Mixer reccomendations

[pcmancini]

I am looking for some recommendations on an inexpensive 8 or 12 channel mixer.  I would like to be able to input a Stage Rhodes, a Synth, an EP, possibly a clonewheel, a CD player/iPod and a Mic.  Output to an amp or a PA, and a monitor.

What mixer feature do I need and what brands models are good (and bad).

Thanks in advance,
Paul

[Cormac Long]

Paul,
  are you using a pre-amp?.. cheap mixers can have noisy pre-amp stages. So its good to do this externally.

I've a cheap Alesis mixer at the moment with 2 XLR/Jack Inputs and 2 stereo line inputs. But the pre-amp of the mixer is very noisy. Its EQ is also noisy.

So I use a cheap Art Tube pre-amp and have it doing the pre-amp stage of my Rhodes stage piano. That is then fed into my Lexicon MX-200 effects. Then its stereo line out is fed to one of the the mixer's stereo inputs. If I run this signal to my monitors, its very quiet.. no noticeable hiss. But the sound is too bassy.. I need more treble and the front rail tone control is not enough. I seem to need some mid EQ enhancements to get that extra treble sound.

So I use the mixer to apply EQ enhancements.. reducing bass and adding some mid 2.5Khz. The mid adjustment adds some noticeable hiss.

I may look into a more expensive pre-amp with EQ or a dedicated EQ box. But I'm also thinking of getting one of these in the new year to replace the Alesis and stick with the Art pre-amp...
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/1622FX.aspx
.. it has 4 XLR inputs (w/preamp) and 4 stereo inputs with no pre-amp stage. Those 4 stereo inputs would handle the pre-amped Rhodes, my 2 keyboards and leave one spare for a mp3 player etc. If required, I'd use one of the XLR for a mic etc. The mixer also has a USB interface that can take 2 channels into a PC/Mac for recording. So it seems like an affordable option for me. I'm hoping it won't be as noisy as my Alesis, but Behringer are not exactly known for high quality mixers.

Reviews I've read on the 1622 have been quite positive. The main restriction is that the USB is only providing 2 channels into the computer. Some other mixers provide more channels.

See here for more details on a recent thread on recommended pre-amps. It probably has some relevance to your quest.
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=6243.msg30572#msg30572

I'd be interested to see any recommendations that may follow in this thread on good inexpensive mixers.

[sean]

I guess that I should start this diatribe off with a disclaimer:  If you are just looking to run one Rhodes and maybe vocals or an occasional guitar through your mixer, then preamp quality and low-noise should be your primary concern.  But, I can't think of buying a compact mixer without mentioning the following....


I believe that the CRITICAL feature on a keyboard mixer is a good robust power supply.
(The quality of the preamps that are built-in to each channel is second on my checklist.)

Most mixers with 8 or more channels come with EQ and enough sends and returns to be used as an effects loop and a monitor feed.  (So most other things on the checklist are met if the first two items are checked off.)

POWER SUPPLY?  WHUTTHA?
No seriously.  Power supply.

The low-end mixers with tiny wall-wart transformer and small filter capacitors can't always deliver enough smooth current for a keyboard rig.  If you overload the mixer's abilities, you will hear the flatulent distortion of one or more of your voices.  (It is not the musical overdrive distortion sound.)

Here's proof:  I own a little Behringer Eurorack MX802A.  It has a transformer in the power cord that claims two 17.5VAC outputs at 500mA, and the rectifiers and filter capacitors are inside the mixer chassis.  It is actually a pretty beefy power supply.

However, I can overtax the power supply if I put a piano sound into one input (Rhodes, Wurly, or really any synth lead voice), and put an organ (or bass) voice into another channel.  If I play and hold a four note chord on the organ, and then punch a few notes on the piano, you can hear the organ voice drop out or sag with a sputtering that is syncronized with the piano notes.

Okay, you have to be running the preamp gain reasonably hot, and drive a lot of low-frequency sound to create this problem, but this is NOT an unreasonable test.  Using an organ or synth bass or other "pad" sound behind a lead voice is a common musical situation.  Since you can do it with only two voices, it clearly indicates that you can't also expect to run vocals or a drum machine through the same mixer.  When you are trying to punch up your monitor mix and your main ouput to compete with a drummer, you don't want to be trapped by your lame mixer.

The only reason I went looking for this problem is that I thought I could hear the problem on the baby brother mixer (MX602A) in the keyboard room of a store.  

The Rhodes really isn't really a demanding source for a mixer as far as audio fidelity is concerned: the Beringer preamps sound fine with a Rhodes.  My Mackie 1402-VLZ PRO mixer sounds much better on vocals, but sounds exactly like the Behringer with a Rhodes.

I love my Mackie 1402, but it is much too big to sit on the side of a keyboard rig.  But since the Mackie doesn't have an external power transformer, it works out just as easy to manage as a smaller mixer that does have the wall wart underfoot.  The current version of the Mackie 1402 is also probably unfairly out of the price range for consideration here, but spending the extra $200 gives you a mixer that is worth keeping for ten years.  

Looks to me like the $100.00 Mackie 402 only has two-band EQ.  Forget that.  Too tiny anyway.
The $200.00 unit, the 802 looks great, except it has a wall-wart power cord.  Oh well.

So the lesson is:  test the mixer in the store before you buy it.  

Cheap and small mixers run out of headroom pretty fast.

Sean

P.S. - There is a chance that the headroom problem on the little mixers is not the fault of the wall-wart transformer and cheap power supply design.  It could be a power-regulator or power distribution problem closer to the op amps.  But either way, test the mixer with more than one simultaneous audio source before you buy it.