Wurli 112 worth the repair?

[Jezza]

Hey folks!  I was just given a Wurli 112, and I'm not sure if it's worth repairing or not.  Are these valuable instruments or just a first run oddity that nobody cares about?  How much do they sell for if they're in good condition?  It will cost hundreds of dollars and lots of time to get it working, so I'm wondering if it's worth it.

It was free, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.  Right now it's a free paperweight with lots of broken reeds, a quiet buzzy amp, and an action that needs work.  =-)

Thanks guys.

- Jezza

[Fred]

  They do sound really cool when properly regulated, though they are one of the toughest Wurli's to service, beaten only by the 112A and 120/700.

  Unfortunately, reeds are tough to come by. 120/700 reeds can sometimes be voiced in there, but not always.

   

[Jezza]

Thanks Fred.  Would reeds from a 140 work?  I might be able to get my hands on one of those cheaply.

[Fred]

You MIGHT be able to painstakingly voice one in, but short answer? No... unfortunately.

  We do want to re-manufacture 112 (and possibly 120) reeds at Vintage Vibe, but it isn't going to happen just yet. 

  I'd say hang on to it, though. (I think) They sound  beautiful when set up. Check out some of the videos on youtube. Different, yes, but cooool!

[Jezza]

Thanks again Fred.  I didn't realize you were from Vintage Vibe.  I'll hang on to it for now and look into the 140B that's local and for sale for fairly cheap.  The guys says all the notes work, so maybe that will be the main one and the 112 will supply the odd part.

I really appreciate your quick feedback.  I didn't expect anything so soon since this is a 55 year old instrument that was only made for one year.  =-)

[Fred]

No prob! The 112 won't lend much of a helping hand as a parts donor for the 140B though, maybe a screw, keypin, or hammer tip (cut down). Everything changed. Keys, action, reeds... Even the reed bolts have a different thread. But keep an eye out for reeds and then all is repairable ( sorry, none here :/ ).

140's are cool tho, closer in sound to a 200 than any prior 100 series, and parts are MUCH easier to come by.  Good Luck!

[Jezza]

That's cool.  I'll bet the working 112 reeds alone could nearly fund the repairs on the 140.  =-)

[pianotuner steveo]

Whatever you do, DO NOT throw the 112 out!
They are not the most desirable model, but  they are getting scarce.
The sound is not 100% identical to a 200 series, but you can still tell that it is a wurli.

I have a handful of reeds that will fit it. PM me if you want to sell the 112 CHEAPLY.

BTW, they were not the first model. They were the fourth, I believe.

(100,110,111,112) then 112A,120,700... And so on

[pianotuner steveo]

Also Jezza there are almost no parts that are interchangeable between the 112 and the 140. In fact, maybe none.

If you are desperate,you can swap reeds, but they will sound different,so it is not recommended unless you are in a jam. Other than that, I can not think of any parts that are interchangeable. The 112 action is very different from the 112A,120,700 action, and is again even more different than a 140 action.

Fred, just so everyone is clear, can you please verify that the difference in wurli reeds between models is the thickness, or is there something else different as well? I have always been told that the pre 140 reeds are thinner than 140 and 200 reeds. I assume this is why the early wurlis sound a bit more like a Hohner.
(I.E. Louie,Louie is a Hohner,but sounds like an early wurli)

[Jezza]

Somebody in London has a scrapper 112 and they want to sell me 15 reeds for $250.  It seems pricey, but these reeds are scarce and that's £153 converted.  Does that sound fair?

[Fred]

@ Jezza

  Sounds very steep, especially since reed blanks change throughout the scale. In other words, you can't take a bass reed and cut it to install it in the mid-range...

@ Steveo

  Yes, Wurlitzer changed almost everything in the reed from thickness, shape, and even length of a reed for the same given note, between models. Reeds did get thicker throughout production, even between models 200 and 200A.

 I have a service note that we all might find helpful in keeping the 100 series alive. Here is the complete text:

E.P. Note No. 17                                                                                       August 17, 1964

                                   ELECTRONIC PIANO REED INTERCHANGABILITY

The left hand column below lists groups of E.P. reed numbers. The right hand column lists the E.P. models in which the reeds are interchangable.

              Reed Numbers                                            E.P. Models
     
                 1 thru 64                                           140A, 145A, 720A

                 1 thru 64                                           140, 145, 720

                 1 thru 64                                           120, 700

                 1 thru 64                                           110, 111, 112, 112A,

                 21 thru 64                                         120, 140, 145, 700, 720
                                                                       
                 52 thru 64                                         110, 111, 112, 112A
                                                                        120, 140, 145, 700,
                                                                        720

PLEASE NOTE that the model 140A, 145A, and 720A reeds are NOT interchangable with any other models.

PLEASE NOTE that the same reeds are used on the models 120 and 700 as on the models 140, 145, and 720 WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE FIRST 20.

PLEASE NOTE that all models EXCEPT the 140A, 145A and 720A use the same reeds for number 52 thru 64.

With the following stock of E.P. reeds, every model Wurlitzer Electronic Piano can be serviced:

                                Model 140A  - One complete set  (64)
                                Model 112    - One complete set  (64)
                                Model 120    - Numbers 1 thru 51
                                Model 140    - Numbers 1 thru 20

 No mention of the 100, but I have seen an official picture of one. I currently own a 110 (which looks just like the 100 in said picture) and  a 111 (which is essentially a 112 in the darker finish, with the 110's amplifier)

Hope this helps!

