicalities ... so I add some photos here below:









Anyway I thank you in advance fgor your suggestions.
giorgio

[SWANG]

hi.  i'm nowhere near as much of an "expert" as some of the other folks here, but i'll do my best:

1. the flatness of the old grommets is a good indication that they need to be replaced.  the vintage vibe grommets look how your old ones used to (presumably), and replacing them should improve the sound of your tines/tonebars nicely.

2. if you feel more comfortable reusing the old screws with the new grommets, there aren't too many reasons why that wouldn't work.  in fact, that is precisely what i did when i ordered new grommets for my piano a few years back.  however, i would trust vintage vibe.  they've restored many pianos, and the items they sell are top-notch, imo.

3. none of the spring washers in my piano are doubled, and it plays beautifully.  i would say this is not essential, but the best way to find out is to do a test with both standard springs and the doubled ones.  see which yields best results.

hope that helps...

[solyaris]

thanks SWANG! any suggestion by users did screws/grommets replacement using vintagevibe kit?

[parisiano]

Hi Giorgio,

How did you manage ?

I just received the same kit as you and I used the new gromets, the new screws, but the old slices. (I found the Vintagevibe ones too thin).

For the wood penetration I didn't encountered problem I used an automatic screwdiver.

[solyaris]

ciao

grommets & screws replacement have been successul. Now the piano sound like this:
http://solyaris4.altervista.org/in%20a%20silent%20way.mp3
http://solyaris4.altervista.org/rhodes-soundcheck-0-Track%202.mp3



giorgio

[Fred]

Giorgio,

 Glad your kit worked out for you! We use this kit on EVERY Rhodes restoration that comes through the shop.

 The old grommets available from parts suppliers where too thick, thus not allowing the upper register tonebars to rebound properly under a heavy blow. We also noticed the material was showing signs of aging (ie., cracking) very quickly. So, Chris began manufacturing this new kit.

 I would not recommend using your original screws with the new grommets, however... SWANG, if that worked for you on your piano, cheers! But, you may run into a problem of allowing the tonebars too much side-to-side movement, as the new screws are thicker where they sit through the new grommet.

[solyaris]

ciao Fred

yes I replaced old screws and grommets with these in the vintagevibe kit:
realizing the substitution have been perfect!

BTW, I have to thanks You, at vintagevibe, for ALL your excellent youtube videos ;-)
you won't believe,  but I found genial that particular video that show how to repair the wood keys action,
moving a simple screwdriver in the holes ... really genialand so simple!!!
I just few hours I made my 73 keys all acting correctly in mechanical mouvement...

so thank you again ... !

my best regards
giorgio

[GetWithTheTines]

The only problem I've had with the Vintage Vibe kit is that there seemed to be some inconsistency with the sizes of the screws and washers. Some of the washers go all the way to the head of the screw with no problem, while others don't reach it, even after screwing it back into the harp. The head will stick up above the washer when it's screwed in. It wasn't a big deal, because I just used some of the old washers, since they were still in good condition. Has anyone else experienced this?

[Cormac Long]

Had that problem also

I placed the screw and partially fit washer loosely through a the gap in a vice and then tapped the screw head with the rubber handle of the screw driver to just force the head the rest of the way without damaging the screw head. One tap usually did the trick.

I only experienced it about 15 times for the for 88x2 screws I fitted.

[rockstardave]

My 1970 MKI has new VV screws, grommets, and washers (as well as some other VV parts).  I am very pleased with the final result.  The screws are just a hair larger than the originals, the washers fit very snug on the screws, and the grommets also fit tightly.  It can be a bit of a struggle to make it all sit together perfectly, but the final results are excellent.  A tight fitting, stable tone generator is important for good tone and sustain.  The old parts will probably fit together easily and somewhat loosely, which is exactly what you don't want.  Replacing screws is just as important as the grommets.  Loose or bent screws cause all sorts of voicing problems.

[vortmaxx]

Hello,

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong place for this question.

I just acquired a sweet '80 54. Only has about a dozen or so notes that are really in need of some attention. I set out to give it a proper tuning and after reading several threads on here felt that replacing the screws and grommets would be essential to the process of tuning and voicing.

So, I just got my kit from VV and set out to begin the process. I have a group of notes around C below middle C (#28, I think) that have a "funny" sound to them- sort of a raspy buzz, almost like I'm getting two tones. I just couldn't get a clean tone out of them no matter how I adjusted the escapement or the voicing, so I decided to start with C#. The 1st thing I noticed is that the new washers generally wouldn't fit well around the screws, as was previously mentioned, so I just used the old washers which seem to be a little beefier and still fit well with the new screws.

I set the escapement as recommended using another tone generator bar, then set the voicing to where the tine looked about right in relation to the pickup. Now, the initial tone is better as there is no more buzzing/weirdness to the tone- but I have lost a considerable amount of sustain. The tone dies out after about 10 seconds, whereas the notes around it are still audible after 20 seconds. I played around with the escapement and the voicing screws, but I just can't get that good sustain back.

I am wondering if the grommets are to tight to allow proper resonance. My only other thoughts are that maybe the old springs don't like the new grommets, or that the old washers could be part of the problem, bu I don't want to go any further until I figure this out, so any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Matt

[Ben Bove]

When I have questions like this involving multiple parts, my suggestion is to take the time and swap out each part individually.

How does the sustain sound with the new grommet, then replaced with the old grommet? 
How does the sustain sound with the new screws, new grommet vs. new screw, old grommet?

etc. etc.

Basically you want to trial and error eliminate what is causing the reduced sustain, and there's usually one culprait.

[vortmaxx]

I guess my 2nd grade teacher was right when she said I'm not too smart.

I finally noticed that the neighboring front springs were yellow (closest to the keys- is this the escapement screw?) and from about there on up a brown, or natural colored on the other (closest to the tine). I switched them around, and that seems to be the solution. When I originally put the new grommets in it must have had a yellow spring on the front  This is #29 (C# below middle C), which the specs says should have 2 yellow springs, but mine does not seem to be set up this way.

That should learn me- look at everything twice before taking it apart. Then look again.