[Jezza]

Brilliant!  I have been looking around for reed compatibility information like this.  Thanks so much.

[pianotuner steveo]

I agree, 15 used reeds for $250 is not a bargain.

[Rob A]

Excellent, I've made a sticky post in this forum with the service note, thank you so much Fred.

[Fred]

No prob, Rob

[Alan Lenhoff]

http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/msg/2320891821.html

Just posted:  $50 for a 112 with legs and sustain pedal. Located near Detroit.  Might be a great parts source.

I'd grab it, but I'm trying to play more and tech less...

Alan

[Jezza]

I'm still in the market for a bunch of 112 reeds, so if anybody has any leads...

[Jezza]

For what it's worth, 120 reeds will work everywhere in the 110, 111, and 112 Wurlis, not just at the top.  They are the same thickness but ever so slightly wider, so in the low and mid range they just need the edges to be filed down a tiny bit. 

Chances are that if you're swapping reeds you're also tuning, so the soldering iron and metal file will be handy anyway.  With that in mind, any 120 or 700 reed should work in any 110, 111, or 112 Wurli after a few minutes of careful work.  It worked for my 112.

[Jezza]

The end of the story - the 112 was worth it and restoration photos are in this thread:

WIP - Wurlitzer 112 In Progress
http://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=7431.0

[Jezza]

Hi guys!  I've had lots of people asking, so I finally got around to making a video of my fully restored 1955 Wurlitzer 112.  Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lPbxs515DQ

[pianotuner steveo]

Excellent job and nice playing, Jezza!

[vanceinatlance]

I was hoping a video clip of this would be posted soon. Great job and well played!! Thanks for sharing your journey with us all!

[DocWurly]

Jezza's experience as shared in this thread, as well as some direct advice, were incredibly helpful to me when I did my own restoration on a 112 last month.  Thank you so much, Jezza!!

I have a service note that we all might find helpful in keeping the 100 series alive. Here is the complete text:

E.P. Note No. 17                                                                                       August 17, 1964

                                    ELECTRONIC PIANO REED INTERCHANGABILITY

The left hand column below lists groups of E.P. reed numbers. The right hand column lists the E.P. models in which the reeds are interchangable.

               Reed Numbers                                            E.P. Models
       
                  1 thru 64                                           140A, 145A, 720A

                  1 thru 64                                           140, 145, 720

                  1 thru 64                                           120, 700

                  1 thru 64                                           110, 111, 112, 112A,

                  21 thru 64                                         120, 140, 145, 700, 720
                                                                         
                  52 thru 64                                         110, 111, 112, 112A
                                                                         120, 140, 145, 700,
                                                                         720

PLEASE NOTE that the model 140A, 145A, and 720A reeds are NOT interchangable with any other models.

This is a tangent in the context of this thread.  Regarding the line that I bolded above: Keep in mind that this memo is from 1964, and the 140A/145A/720A were the new kids on the block.  In fact, the reeds in these 3 models ARE interchangeable with all post-1964 models....They were the basis for the 200 series reeds, and any differences were negligible.  There is a revision of note #17 from 1971 that makes this clear:

[Jezza]

Original reeds for the 112 are extremely difficult (read - impossible) to find now.  I ended up using 120 reeds for all of my replacements, which as both charts above say are not a perfect match.  They're pretty close though.

It says not to file the reed, but to make the 120 reeds fit my 112 I had to file them down a little bit.  They tended to be a bit too wide so they would scrape the reed bar, so I'd just file the edges until they stopped scraping.  I also didn't have all of the correct reeds so I sometimes had to start with a reed 1/2 step lower and file the tip down until it reached the right length.  I was essentially manufacturing my own 112 reeds at that point, using the 120 reeds as a starting point.

The final result is good, and with careful voicing and strike point adjustment I was able to get all of the replacement reeds to blend in perfectly with the original 112 reeds.

Some time just AFTER I finished my restoration the guys from Klassic Keys and Morgan Music both told me that they had some 112 reeds.  If anybody is searching for them hit these guys up.  They may be gone by now, but it's worth a try...

http://www.klassickeysgb.com/
http://www.morganmusiconline.com/

Good luck everybody!

[DocWurly]

I did the same.  I found a very serious strike point problem in the F#-Bb range around 21 notes up from the bottom.  Hammers would hit right on the nodal points of 120 reeds.  Moving the harp helped, but then other hammers were out of alignment.  I couldn't figure out any way to adjust the hammer positions enough to fix every note.

[pianotuner steveo]

Filing the reeds weakens them and should never be done. You can file the aluminum pickup in a pinch if you need more room, but never file a reed other than the solder.

[Jezza]

It seemed to me like making a permanent adjustment to the pickup in order to accommodate an incorrect reed was a silly thing to do.  That's why I modified the reed and not the pickup, and I haven't had one break yet.  Fingers crossed!

[pianotuner steveo]

I see your point, but unless someone starts producing the older style reeds again (HINT) you may have to do this more often...

[Max Brink]

If anyone needs them I have a few dozen NOS 112 reeds in my inventory that I would be happy to sell for a proper restoration.